Exceeding BXpectations - Now With Added Renault 4

[Joey spud]

Not a citroen fan but i do like a BX,excellent cars.

 

I was running up the M25 near Sevenoaks yesterday when i was a passed by a silver D plated Citroen BX15.

 

Never seen a BX15 before and cant be sure if it was left hand drive as i only saw the rear end as it passed but looking through the rear screen the front wiper seemed to be set up for lhd (unless they all were).

 

Anyone know the car ?

[Cleon-Fonte]

That's the answer I was hoping not to hear. Hopefully it is just timing that's out. I'm in a bind as the garage that did it is closed for the next two weeks while the gaffer's on holiday, and if he's buggered it up he's going to be the one made to keep fixing it 'til it's right.

[Inspector Morose]

Does it sound harsh (as in very pronounced diesel sounds)? Poor starting with white smoke?

If yes, tooth out on the timing. Easily done. Pretty simple to put right.

[forddeliveryboy]

I'm left wondering if there's something about this car which makes le garage deeply desire it, with the timing out (if that's what it is) are they thinking you may just give up on it?  

 

I mean, a radiator which needs replacing (could it be they will diagnose the hg's gone again because of it) and a rear suspension arm bearing are hardly killers for one of these, if it's otherwise good. Odd that he should try and put you off the car having spent a load of money having the engine's head gasket done.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Does it sound harsh (as in very pronounced diesel sounds)? Poor starting with white smoke?

If yes, tooth out on the timing. Easily done. Pretty simple to put right.

 

That's pretty much exactly what it's doing. That and sometimes cutting out if I don't have it up to 2000 revs within a few seconds of starting.

 

I'm left wondering if there's something about this car which makes le garage deeply desire it, with the timing out (if that's what it is) are they thinking you may just give up on it?  

 

I mean, a radiator which needs replacing (could it be they will diagnose the hg's gone again because of it) and a rear suspension arm bearing are hardly killers for one of these, if it's otherwise good. Odd that he should try and put you off the car having spent a load of money having the engine's head gasket done.

 

Perhaps they plan to buy it for peanuts from me and then sell it at a massive markup, once they've done the tiny jobs that need doing to it.

 

Either that or the green seats are too alluring to resist.

[billyboy406v6]

If he got the timing wrong, how do you trust him to fix it ?

[JayW]

Takes about 20 minutes for a novice to check the timing with nothing more than a couple of spanners and a selection of drill bits.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Yep, if it's just timing I'm not taking it back (in fact I don't think I'll be paying a return visit at all). I'll do it myself this week.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Dopy question of the day: Lucas or Bosch?

 

[forddeliveryboy]

Lucas, you can tell them apart by which side the fuel inlet is. Obv turbo ones easier to identify with Bosches sporting their flying saucer.

[Cleon-Fonte]

BX ownership turned a bit less glamourous over the weekend. Here it is last night:

 

 

Having crossed the Pennines on Saturday to visit the residence of a friend in the lovely* town of Castleford, we ended up broken down and stranded in Tadcaster. Eventually we made it back to Cas Vegas with the help of my friend James and his K11 Micra (he is well versed in the art of chod bothering, his other fleet members consisting of a Plymouth Barracuda stroked out to over 8 litres, a Citroen 2CV and a diesel Mercedes W124 estate, so coming out to rescue a complete madman in a BX late at night must have seemed like a fairly normal thing to do).

 

With no improvement on Sunday after the fitment of a new battery and a check of the battery leads, I ended up being given a lift home in my mate's Peugeot 306 HDi with the intention of going back Monday evening to get the Citroen started. Which was slightly spoiled by me travelling the 70 miles to Castleford then realising I'd forgotten the keys. With the last train having gone, and no car, I was forced to borrow the 306 for the return journey.

 

 

I'm not usually a fan of ridiculous bodykits (a few exceptions including the BX aside), but this one makes the humble 306 look bloody superb. It's brilliant to drive, too. The low rev torque is relentless and allows climbing of near vertical surfaces in 5th without any bother whatsoever, a contrast to the BX which needs poking with a big stick before it gets going. The steering is incredibly feelsome and communicative if a little slowly geared for my liking, and the ride/handling compromise is done superbly (although the rear suspension could do with being a touch less stiff, but that's steel sprung cars for you). The gearchange is a revelation after the BX too, it's still quite PSAish and therefore shit, but at least it doesn't feel like it'd be more suited to something with 53 seats and an 11-litre engine.

 

The reaction from other motorists when bombing down the outside lane of the motorway at 80 with 'L' plates on is also rather interesting. Unfortunately they wouldn't peel off in one piece.

 

Digression aside, it looks like my starter motor's borked, and I finally had to relent and buy breakdown cover to get me home, thereby giving me the chance to sample the worst vehicle I've ever experienced. Tomorrow evening I shall hopefully be able to remove the dodgy starter and set to work rebuilding it on Friday. Getting the air cleaner assembly off should also allow for access to the fuel pump bolts which are otherwise hidden, so I can kill two birds with one stone and get that timed up.

