Your least favourite marque?

[gallondrunk]

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[Mr Lobster]

I used to be a Jap hater and tbh the modern stuff does nothing whatsoever for me (though that does apply to most new cars I suppose). But after seeing some of the older Datsun / Nissan / Toyota etc stuff on here and RR and having bought our Suzuki Alto which has really impressed me, I am converted to the extent that old Jap tin quite appeals.

[Negative Creep]

If there was an award for 'biggest loss of plot' then Peugeot would win it. The x05 and x06 generations were genuinely smart looking cars, even in basic spec. Then we have the 307 where things took a turn for the bland but, Lord have mercy, what are they playing at now?

 

 

 

 

Seriously, the new cars are fucking abominations against style. How can anyone possibly think that is a good look? Only good thing is they will all fall apart in a few years and will be binned as no one will want to fix whatever electrical fault has decided to occur that day.

[Milford Cubicle]

I think every marque has offered something that appeals to me in the past.One that I don't really 'get' is Volkswagen. They are quite reliable, but in my experience they are back-breakingly uncomfortable, stodgy to drive, badly equipped and more rust-prone than most contemporary cars. I do like old Audis a lot though, even though they suffer from the same washboard seats.I am not that keen on Fords either, there is something a bit dowdy and mass-market about most of their cars, enhanced by the cheap plasticky smell you get in most of their '80s and '90s cars. But I make an exception for their large RWD efforts - I liked my Scorpio a lot.

[andrew e]

You lot make me laugh, you'll all be fighting over anything despised so far in 2029

[Station]

Vauxhall seemed to go downhill when they started replacing the aged but tough and torquey 8v units for the ecotec. I suppose its a matter of preference but I find the older engines feel a hell of a lot better, and you don't need to rag the tits off them.In the past I've had a lot of fun tootling around in a very early Corsa Merit. I thought the high profile tyres and daft body roll gave it an almost retro feel on country roads. Then I replaced the broken rear coil springs with some from a '99 model and it just wasn't the same - firmer and a little less bouncy but dull as dishwater.

The Ecotec variants of engines have little in the way of fans. There are a few people who support them with the 'they have more torque', but they're lifeless. A bit of extra torque is what buses and vans have.I became a Vauxhall fan in 2002 when I bought my first Astra mk3. I had a raft of marques, including Fords (which never ever felt right) and VW's (which were slow and boring) and had some strange press-adoration because of the first Golf GTi (which still continues today even though the Fords and Vauxhalls are just as good build quality and more lively cars imo).

[Owain-328i]

Renault. 99% of modern French cars are junk, but Renault crap is just really offensive. Followed by Peugeot Citroen as horrid throw awy rubbish and way behind that is Voxhall.I'm not a Honda fan either. Civics are mainly driven by spotty little wankers and he rest......I couldn't even tell you what a current Accord looks like.For me, the manufacturer that can do no wrong is Ford. They're making a really excellent range of cars right now with build quality as good as you can reasonably expect, and they're so good to drive.

Amen!! Everything french ive ever driven has been a right horrible bag of turd, main thing i hate with them is super vague gearchanges and general rubbish gearboxes (even when new), and coarse unreliable engines. Small deignty pedals too.Ive loved every ford ive ever owned!

[pandamonium]

I like cars.I do not like household appliances.That is how I choose my mode of transport.

[Milford Cubicle]

I can't speak for the moderns, but older Peugeot gearboxes aren't bad, my 405 has done nearly 160k and the gearchange is still pretty slick if a touch notchy. Nothing beats a Honda for shift quality.The pedals are offset and fairly small, but I can still use them fine with size 11 chainsaw boots on.

I do not like household appliances.

Modern Peugeot petrols (well, the couple of 207s I've heard pull away) sound like household appliances, they make a kind of dull whining/mooing noise. I don't know how they've made an internal combustion engine sound so bland.

