Mechanical fuel pump replacement (carb)?

[dieselnutjob]

Anyone on here ever removed a mechanical fuel pump and replaced with an electrical one, on a carburettor engine?

 

This is for the 604.  Reasons:-

 

1. I think that the cam shaft driven fuel pump has a leak.  I took the rocker cover off today and there was a strong smell of petrol in there.

2. I need a camshaft speed trigger for an ECU.  I think that if I can remove the fuel pump then I can make a blanking plate to go in its place with a threaded hole in the middle.  I can screw a hall effect sensor in there and it will pick up the cam that drives the fuel pump and give me a once every 720 degrees pulse.

 

To achieve this I will need to replace the mechanical pump with an electric one.

 

The existing pump has three pipes on it, one from the tank, a return to the tank (I guess) and one to the carbs.

 

Ideally I would like a pump that can run the carbs and late with a little reconfiguration maybe drive a Ford Falcon single point (CFI) throttle body.  From memory the tank pump in a Ford Falcon runs at about 2 bar which is a bit lowerer than the normal 4 bar.  I suspect that even 2 bar is too much for a carburettor though.

 

Can anyone suggest a suitable pump?

[3VOM]

There's a Facet one that does 2 to 4 bar that people use on Talbot Express petrol engines. Ages since I looked into it but check the motor home forums.

[RayMK]

2-4bar is a bit high for a carburettor.  Most of the carbs that I am familiar with (Solex, Zenith, Jikov and whatever 2cvs or Hyundai Stellars use) require around 3-6psi (about 0.2-0.4bar).  

[BavarianRetro]

Old SU pump from any one of the BMC/BL range? If it stops working, hit it and it starts again.

[primeradoner]

I have  done this on a Hillman Minx engine, I used a Facet ticker pump but fitted a pressure reducer in the fuel line to reduce the pressure to suit the carb. 

[Eddie Honda]

Done this on a DAF. Facet cube is 2 to 4 PSI. Rubber mounted it at the rear as it's more suited to pushing rather than pulling. Bit of an arse running the wire to the rear of the car with the loom and never got round to fitting the inertia cut-out before it got nicked.

[Mally]

Could try here page 12 and 13. Tell Rob I promised you discount, It might work.

 

http://www.tmrsupplies.co.uk/2014_TMR_Catalogue.pdf

[pshome]

My 504CC (Solex) and Tagora SX (Weber triples) PRV got this:

 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/HITACHI-Benzinpumpe-Kraftstoffpumpe-133010-/262821091704

 

This is a low pressure 0,15 bar pump, works perfeclty well for carbs. It's pressure controlled, ticks slower or stops when pressure level is reached.

It has enough suction to place it high in the engine bay, no need to mount it close to the fuel tank.

You have to close the return fuel line, otherwiese it will not work because it cannot build pressure.

 

Technical Data: http://www.autoteileshop.ch/daten/pdf/Pumpen.pdf

 

Don't forget to install a safety relay that cuts of the pump in case the engine stalls when you replace a mechanical with an electrical pump!

I use those: http://www.ebay.de/itm/FORD-ESCORT-RS-TURBO-FUEL-PUMP-RELAY-86-90-6145938-PURPLE-TYPE-SERIES-2-NEW-/131711704613

 

P.S.

Dont buy "Hardy - Made in Germany" brand pumps. Already had two of those fail.

[Fabergé Greggs]

I have done this on a Hillman Minx engine, I used a Facet ticker pump but fitted a pressure reducer in the fuel line to reduce the pressure to suit the carb.

This- I have a facet red top in my X1/9 (which is like 9psi or something, but I got it for free) with an inline filter king filter and pressure regulator. You can remove a blank, screw in a little dial which shows pressure, adjust to your hearts content, then pop the blank back in.

 

Oh yeah, with an inline crash safety switch from a sierra or something

[AMC Rebel]

My Chevy is fitted with an old SU in the engine bay - works a treat.  No safety cutout but the car has single circuit drum brakes.....

[pshome]

 

2. I need a camshaft speed trigger for an ECU.  I think that if I can remove the fuel pump then I can make a blanking plate to go in its place with a threaded hole in the middle.  I can screw a hall effect sensor in there and it will pick up the cam that drives the fuel pump and give me a once every 720 degrees pulse.

 

early 504CC V6 have electronic ignition (Schlumberger) with the sensor at the front of the head. You may consider using that existing mounting option.

 

What sort of ECU are you about to install. Why dont you simply install the Bosch ignition of the later PRV TI engines? Very easy to install, just replace the distributor, fit the ECU (6 wires) and done.

[primeradoner]

This- I have a facet red top in my X1/9 (which is like 9psi or something, but I got it for free) with an inline filter king filter and pressure regulator. You can remove a blank, screw in a little dial which shows pressure, adjust to your hearts content, then pop the blank back in.

 

Oh yeah, with an inline crash safety switch from a sierra or something

For obvious reasons I didnt fit a crash safety sensor 

[lisbon_road]

Just a passing thought: I'd mount it as low and close to the tank as possible.  Modern fuel is very volatile.  There was an era when pumps in the engine bay tended to vapour lock.  All pumps prefer to push than pull - all of them.

[derskine]

I fitted an electric one on my Cortina. Remember to fit the pump close to the tank, electric pumps are better at pushing fuel than pulling in most cases.

[fordperv]

Another vote for facet cube and inline regulator, ive fitted them to my own and to a few classics for people, as already said get it as close to the tank as possible

[dieselnutjob]

What sort of ECU are you about to install. Why dont you simply install the Bosch ignition of the later PRV TI engines? Very easy to install, just replace the distributor, fit the ECU (6 wires) and done.

 

Megasquirt.  I already have most of the parts.

 

I want modern twist and go reliability and better than 17mpg.

 

The Ford Falcon CFI throttle body bolts down to the inlet manifold where the current big twin Solex carb is and so it isn't too complex a job, and I already have one.

[hairymel]

something like this will do the job for carb use

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inline-Filter-Fuel-Pump-Universal-Petrol-Diesel-Engine-12V-Electric-pump-HRF-013-/281923549589?hash=item41a3f3f995:g:7ooAAOSwzhVWrgEr

[Eddie Honda]

No idea what those Facet clones are like.

 

The Facet 40104 is the one for carbs, shouldn't need a separate regulator as the range 1.5-4.0 psi range shouldn't overwhelm a working float valve.

 

Specs sheet for the Facet pumps is here:

 

http://www.facet-purolator.com/cube-fuel-pumps.php

[dieselnutjob]

I think that one of the cheap ones will do.  It only has to work for a few months, or maybe a year.

[Eddie Honda]

Looking down the line, get an electric pump with the pressure you need and find a regulator that would do the current job (wind down to 3 psi) and also wind up to 70? psi?)

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

No idea what those Facet clones are like.

 

 

They're fine. Noisy though, and you need PTFE tape on the threads or they leak. But they work very well. Would certainly do the job until a high pressure pump is needed. 

[cros]

I've changed several cars from mechanical to electric- Sunbeam Talbot, Austin Healey Sprout, it even works on cars without two names like the Austin A35 (both mine got changed). I've used Old SUs and Facets but recently found 7 quid Chinese eBay devices just as good in that I've not had one pack up. At this price it's easy to keep a spare with you.

My reason was to avoid vapourisation on hot days and quicker starting when the cars been standing a while. 1st A35 got pump in the boot, but subsequent cars seemed happy enough with easier to wire location low down at the front. Pacet's chattering gets on nerves even mounted on an old engine rubber. I prefer the SU's clunk but parts have become pricey.