H166 HUE The Last Defender

[twosmoke300]

They are / terrible in so many ways but there is something good about them . Our family has always had them in various guises . Uncles s2a with a Perkins 4.203 sticks in my mind for being so awful .

They should have stuck to just making basic models as workmans tools not fitting alloys / air con and flashy paint .

I actually find them reasonably comfy so either I'm used to them or I'm a very strange shape .

End of an era and I hope Toyota have upped production of the hilux .

[plasticvandan]

It will be interesting to see how the 4x4 pickup market pans out (I work for a company that sellsall the accessories for them) there is a new hilux out very soon,the new navara is already out,as is the new l200,the facelifted ranger is out,so a lot of new models.Mercedes,Renault and Fiat are all entering the market soon as well.

[Lacquer Peel]

Please tell me the new model isn't made in China. That would kill me the thought those fuckers had invaded the last British institution we had.

 

The Indian-owned Land Rover?

[twosmoke300]

These jap pick ups are on the whole very good trucks ( hi lux especially - l200 not so much ) but why do they need to be so bloody massive ? The current Ranger is huuuugggee ! Part of the attraction to a Landy / terrano/ fourtrak to me is that they are not much bigger than a car so easy to move about esp with a trailer on .

[plasticvandan]

The l200 is known for being shit,I hate them,the amarok is bought by people who couldn't afford a range rover,and 95% of all pickups bought are a tax fiddle.

[garethj]

it's a shame they can't keep the basic design and just make it more production friendly using moulded bits rather than rivetted.

It's things like pedestrian safety that caused them to stop making it.  A friend at Jag-Land Rover was in one of the many meetings where "we could just keep making it, couldn't we?" was said.  When someone replied "Yes, it just means we'll kill a few more children in road accidents" the room apparently went a bit quiet.

 

It was always profitable to make

Not sure about that, certainly as recently as 2 years ago nobody at JLR really knew how much it cost to build one as the labour for the variants was so complicated.  From a manufacturing point of view, you can either have a bit of the factory that's making Range Rovers at 40% profit per car, or use that bit of the factory to make a Defender at, dunno, somewhere between 10 and 30% profit, hopefully, maybe, per car.  And by the way, there's a huge demand for Range Rovers, they can't make them fast enough.

 

From this point of view, they're throwing away money by not building the most profitable car.  Much as I love the Defender, I'd rather it wasn't a continual drain on their resources.

[garethj]

No, what is sad is that LR is not still a genuine world-class, world-beating vehicle builder and that there are no more proper Rovers.   I don't mean P5s or P6s, I mean proper, desirable, British cars full of British engineering talent which should have by now, 66 years of true development behind them. 

 

I know it's a British trait to knock our own stuff (does Autoshite.de say that all Opels are scheiße?) but Land Rover seem to be doing very well with their new stuff.  I'm not a fake blonde woman in her 40s pretending to be in her 20s, wearing a massive pair of sunglasses on her head and nursing a Chardonnay habbit so I can't really see the appeal, but the cars are selling very well.

 

New Jaguars aren't particularly relevant to me either as I don't want to spunk £350 a month on something I'll never own, but apparently they're quite good compared to the competition.  Certainly the new ones I've been in are lovely and go like hell.

[oldcars]

I think its sad. Liked them would have one if i could afford it. Shame to see something else good leave Britain.

[Lacquer Peel]

It's things like pedestrian safety that caused them to stop making it.  A friend at Jag-Land Rover was in one of the many meetings where "we could just keep making it, couldn't we?" was said.  When someone replied "Yes, it just means we'll kill a few more children in road accidents" the room apparently went a bit quiet.

 

That's a false and emotive argument - they could just stop making cars altogether to reduce road deaths.

[scruff]

JLR are absolutely dripping with money. It's a smidge unfair to say they aren't a success story.