[Renault18]

You lot make me laugh, you'll all be fighting over anything despised so far in 2029

And I say amen to that.I've only ever owned Renaults - lots of them - in fact more than lots.I have however driven lots of other makes and cannot bring myself to be that narrow minded that I believe that any other particular make is "junk". If any one of my Renaults had an unreliable engine or had been shit, I'd have bought something else.That said, whilst I like Renault, the later R9s, 11s and the 21s were just crap and the early Meganes and Scenic are no better either.Oddly enough, what I'd really like is a Ford Transit diesel (not fussed what as long as it's pre 2000 shape), cos without doubt, they're the king of vans - there's also no way that anyone can accuse them of sounding like a household appliance

[Pete-M]

MG - but having done a great few hundred miles in a ZT-T 260 I seriously want one of those. Exception that proves the rule an' all that.I save the rest of my venom for my hatrid of the Mk1 Vauxhall Vectra. I can't think of a single redeeming thing about them other than they're dying off. Hateful lumps of squidgy handling, terrible riding, nasty to drive, unimaginatively designed crap owned by people who think they're great because they're not tragic on fuel. The mirrors are crap, the seats are crap, the headlights are crap, the gearbox is crap, the steering redefines crap - heavy when it should be light, numb when it should give messages, just the perfect example of how not to do steering. the cup holders are crap, the centre armrest thing is crap, the speakers are crap, the headlining is crap, the switches feel crap, the parcel shelves turn to fluffy crap, the carpets are crap, the little thing in the glovebox to keep the service history in is crap, the little plastic tool for taking the valve caps off is crap, the yellow labels under the bonnet are crap, the bonnet release feels crap, the back seats are uncomfortable, the buttons on the key feel crap, the horn sounds crap, the wheeltrims on the poverty ones look crap, the clutch action tends to be crap, the throttle pedal goes into snooze mode when you're doing 56 or 75 mph on most, the gearing is crap, the 2.0 16v diesels are spectacularly crap oil burning rattle boxes, traffic master is crap, the 'damped action' ashtray in front of the gearlever is crap, the jack is crap, the wheelbrace is crap, the petrol cap is crap, the rubbery lined box above your head is crap, the grab handles are crap, the rear headrests are crap, the dipstick is crap, the speedo looks crap and I hate every single minging inch of the bloody things.

[Cavcraft]

2.0 16V diesels are indeed crap, especially when the fuel pumps go and cost you a grand a time.It could just be luck but I've never had a major problem with Ecowreck engines and I'va had quite a few now, a fair amount of which had done large mileages.I always think their 'problem' was that they could never live up to the 8V's bullet proof reputation.Peugeots are another car I wouldn't be in a hurry to own: had various 205s, 309s and 405s and they're either brilliant or bloody terrible, hateful things usually the latter. I'd have a 205 again but not the others.We also have 206s at work and I can't find anything to like about them. Pedals comically close together resulting in a few accidents from hitting accelerator instead of brakes and we were 'lucky' to get the ones with green interiors that are vomit inducing at best. Also how do Peugeot manage to build in squeeks, rattles and clonks in to all their interiors so well?There is oe other make that I utterly despise and I cannot believe I forgot about them: Iveco. If ever a vehicle was made down to a price and not up to any noticeable quality at all it's Iveco. Absolutele and utter dogshit, they're are hopelessly unreliable, incredibly badly made and just a pile of wank.I've had wiring that caught fire, comedy electrics, back windows that fell out, a fuel pump on a brand new van that last 55 miles, self destruct seats and gearboxes and fucking hours spent waiting for repair and recovery.The ultimate in shite has to be the Iveco Cargo 75E14 with the asthmatic, fuel slurping shite engine. Mine broke down at least once a week (quite often more), consumed fuel like it was going out of fashion, caught fire when I was loading low flash point chemicals on it and then one of the headlights fell out and the gearbox went all on the same day.

[Chris_W_Q4]

SMART "For Two". Expensive. Slow. Rides worse than an SJ410. Understeer at 15mph in the wet. Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

[retrogeezer]

LOL @ Pete.

[Justin Case]

Anything with an electronic gizmo that can be boiled down to three letters For starters - DSG, DMF, DPF, ABS, ESP, EBD, ESC, ESR and countless more. They are either crap engineering (for want of a better word) solutions to problems that should have been ironed out at the stage that new greener technology was developed, or they make sure that the accident the happens when the laws of physics take over is more serious than it would have been.I think I've covered just about everything on sale today

[Guest]

If there was an award for 'biggest loss of plot' then Peugeot would win it. The x05 and x06 generations were genuinely smart looking cars, even in basic spec. Then we have the 307 where things took a turn for the bland but, Lord have mercy, what are they playing at now?

