Pistonheads Logbook police

[AMC Rebel]

 Hi, 'Ringing' comes from the horse and dog racing world, meaning to give an animal or car a false identity. Usually for nefarious reasons.

 

 Colin

 

Indeed - hence why our retired greyhound had a number tattooed in her ear - I suspect they maybe use chips now

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

No doubt - but it wasn't a Cooper S.  It was a tuned 850 with moody paperwork.

 

Just like the works rally cars after their third reshell... 

 

 

And because it was built to the last correct detail with matching numbers - you would never have known. Apart from the gear change floor hole, four brackets riveted into the boot area and four holes to mount the servo, an 850 shell is identical to an S. When Longbridge were churning Mini shells out, they didn't take S shells to one side and anoint them with holy water.

[AMC Rebel]

they didn't take S shells to one side and anoint them with holy water.

 

[chaseracer]

That's really disappointing.  My illusions are shattered!

[DSdriver]

It sounds like we have a new format for AutoshiteTV - Strictly Legal.

This may already exist but as I don't have TV and never watch I wouldn't know.

 

Surely the term ringing comes from Pigeon racing where all the birds are identified by rings on their legs.

[Eddie Honda]

Irish ones [snip]

Anything 30 years old is tax exempt on a rolling basis

Tax exempt means zero/zilch/nil to pay. Given that Noonan amongst other things takes €56 tax out of my wallet annually for the privilege of smoking around in a 30+ year old car, it's not an exemption at all. It's a concessionary rate, and if you have a collection of them it all adds up.

 

And don't get me started on VRT...

[AlabamaShrimp]

For me this is sort of related to the reshell thing that I don't get as surly putting bits and a vin on a new body and calling it an old car is exactly the same as building one up out of bits and buying a V5.

 

As for the stolen thing that's different but just selling a V5 isn't illegal and you have to prove its going to be used for something dodgy. While I'm sure their sentiments are in the right place it's is all a bit curtain twitcher. Do they ring the count when they see people littering?

[overrun]

I sold a mk1 XR2 logbook, VIN plates etc once on eBay.

This is why I don't use Pistonheads.

[panhard65]

Agree with keeping it chilled - but no-one actually said people selling V5Cs were Donald Trump.

 

I do idly wonder if other countries eBay or similar is doing a trade in car ID docs? (French Cartes Gris maybe?)

 

As for having no proof of ringing - of course that's true, but if people are actually paying these big numbers for V5s it's either -

 

1.To give an ID to legitimise a stolen car, or

 

2.To give an ID to bitsa, so it can appear original

 

In either case, they will need to get the money they paid back, and the only ways of doing that are fraudulent.

 

The buyers surely aren't eccentric millionaires wanting a framed RS1600 V5 to hang on the wall.

 

As for eBay - again I have no proof, but I suspect they are happy to take the auction fees and use their normal disclaimer that they are just a clearing house. I very, very much doubt they have anyone investigating it at all.

I believe the French are worse than we are for flogging a carte gris. Registering a car that has lost it's paperwork is a right nightmare in France so any old Carte gris will do. I have had a couple of examples of this over the years. If it is to help get a legit French heap back on the road then why not, but if it is to make your 1100 Escort into an ex works RS rally car then that is a bit naughty. The French don't ask silly money for a carte gris though about 50 euro's with the chassis plate I am told*

[83C]

Do they ring the count when they see people littering?

 

Not sure what he'd do about it to be honest.

[overrun]

Danny is more into American Muscle.

 

[mercrocker]

I know of two cases where completely separate vehicles have claimed to be the same car.   Its all very well taking a laissez-faire attitude until its your £15000 going off to the pound on the old bill's contractor's beaver-tail.     Admittedly these were a vintage Bentley and a post-war Triumph and competition history was involved but its the same principle.   

[garbaldy]

Well I can assure you if I was spending 15k plus on an old car then it would be severely scrutinised.

Buyer beware or something like that.

[AMC Rebel]

 Do they ring the count when they see people littering?

 

I personally confront people littering if I see them doing it.

[AMC Rebel]

Well I can assure you if I was spending 15k plus on an old car then it would be severely scrutinised.

Buyer beware or something like that.

 

This is a fair point - spending these kind of sums on a Mini or Old School Ford isn't something I'd be doing in any case - partly because I couldn't be sure what I was getting, partly cos I con't have the cash (but I wouldn't if I did) but also because I'd be worried about them getting stolen - same thing for a series or defender landy.

