Garage door question?

[dieselnutjob]

Currently my garage has some home made plywood doors.

However these are starting to rot and warp, and I don't think that they are terribly secure.

The door opens onto a garage access alleyway and I have had one break in and one failed attempt.

After the first break in I fitted an alarm and the second time they set it off and left empty handed.

 

The door is just over 4.2m wide 2.2m high so quite big.

 

I often park my cars in the alleyway to fix them.  My house is roughly in the middle so normally anyone at either end will go in from their end and not need to go past me.  So far no one has complained or showed any signed of annoyance about me blocking it.

 

what I am wondering is this:  If instead of an up and over door, could I just top hinge the door onto the RSJ that runs across the top of the door?

 

This would have a couple of advantages.

1. It wouldn't cover any of the joists, which I have used if I want to lift something heavy with a winch attached to the roof.  Also I use them as a storage area and an up and over door would block it, and it means I can have more options for hanging lighting from the joists as well.

 

2. It would give me a 4x2m dry area over the alley way to work in even if it rained.

 

Unfortunately although the garage is wide, it is not long enough to get any of my cars inside with the door closed, and it is also pretty full up which stuff and so I have to work on cars in the alleyway, so having a dry bit to work in would be useful.

 

Disadvantages I can think of are the weight of lifting up such a door, and how to hold it horizontal.  It will need some kind of struts that are strong enough to hold it up, and down if it's windy and not get in the way of the car parking underneath it.  I think that some flat bar with a joint half way like a 70s Peugeot bonnet stay would be ideal.

 

Has anyone seen such a thing done before?

[Tickman]

Something like this might be your best hope, supporting a 2x4 meter door that is secure enough to keep anyone out might be quite expensive.

[dieselnutjob]

also it is a "custom" size.

 

I thinking that it might just be better to buy corrugated galvanised roofing sheets and put angle iron round the outsides of it.

[dieselnutjob]

I can go for "13/3 profile" wavy style corrugated sheet.  This is 18mm thick (the depths of the waves) which with a frame around it will give something like a 1 inch thick door.

 

It will look horrible but no one will be able to see it so who cares.

 

Or can go for "box profile 34/1000" which is more modern looking, but will give me quite a thick door I think, something like 1 1/2" thick.

 

I suspect that this would be stronger but also heavier.

 

How thick is a normal garage door?

[Guest Hooli]

I'd be thinking of a 2nd hand roller shutter tbh.

[dieselnutjob]

It won't keep the rain off of me when I am working on the shite.

[Guest Hooli]

cheap gazebo

[dieselnutjob]

This stuff looks ace

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131961124933

 

[Guest Hooli]

We looked at that for the side of our garage but the curvy stuff appeared stronger so we got that instead.

I judged this as the curvy one hung down less of the side of the shelf it was stored on at the builder's merchant.

[dieselnutjob]

For the frame

http://www.speedlinedrywall.co.uk/product_17105_38mm+Base+x+19mm+Leg+x+1.5mm+Gauge.aspx

 

I think I am going to make a steel door myself and fix it in place.  I can figure out how to counterbalance it with springs later.

[Dead_E23]

I'd look at fixing something under the joists that could slide out horizontally under the open door to hold it up.  

 

Something along the lines of a 48mm o.d. scaffold pole inside a 50mm i.d. steel pipe with some tabs welded onto it that get bolted through the joists.  

 

You might need to attach a 'hasp' to the door in case the wind gets under it, and you'd probably need to prop the door up whilst you slide the poles out, but you could work stuff like that out later.

[tapir]

roller door, then with retractable patio awning above might work?

[DSdriver]

Whatever you do it needs to be secure when its up, otherwise it could a) hurt someone 2) fuck up a car if it decided to make a bid for freedom.

[dieselnutjob]

I am thinking

 

open

 

closed

 

when closed there will be max tension in the spring, but the arm will be vertical and so it won't actually pull.

 

As you open the door the spring will start to pull, with increased leverage hopefully just as you need it because the door starts getting heavy

 

As it nears the top the spring will run out of tension just as the strut goes straight, but gravity will hold it locked.

 

To close the door you would push the centre of the strut up and the door would drop until the spring is tensioned a bit, then you would have to pull it all the rest of the way

 

or something...

[dieselnutjob]

but with the hinge on the front of the door instead of the back.

I'm not drawing it again though

[Dead_E23]

Like it!   The spring tension might take a bit of calculating, though.  You could imcorporate a slidey collar to stop the 'knee' bending once it's open.

 

The roller shutter and patio awning idea is a goodie, but I suspect the awning would have to be mounted in such a way that it was inside the shutter when closed or it would soon disappear.

[dieselnutjob]

or the strut can fold down instead of up, and the spring can pull downwards instead

in this case it would need a tiny bit of tension on the spring to keep the strut locked

 

open

 

closed

[Dead_E23]

The first one looks neater.  You'd forever be kicking the spring as you went past it if it was near the ground.

[Mally]

I have fitted a normal up and over steel garage door but hinged at the top as you describe.

I had a second wood garage directly facing but a couple of feet away, (doors at both ends of the garage).

When you opened the wood doors they supported the raised steel door.

The steel door when hinged at the top was quite heavy, yours is much larger.

Your spring and bar support idea is good, but I think it would have to reach at least half way along the raised door to stand a chance of holding the weight.

[dieselnutjob]

The problem with the top spring is that with the door only a bit open the half way point of the strut will be quite near the hinge point of the door, and so the spring will have very little leverage to lift the door.

 

I'm not sure but I think with the bottom mounted spring it might have more leverage; I can't work it out.

 

Also the strut doesn't have to bend 50% of the way along does it?

 

Maybe it works better with 60/40 or 70/30 or something.

 

I probably need to calculate it so that the door is in balance with the spring half way up.

 

Fully open it need to the spring to be fully relaxed so that it doesn't bust the overcentre preventer tab on the strut.

[JeeExEll]

Be careful with garage door springs and their fixings, if not done correctly the springs can be lethal if they break or jump off under tension.

[dave21478]

A 4m by 2m steel framed wiggly tin door is going to be really fucking heavy. I would guess 40-50 kgs at a minimum.

Im not saying its impossible, but the forces required from the springs to provide useful assistance will be enormous and as pointed out above, lethal if anything goes wrong.

 

Be careful.

[gadgetgricey]

Two springs would be better, connected with some threaded rod in the middle.

You can then adjust the tension on the springs by winding the threaded rod in and out as required.

[Dead_E23]

Or even better, a hydraulic door opener:

 

[Eddie Honda]

roller door, then with retractable patio awning above might work?

 

You are former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police John Stalker AICMFP.

 

 

You might have got away with it if you just mentioned one product, but to mention both was careless!

[Dave_Q]

Please use an extra locking device on the arm if going ahead with this, don't rely on the spring, will end in tears.

 

Spring for lifting assistance should be OK but I would consider using a counterweight instead.

[Noel Tidybeard]

the weight of a tailgate when unsupported would suggest that a pair of gas struts may be of assistance with this garage door idea

[dave21478]

The dent in the top of my head from a Vectra tailgate suggests that safety locks would be vital in that situation.

[dieselnutjob]

I think that my sprung strut idea will will only have much mechanical advantage right at the end of the lift, in the same way that a scissor jack gets easier as it gets higher.

 

I am thinking that the answer to this is a right angle arm at the top of the door (triangulated for strength) with weights or another spring to get it going.