 

 

 

 

Seriously, the new cars are fucking abominations against style. How can anyone possibly think that is a good look? Only good thing is they will all fall apart in a few years and will be binned as no one will want to fix whatever electrical fault has decided to occur that day.

Couldnt agree more, I've driven 107s, 207s, and a 308, seriously underwhelmed by all of them. I will grudgingly admit that the petrol 207 is slightly less dire than the diesel, though it was 23 miles old at the time and the engine note was freaking weird.

[daverapid]

I save the rest of my venom for my hatrid of the Mk1 Vauxhall Vectra. I can't think of a single redeeming thing about them other than they're dying off. Hateful lumps of squidgy handling, terrible riding, nasty to drive, unimaginatively designed crap owned by people who think they're great because they're not tragic on fuel. The mirrors are crap, the seats are crap, the headlights are crap, the gearbox is crap, the steering redefines crap - heavy when it should be light, numb when it should give messages, just the perfect example of how not to do steering. the cup holders are crap, the centre armrest thing is crap, the speakers are crap, the headlining is crap, the switches feel crap, the parcel shelves turn to fluffy crap, the carpets are crap, the little thing in the glovebox to keep the service history in is crap, the little plastic tool for taking the valve caps off is crap, the yellow labels under the bonnet are crap, the bonnet release feels crap, the back seats are uncomfortable, the buttons on the key feel crap, the horn sounds crap, the wheeltrims on the poverty ones look crap, the clutch action tends to be crap, the throttle pedal goes into snooze mode when you're doing 56 or 75 mph on most, the gearing is crap, the 2.0 16v diesels are spectacularly crap oil burning rattle boxes, traffic master is crap, the 'damped action' ashtray in front of the gearlever is crap, the jack is crap, the wheelbrace is crap, the petrol cap is crap, the rubbery lined box above your head is crap, the grab handles are crap, the rear headrests are crap, the dipstick is crap, the speedo looks crap.......

Apart from those things they are fantastic aren't they Pete?

[pompei]

C'mon Pete, get off the fence, do you like them or not?

[Guest]

To be fair on the Vectra MK1, I was briefly driven around in a V6 one and thought it was quite nice.

[pompei]

I have to agree about the Zafira - had a hire one a couple of years ago, and it was the worst thing I'd driven in years.Mrs P likes Mazda 6's. I hate them. Uncomfortable chairs apparently designed for midgets with a prolapsed disc, ridiculous driving position, low rent interior, the glove box edge jammed against your knees if someone is in the rear, controls (especially the stereo) designed by an drug addled orang-utan, out of reach and eyeline, the visibility of a submarine, coarse slow and unresponsive engine, slobbery numb brakes, plug ugly looks ...Fugging horrible thing. :evil:Makes me wonder if it it is so bad (and the 3 is awful as well) what is the RX8 like?

[garethj]

Every marque can offer something, it's quite easy to hate BMWs because of the tossers who buy into the "ultimate driving machine" nonsense but they did some cool stuff in the 60s and their 700 Coupe with a 2 cylinder engine in the rear would be a honey.With the same sort of idea, is there a marque that you like every model? I can't think of one, they've all produced dire stuff over the years

[pogweasel]

On a personal note I would love to see BMW suffer most

... BMW...

BMWs because of the tossers who buy into the "ultimate driving machine" nonsense

s'Ok. I'll get my coat....

[Volksy]

I think the worst 'new' car I've driven was a Chevrolet Lacetti. I got lent one from the manufacturer as part of their marketing campaign. The Idea was that I let as many people drive it as I could. I didn't, well apart from my dad, who gained it for the entire month that I had it. It was awful. Thirsty, uncomfortable, noisy.....