 

All in all, what a pain in the arse these last few days have been.

 

 

[dollywobbler]

Wonderful write up. Especially about gear linkages and turbocharger differences!

 

I'm afraid BXs (and other XUD beasts) can develop random 'refusal to start' syndrome, which can be as simple as poor earthing between engine and body. You can bump start a BX. Even when it's sitting down (though you need some bravery as no hydraulic pressure means no footbrake!). Just thought I'd mention it in case you can still stave off the cost of a new starter. Try a jump lead between a good point on the engine and the negative terminal. 

 

Not a glorious start with this car is it? Sure you want to sell the Sirion?! Must concede that Japanese turn-key reliability can get addictive...

[Cleon-Fonte]

My recovery man had loads of fun repeatedly winching the BX up onto the recovery truck, then releasing it to try and pull off a successful bump start. He was even successful at getting it started at one point, then it cut out again because of the dodgy timing. Bastard 'specialist' garage.

 

I'm fully expecting at this rate to be driving around in the Sirion forever. Hopefully I can pull off a successful starter motor rebuild and all will be right with the universe again.

[Cleon-Fonte]

The Bank Holiday began with a mission to buy a new starter motor. Eventually a motor factors was found near Meadowhall that was A) open on Bank Holiday Friday and had the right part in stock. This dictated a trip over the Woodhead Pass, and the Daihatsu was given its chance to contribute to Project BX.

 

 

Living the dream, Autoshite style. Two cars which are polar opposites of each other.

 

The Sirion is definitely more of an occasional toy than an everyday hack. From the off it's no model of Gallic comfort, if I recline the driver's seat back (which appears to be made of ironing boards) into a comfortable position I can no longer reach the steering wheel, and my right leg has to be twisted into a position in which it looks broken to press the throttle. Bolt uprightedness it is then.

 

Once on the move things improve though, although I was reminded that some of the roads round my way are actually quite poorly surfaced, and I was exposed to a variety of suspension movements that I'd forgotten happened (taking sleeping policemen at 40mph was no longer viable). But the little tin insect is still riotous fun so long as you're prepared to keep your foot down, the engine spinning 1000rpm more than seems natural in most circumstances. Ragging it around the Peak District in the sunshine has to be one of the best motoring experiences of the year so far for me.

 

Sheffield was finally acheived, and the starter motor purchased. Much chod was present:

 

 

A pretty clean looking old Humber. Seemed tiny for what would once have been family transport.

 

 

South Yorkshire means Reliant Robins and Reliant Robins mean South Yorkshire. Not just one, but two here.

 

 

Forget your old Humbers, this was the real classic deserving of attention.

 

I then made my way round to Meadowhall proper to buy some lunch. This has confirmed my view that you'd have to be mad enough to be frothing at the mouth to shop as a recreational activity. How do people do it?

 

Whilst there, I discovered that Dollywobbler and I are not the only ones with a love for old Sirions. The owner of this one seems to have spent every waking hour waxing and polishing it, and had even seen fit to fit a private plate. Still a few rust blebs poking through though (see, it is the true Mini successor).

 

 

And so to the return trip to Derbyshire, spent surprising other motorists as the little Japanese shopping trolley thundered past their more flashy, more powerful machinery in the available overtaking lanes.

 

Part 2 to follow.

[Cleon-Fonte]

After arriving home it was time to crack on with the starter motor change. All I can say is that whoever laid out the BX turbodiesel's engine bay was obviously having a bad day. Access to anything, even the most minor items, requires one to have the hands of a baby and the arms of Mr. Tickle. It's great at turning short jobs into long ones.

 

First of all, air intake tubes off. I was most surprised to find them half full of very old, very smelly oil. I wonder how that got in there.

 

 

Note radiator running wild and free.

 

 

The air filter is definitely past its best. I could probably double my OMGMPGs with a new one, which is now on the list.

 

 

 

I can see it!

 

 

By the time I'd got all that off, and the battery moved out of the way, darkness was beginning to settle in. I decided to call it a night, hoping that Saturday's weather would be more of the same. Unsurprisingly, it wasn't. Storms and rain persisted right the way through to Sunday afternoon, and by the time my 306 bothering friend had arrived to assist with the starter motor change, darkness was again upon us. Determined to press ahead, we worked into the night.

 

It sounds easy enough: undo one bolt from the front, three from the back and the starter motor should just drop out. However, the aforementioned access issues, plus bolts that have spent 24 years rusting themselves into place, made for a long job. Eventually, however, the starter motor came free to the sounds of much rejoicing.

 

Can you tell which one's which?

 

 

As you can see, the new one is slightly bigger than the old one, which made getting it back in an experience. Sadly all my photos from that night didn't turn out well, and assuming you don't want to see what looks like a couple of beige ghosts standing under what could be construed as a car bonnet, I'll spare you the displeasure.

 

New starter motor manoeuvred in, everything else fitted, and it was time to see if the BX would chug into life. I'll give you this picture as a clue to how we did:

 

 

Raised suspension can only mean one thing. The old Baguette Wagon now starts on the button.