[AlabamaShrimp]

 

Not sure what he'd do about it to be honest.

Got to love auto correction! Count von Count does work for Wakefield council, he's their new automated phone voice, "you're now 7th in the cue, ha ha, can you count to 7? ha, ha, ha,"

[sierraman]

I'd say you'd be more likely these days to end up buying a stolen Mk1 Mexico than a 1.3 made into one. Obtaining the parts would be nigh on impossible. It's awful But it's nothing new.

[Tamworthbay]

Well I can assure you if I was spending 15k plus on an old car then it would be severely scrutinised.

Buyer beware or something like that.

So is it ok for a young lad who has saved up for a few years but doesn't know the ins and outs to be ripped off? I don't think you would say it is for a second so the Buyer beware/ tough shit attitude isn't on really . I regularly see the results of young people at work who have been ripped off and end up with massive bills and the idea that it's their fault in any way because they aren't fully qualified experts is more than a bit unfair.

 

How about the old fashioned idea that people could actually try being honest and decent instead of fucking each other for a few quid? Sadly there seem to be more than a few dodgy people out there who would laugh at that idea so anything that stops them or makes their lives harder is a good thing to my mind.

[garbaldy]

If young and wet behind the ears means you don't know a mechanic or that the AA and RAC do vehicle checks for you then how long do you think a human being should have their hands held.

People who lust after landies and scrotes should be at an age where they have some common sense don't you think.

 

Before the might of the world wide web descends on me I have actually had a car taken off me as it turned out to be of dubious origin, that was an expensive lesson

[mercrocker]

A monkey, five bags or £15K it doesn't really matter if that is all you had to spend.   Without putting too fine a point on it I am the last bloke to grass up the cell next door but I still don't think it is on that people OPENLY flog this kind of stuff which, one way or another, is probably going to end up in misery for somebody down the line.    No matter how careful a buyer they may have been.    

 

I totally agree with buyer beware but it isn't always a patched up Mini Cooper, coil-sprung "Series II" or 1100-Mexico that we are talking about.   Peddling a false identity can end up with somebody really bloody clever doing something potentially able to give someone else a proper kick in the bollocks one day.   

[Cavcraft]

Dishonesty is still dishonesty whichever way you (might) try and dress it up. 

[Bobthebeard]

I personally confront people littering if I see them doing it.

I did just this when a school child (approx 14 year old girl) chucked an apple core and an empty Ribena bottle in my drive....

The reply was "fuck off you old cunt"

[Bren]

 

If people used cars instead of calling them investments none of this would happen.

[garbaldy]

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If people used cars instead of calling them investments none of this would happen.

That's the best reply yet.

[mercrocker]

Sorry, but people have been ringing cars since new Escorts were less than a grand.   I totally agree with the sentiment about use over investment but that doesn't totally explain the trade in moody documents.   These things have been changing hands in pub toilets since they were handwritten bits of cardboard.   I have little doubt that the demographics have changed but not the passion for old cars.   Ringer packs lead to stolen motors.   Somebody's cherished car in many cases.

 

Surely it's our own fish pond that is being pissed in here.  

[AMC Rebel]

I did just this when a school child (approx 14 year old girl) chucked an apple core and an empty Ribena bottle in my drive....

The reply was "fuck off you old cunt"

I've had similar - doesn't stop me trying

[sierraman]

Could be said the police are out of touch with stuff like this, you hear a lot about them smashing car smuggling rings where Range Rovers are getting sent to Africa etc but nothing about classic cars being recovered. It's probably down to time and money. Catch £250,000 worth of stolen luxury cars or find somebody's old Escort.

[DodgeRover]

A better way to think of it would be - would you sell your dead friends passport and NI number? Nobody has a legitimate need for them either

[sierraman]

Or would you go round someone's house in the dead of night, kidnap them and force them to assume a new identity you'd purchased from a man on eBay

[Bren]

FB_IMG_1476370116299.jpg

If people used cars instead of calling them investments none of this would happen.

Perhaps I should have said "If not as many people"

 

There has always been ringing - it used to be dodgy traders. Things have moved on now, supply and demand encourage ridiculous prices for retro / classic cars thereby making ringing worthwhile.

 

When decent marinas and avengers cost upwards of £3k you things are fucked.