[M'coli]

I agree somewhat with Pete about MG, but I hold backl most vitriol for BMW because of the twats that drive them. One passed me today, an M5, and it had the number plate M5FUO...however I read it as M5 FUD,and being a Scot thought that the FUD part was very apt (as mentioned in another thread).

[Pete-M]

To be fair on the Vectra MK1, I was briefly driven around in a V6 one and thought it was quite nice.

The V6 engine is a bloody good lump, unfortunately it's attached to a lump of crap, and the SRi V6 is slightly less bouncily suspended crap with added ride harshness. V6 manuals have a bloody awful shift as well.

[Pete-M]

I think the worst 'new' car I've driven was a Chevrolet Lacetti. I got lent one from the manufacturer as part of their marketing campaign. The Idea was that I let as many people drive it as I could. I didn't, well apart from my dad, who gained it for the entire month that I had it. It was awful. Thirsty, uncomfortable, noisy.....

Oh, I drove a Daewoo Tacoma last year that was spectacularly dire. Bought it from two wrinklies in Nottingham, Mr. Wrinkly had to give up driving as he was blind as a bat, Mrs. Wrinkly was an amusing character who'd been telling him for years that his eyesight wasn't brilliant. Anyway, I digress, the Tacoma. 4000 miles on the clock, spotless other than a slight smell of biscuits and the look of a car that's never been dirty so they'd never had to hoover it. Drove like a 350k mile Mk2 Cavalier. Aircon worked in it, which was handy, but what a bloody awful car to have to drive every day. I was beginning to suspect Mr. Magoo might have been faking his blindness just to avoid driving the thing up and down the country to visit the family.Then again, it's a Daewoo. What are you going to expect from a Daewoo? When I ran an Avis branch in the late '90s we were saddled with a load of Nexias and Esperos for a while, they weren't much good either, although the Tacoma thing drove just like the Esperos used to. We even had a few Leganzas, mainly autos with all the toys. Probably the least enjoyable car stereos in the world were fitted to them, all singing, all dancing with loads of buttons and shite, but they sounded dismal. The engine was a bit harsh but ok as long as you didn't expect much (or rev them above 4k) but the auto boxes.... oh dear.... the shift quality of someone who's been driving for the first ever time, doesn't understand what gear to be in and can't reach the pedals properly.Still, cheap, big and full of toys. If they did 'em in beige then the perfect fodder for Hirstcabs' Bolton Division.

[Volksy]

I was beginning to suspect Mr. Magoo might have been faking his blindness.

He can't have been, he bought a Tacoma..Years go, I worked over in NZ, and I got a job working in the local Holden Dealers. They then opened a Daewoo dealers that I was put in charge of. In two months ONE person came on the lot, and then to look at a second hand Hyundai Steller converted to run CNG.

[Guest]

Pete, I have to say my sympathy for your Avis experience does not exist. The wonderful Espero and stunning Leganza are amongst the finest cars on my Christmas list. Sounds like you were living the dream to me!What else did you get to run around in, a Hyundai Sonata V6? Specifically the late 90s onwards one with "S O N A T A" on a strip on the back. Or a Kia Clarus "Executive" perhaps?I'm hugely jealous. Just think about all those fake bits of walnut, green digital clocks and lights on "ding" noises, all awaiting appreciation which was not forthcoming - only scorn and hatred.I'm going to have a bit of a drink now. It would be best if no one disturbed me for a little while.

[Mr Lobster]

In two months ONE person came on the lot, and then to look at a second hand Hyundai Steller converted to run CNG.

About fifteen years ago the first job I did after leaving college was working in a small Renault franchise. Anyway, they had visions of building an empire and promptly acquired a franchise for FSO, rented another showroom and also went and bought a Practical Car Rental franchise to go with the FSO site.After two months of no customers the only FSO salesman quit. At that point I was left all alone in a car showroom in Darwen with only three new FSO Caros for company for six days a week. Fortunately not long after that I was made redundant when the company went under.

[Guest]

On the subject of the type of people who buy certain types of car, am I alone in noticing the number of MINIs on Fiat forecourts, I'm sure they haven't been traded in for Pandas.

Indeed, and shortly after the drug-dealer Range Rover Sport hit the market our local L-R showroom suddenly had an awful lot of early X5s to offload.