We went and did the Defender factory tour back in November. We were told that the reasons for stopping were both the safety concerns and as said by garethj, the things cost so much to build and take a lot longer than anything else they produce. The third world markets always painted as traditional LR territories went years ago, something like 2  or 3% of production has been going to "rest of world" everything else into Europe, with GB and Germany as the strongest markets. They also said the line is being mothballed with no decisions made on overseas production.

It has to be said the most recent ones are bloody awful. They have kept it going by classing them all as light commercials and kept the emissions down by knocking the power back. A late eighties V8 has more power. 

[garethj]

That's a false and emotive argument - they could just stop making cars altogether to reduce road deaths.

Well, kind of, but I think they were looking for an option where the many, many tiers of managers can keep pulling in huge salaries and kill fewer children.

[MarvinsMom]

i wonder if on the new nisan nivara? pick up thing whether they will solve the problem of the roof rotting out around where the roof bar things fix to it?

[garbaldy]

The main reason the roof starts to rust is that people don't clean out the small drainage holes, its far worse a problem if parked under trees.

[sierraman]

 

The Indian-owned Land Rover?[/quote

 

For god sake.

[forddeliveryboy]

 

The Indian-owned Land Rover?[/quote

 

For god sake.

 

Probably Buddha's. We've a lot to thank the Indians for, regarding their slice of our motor industry - they're a rare case of building on and improving a brand after buying it.

 

I reckon we should just be glad they existed, a bit of little old Britain for evermore preserved in some welded steel, aircraft skin offcuts and Rover oily bits. We've concreted over a lot of interesting architecture and old towns, plenty of Series 2 remain to remind us we're still in the UK.

[noseypoke]

The Indians will prob buy the design.Build it and sell it back to U.K. at a third of the price and throw in a Royal Enfield Bullet  to boot!!!

[I_am_Diesel]

I was brought up with Land Rovers. My Grandad had a Series 1, my Dad had a Series 2 & a Series 3. The first car I ever drove was a Land Rover. I spent 15 years in the RAF working on Land Rovers and many subsequent years working on Land Rovers. I own a Defender which I love and will never part with unless I have to. But am I sad that production has ended? Probably not. Like the original Mini, they are too archaic in design and well past their sell by date. They have made their mark on automotive history but time to move on.

[willswitchengage]

Please tell me the new model isn't made in China. That would kill me the thought those fuckers had invaded the last British institution we had.

 

They're opening a factory in Slovakia too. Not sure what to build though

 

It's terrifically British though in its fuck up-ness. What is the defender? A copy of the Willys Jeep that's had its body panels, interior and engines changed over the years, but its design hasn't changed. The Toyota FJ40 (and Nissan Patrol) was also based on the Jeep but went through major incremental changes over the years to now be the vehicle of choice for adventurers military users the world over, with the spin off Hilux being the vehicle of choice for industrial customers. These are only really bought by wealthy people nowadays for the brand. They're uncomfy, have atrocious build quality, appalling dynamic properties and are useless on fuel. Outmaneuvered by what Mitsi, Mazda, Nissan and Toyota churn out in the millions. It's the same mistake Jeep made with the civvy model - no idea what to sell it as other than as 'a Jeep'. A product that hasn't innovated for half a century deserves to die really. Some work; the Brookes saddle, the AK47. The Land Rover did not. 

[Vin]

Or, if you really want a new one, just order one from Santana in Spain, they've been building them for years and will continue to. EU rules you say? Just swap a couple of trim bits over and you'll barely notice the difference.

 

Good luck with that mate. They've been defunct since 2011. Doubt that had anything to do with 'EU RULEZ' either, just nobody bought the fuckers.

[Clanger]

It's things like pedestrian safety that caused them to stop making it.  A friend at Jag-Land Rover was in one of the many meetings where "we could just keep making it, couldn't we?" was said.  When someone replied "Yes, it just means we'll kill a few more children in road accidents" the room apparently went a bit quiet

I'm not sure I fully understand this argument.  As someone else mentioned, surely it's the 2 ton mass of car combined with the speed of the impact that results in death?  Why then is a Defender more likely to kill nuns and kittens that any other car?

