Calling any LPG gurus

[gadgetgricey]

Basically thinking about getting the wife's Focus converted to LPG.

Cars in really good nick so not worried about getting money back.

 

Anyone got any knowledge re the what system is best and a rough price of install.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[castros_bro]

Here's one that Ford made with a black top 1.8  Zetec petrol/LPG and is my daily driver, Woking to Bristol rtn yesterday doing about 8 miles a litre LPG. The system uses liquid LPG under pressure pumped to the injectors rather then gas via a pressure regulator but it does mean the Zetec produces more power on LPG then petrol and  can run LPG when it's cold.

 

 

If you are down Woking way I'll lend it to you to have a blatt round in as runs well and don't notice the difference between drinking petrol or LPG except for the fuel running costs. It will be available later on for sale so if you buy it  and  yours is a similar Zetec then your local enterprising licenced LPG back street garage should be able to do a swap over.

[Tamworthbay]

I looked into this but don't do enough mikes to make it worthwhile for me. Try and find someone locally who can suggest a place or travel to somewhere you can trust. I got quotes from £700 to £1600 and oddly enough he highest price was from a place I subsequently heard was well dodgy.

[lisbon_road]

The lowest prices are often Polish installers.  They are generally very competent often having done many installs back home, but don't seem to respect the guidelines here, which are pseudo enforced by a trade body.  UK installers are sometimes really good too - try to get a recommendation.

 

Some insurance companies insist on a certificate from the UK trade body to state that the install is ok, but not all.

 

I had a car converted by a Polish lot who charged £800.  It is a proper sequential system and has been totally reliable.

 

I'm making generalisations in my statements of course.  

[gordonbennet]

Both my installs have been done by Brits.

Both have been reliable, makes of the systems i can't recall, Merc was done probably 5 years ago Polish system and its been trouble free, Subaru done 2 years ago again trouble free but the fuel gauge is effin useless as many appear to be so zeroing the odo and refilling at around 220 miles it is.

 

Gas is very well priced at the moment, ignore most main road garages who are hovering around the 60ppl, Morrisons is currently 50p and some places in Leics and the West Mids are cheaper still...go on Filllpg.co.uk for user updated prices and a bloody handy map of filling stations.

 

I know some Polish fitters here are into this, my worry is will they still be there in 1 or 2 years time if the system's playing up, lifetime warranty not much use when the place is now a McDonalds, so i used established small Brit workshops.

Polish lad i know got his V6 done in Poland while he was home on holiday circa £600 all which is beloe half what a V6 would cost here.

 

Flashlube is a must, Scooby has an electronic dispenser (due to the layout of the inlet manifolds), Merc is fine with a simple vacuum feed, only puts £80/100 on the conversion price so don't skimp on this, installer will probably suggest it anyway.

 

You've got several installers locally, the one at Featherstone has been going years and seems as fairly priced as any other, i used to take new vans in there years ago by the lorryload for conversion.

 

Insurance is simpler if you've got a certified installer, they register the system online so the insurer can just click on the website and your car comes up as LPG'd, if not registered online you might have to send a copy of the certificate, if you don't have a certified system then insurance could be a major headache, its never cost me any more to insure but some companies won't quote on the search engines when you state LPG.

 

The only downsides IMO are if the car is already underpowered because you do lose a little (but not much) power, and the loss of spare wheel well or wherever you are going to fit the tank.

 

I haven't had the Landcruiser converted because at 16 years old not sure it's really worth it, plus the site of the existing petrol tank makes my model an expensive conversion unless i want the tank in the boot.

 

Cost wise, on a simple 4 cyl best you'll find from an established recommended site is around £900, beware any installer who offers to do the job in one day and prices lower accordingly.

[gadgetgricey]

Cheers for that all.

Was a newbie to LPG until a few months ago when bought a rover already converted and now also have a Jeep.

Prices round here as a low as 38p litre so makes sense.

 

Just never converted a car and the prices and systems seem to vary wildly.

 

Goes off to find the place in featherstone.

 

Cheers

[lisbon_road]

Some good advice from Gordon but I really think that not all cars need flashlube.  Depends on the material of valves and seats.  If the ignition is correctly advanced with a timing advance processor or another way, so that the exhaust gases aren't too hot on exit, that helps as well.  I think installers can advise which cars need it.

[philsford]

I filled up at Featherstone everyday for years when I ran lpg and they did a couple of repairs for me. They fit prins equipment which as far as I know is the best. If I needed a car converting I wouldn't go anywhere else. They were converting brand new mazdas a few years ago for the dealers/manufactures.