 

 

 

 

[Skizzer]

Blimey, that engine bay is a far cry from the suitcase 1.4 petrol I had in mine, which had space for the family to picnic while you tried to fix the blocked carb AGAIN. Well done.

 

I'd post up a Google pic for contrast, but 1. I'm on an iPad and 2. Any time I see the oily bits of a BX 14RE again I get flashbacks, start rocking back and forth and crying softly and they have to double my meds.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Flashback alert:

 

 

I'd have given several essential organs to have that, or even better the taxbuster special 1.1l version they did on the continent, to work on.

[Skizzer]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaasggghhhhhhh! Nurse!

 

Make it stop

Make it stop

Make it - no, hang on...

 

Make it start

Make it start

etc

[mat_the_cat]

First of all, air intake tubes off. I was most surprised to find them half full of very old, very smelly oil. I wonder how that got in there.

 

They all do that! Even low mileage ones I've owned have had some oil in there, and the only one I've owned hasn't got noticeably worse over 140k miles. I'm sure there are more important things to worry about!

 

I think it's just oil being pushed through the breather system.

[mat_the_cat]

The 2.1 XM engine looks even tighter!

 

[dollywobbler]

Oooh, Brown Haynes manuals! You'd do well to claim those, and get a diesel engine one. The later blue Haynes manual is about a third the size.

 

Well done on that job. Now just pray your alternator never fails. Utter ballache, even on the non-turbo.

[Cleon-Fonte]

If you don't have one already would you like any of these manuals?

 

SAM_1305.JPG

 

I've got a complement of Haynes manuals here (aren't they wonderful?*) but that Pocket Mechanic book looks pretty damn nifty. Definitely would if you no longer need it.

 

They all do that! Even low mileage ones I've owned have had some oil in there, and the only one I've owned hasn't got noticeably worse over 140k miles. I'm sure there are more important things to worry about!

 

I think it's just oil being pushed through the breather system.

 

I was a little surprised and worried at first, but if they all do it I can relax.

 

That XM pic almost affirms my decision not to go for one when I still had the horn for them. Actually no, I'd still quite like one, just one that had had those difficult to reach places tickled first by someone else.

 

Well done on that job. Now just pray your alternator never fails. Utter ballache, even on the non-turbo.

 

Cheers. Having seen where the alternator is, I think I'd be tempted to pay somebody else to do it. Although once I've really got stuck in to sorting some other issues the alternator may seem like a walk in the park in comparison.

[mat_the_cat]

That XM pic almost affirms my decision not to go for one when I still had the horn for them.

 

That's the XM engine in a BX!

http://www.clubcitroenbx.com/bx2012/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1457

[Cleon-Fonte]

Ah yes it is, quite clearly in fact. That's madness but I'm glad somebody's tried it.

[themildbunch]

Great work - you'll get really quick whipping all that plastic off over time!  Most jobs need it removing...

 

Alternator doesn't quite fit from the top IME unless you remove the radiator - always worth flushing it once a year or so anyway... got to keep XUD cooling systems on their best behaviour...  Some say removing the headlight lets you roll it out but this didn't work for me and removing the rad's pretty quick anyway.

[Cleon-Fonte]

removing the rad's pretty quick anyway.

 

That's music to my ears, this rad is of unknown origin and has been bodged in, so a genuine XUD item will need fitting fairly soonish. The starter motor job would have been much easier without the rad constantly flopping in the way, that's for sure.

 

All that plastic should be coming off again this week when I attempt lamely to time the injector pump, a job which I've left too long as it is. Does anybody know where that third bolt on the bottom is actually located?

 

[dollywobbler]

Unknown origin is probably because TD rads were impossible to get hold of for a time. I'm out of BX circles at the moment, so don't know if the situation has improved. 

[vulgalour]

It's a relief reading this and finding someone having just the same access problems as I've experienced on Citroens of a particular age.  Just the same enjoyments too.  I am envious of your interior, which is appropriate given its colour.

[Cleon-Fonte]

Unknown origin is probably because TD rads were impossible to get hold of for a time. I'm out of BX circles at the moment, so don't know if the situation has improved. 

 

Judging by the excitement caused on the BX Arsebook page a few months ago when a bunch of NOS 17TD radiators appeared, they must still be difficult to get hold of. I don't mind someone fitting a non-original radiator so much, I just wish they'd chosen one that attached to the car properly.

 

It's a relief reading this and finding someone having just the same access problems as I've experienced on Citroens of a particular age.  Just the same enjoyments too.  I am envious of your interior, which is appropriate given its colour.

 

Green cars with matching interiors are for WINNAHS. So long as it's only a BX or Rover 75 (proper classics aside).

[Cleon-Fonte]

Went for a drive earlier. Suddenly the handbrake light and 'STOP' light began to flash in unison itermittently and didn't stop until I'd got home. Nothing seems wrong and it drives completely normally so I wonder if this just a case of French electronics being French electronics.

 

Anyone had this happen before?