[Lacquer Peel]

Good luck with that mate. They've been defunct since 2011. Doubt that had anything to do with 'EU RULEZ' either, just nobody bought the fuckers.

 

 

You can still buy a Pazhan.

 

 

I'm not sure I fully understand this argument.  As someone else mentioned, surely it's the 2 ton mass of car combined with the speed of the impact that results in death?  Why then is a Defender more likely to kill nuns and kittens that any other car?

 

Metal bumpers and boxy, unyielding surfaces - but it is a working vehicle and the same standards that apply to passenger cars don't usually apply here. I wouldn't want to be knocked down by a snowplough or any HGV.

[warren t claim]

 

I must admit that this is a great advert.

[Clanger]

Metal bumpers and boxy, unyielding surfaces - but it is a working vehicle and the same standards that apply to passenger cars don't usually apply here. I wouldn't want to be knocked down by a snowplough or any HGV.

So being hit by a plastic bumpered BMW X5 at 30 mph is less likely to harm nuns and kittens?  What about a G Wagen?  Was the number of deaths caused by fatal Land Rover metal bumper interactions significantly higher than other nun/kitten vehicle interface maimage?

[garethj]

I'm not sure I fully understand this argument.  As someone else mentioned, surely it's the 2 ton mass of car combined with the speed of the impact that results in death?  Why then is a Defender more likely to kill nuns and kittens that any other car?

As LP says, it's full of unyielding metal panels aimed at a child's head height.  I haven't seen what happens to the crash test dummy when it's hit by a Defender but apparently it makes your arse clench just watching it.

 

Modern cars are much softer; they have a certain amount of clearance between rigid underbonnet parts and the bonnet above it so it's much kinder to pedestrians.  I love old cars dearly, but I imagine that hitting someone in a 1970s car is like an axeman's killing spree - the steering column impales the driver while the pedestrian gets an SU dashpot rammed through his skull.

 

The best answer is not to crash, but apparently you can't turn up to an NCAP test and say "ah, but what if he missed that obstacle?"

[garethj]

So being hit by a plastic bumpered BMW X5 at 30 mph is less likely to harm nuns and kittens?  What about a G Wagen?  Was the number of deaths caused by fatal Land Rover metal bumper interactions significantly higher than other nun/kitten vehicle interface maimage?

Dunno, but I'd rather be hit by a pillow at 30mph than a scaffolding pole.  Selling cars is all about the spec, if one of those specs is how many pedestrians you can mow down without causing a scratch bigger than 3 inches then that's what the car makers have to comply with.

 

A shame one of the test requirements isn't "can you make it look less fucking hideous?", but that's modern cars for you.

[Clanger]

Dunno, but I'd rather be hit by a pillow at 30mph than a scaffolding pole.  Selling cars is all about the spec, if one of those specs is how many pedestrians you can mow down without causing a scratch bigger than 3 inches then that's what the car makers have to comply with.

 

A shame one of the test requirements isn't "can you make it look less fucking hideous?", but that's modern cars for you.

Maybe so, but I can't help but wonder about the logic.  Being hit by two tons of soft* metal traveling at 30 mph is still being hit by a two ton object traveling at a fair rate of speed.  Besides the Landy is made of soft Alyoumineeeummmm so that must make for a soft landing... no?

[plasticvandan]

Guess the point being made is that it would be preferable* having a marrow up your arse than a brick?

[warren t claim]

Sadly we now live in the era of the pyrotechnic popping bonnet for pedestrian safety.

[HH-R]

Do we deffo know it's for pedestrian safety? My money's on the space could be used more efficiently for a line that churns out motors faster and at a higher profit margin (which is fair enough, it's a business at the end of the day).

[Clanger]

Guess the point being made is that it would be preferable* having a marrow up your arse than a brick?

Ahhh.  Finally, language I can understand.