[andrew e]

Got an illegal unregistered Polish installer to fit me a cheap LPG set up without flash lube. Did 90k no problems in 3 years on an E39. Despised filling up every time in slow motion, got annoyed by the performance drop off (sorry but you do spot it your heavy footed). Insurance and (lack of) certification didn't seem to be a problem.

 

My honest thoughts? Spend the install money on a holiday, and suffer the extra £10 a week.

[warninglight]

...cheap LPG set up without flash lube... got annoyed by the performance drop off...

 

I think that was part of your problem, My main experience of LPG was a Prins VSi system and other than my T5 rumbling along much more quietly on LPG, performance seemed totally identical. If you believe what people claim about 10% power losses on gas then I should have been noticing a 24bhp ish drop between fuels.

 

It can be a pain filling up as pumps often take ages and are also often away from the covered bits at filling stations. It does mean they're rarely blocked by other cars but does mean you have to deal with the weather more often when filling. And it will be more often, most likely! I believe a 4 hole tank fills much more quickly than a single hole tank, but is more expensive so not something I see often.

 

I've also had dealings with some terrible systems (Necam Koltec as fitted to factory Volvo Bi-Fuels, mine had been bodged with an OMVL front end kit) and some old manual switchover single point thing on my last series Landy.

 

A good LPG conversion is great, a bad one isn't.

[andrew e]

Nah, it was a good sequential install but my natural rate of progress is the opposite of most LPG addicts - getaway driver possibly sums it up. You know the difference between 95 & 98 octane petrol in a good car - that was the LPG to petrol difference I'm talking about. I still buy petrol cars (W212 Merc) but it's hard getting a large non-diesel engined estate.

[warninglight]

I used to thrash my old T5 senseless on both fuels and never noticed a difference other than noise, as I mentioned. It never had flashlube and had 205k on the clock when I sold it. Think the LPG was fitted at 80k.

 

Some cars are just happier on it than others I think, too!

[gordonbennet]

I used to thrash my old T5 senseless on both fuels and never noticed a difference other than noise, as I mentioned. It never had flashlube and had 205k on the clock when I sold it. Think the LPG was fitted at 80k.

 

Some cars are just happier on it than others I think, too!

 

I'd agree with that, German cars seem to thrive on the stuff, my old Benz has never missed a beat on it.

On petrol the engine does have slightly more urge but if anything it runs smoother on gas....OMGCHG last year or the one before (done 100k and they all bloody go around then), my MB indy noted the head and valve gear all good, he acknowledged through gritted teeth, he's never really forgiven me for having the old girl gassed.

 

Purely out of interest running cost wise, its a 3.2 24v auto and i drive quite rapidly for an old fart, general running about and commuting filled it up yesterday 257 miles for 60 litres of gas costing £30.

[omegod]

I had a Koltec sytem that had been fitted from new to my Omega, the kit used to be shoved on the back seat at the factory then the delivering dealer would farm it out to a local fitter, in this case a place in Hekmondwyke ?  I never had issue but when phoning places to get it serviced they would drop the phone and run when they heard the word Koltec.  Sage advice would be sell what you have and buy an already converted car that's  running well

[mat_the_cat]

The Zetec engine DOES need Flashlube or similar – the Ford ‘factory’ conversions had a different cylinder head (presumably the only difference being harder valve seats?) and even they suffered VSR long term.

 

As for performance drop off, I can only go by my own experiences on Rover V8s. With both a single and multipoint mixer systems I could detect a drop off in power; but with the sequential one I have now I can changeover with my foot flat on the floor, and not only not notice a power change but not even detect the changeover.

 

If the system specified is not *quite* up to the job then there may be pressure droop at high fuel demands and possible max out the gas injector times? Alternatively, if not enough time is spent on the setting up of the system, it could be running lean at WOT. The gas system takes its injector times from the petrol times with a fiddle factor to correct them – if this is not right, during most of the engine’s rev/load range it isn’t normally a problem, as feedback from the lambda sensor will adjust the fuel trims to be correct. But at high revs/loads it’s designed to run slightly on the rich side and ignore the lambda reading so could be running too rich or lean.

 

I know from experience that it’s difficult to find a suitable stretch of road to map perfectly at high revs and loads – ended up pulling a heavy trailer up a long hill to keep the speeds legal for long enough! I would have thought better installers would be able to put in suitable values based on skill and experience though…