Car lift Info wanted.

[Tickman]

Due to being slightly knackered in the joints department and crawling around on the floor in the cold no be very the most fun that can be had ever I have been day dreaming about a lift so I can spend actual time 'fixing' things rather than looking at them and thinking 'not today as I am knackered'

I am under no illusion that having a lift will certainly make productivity increase make absolutely no difference except I can then look at the focus of my frustration at different heights 

 

The question I have is, having been looking at second hand ramps on every available reselling site I have seen a 4 post Tecalemit 3 ton for £500. I went to have a look at it and firstly it works and the cables seem newish. It is in a little back street garage run by some Polish feller who to be fair does not have the best English vocabulary (sent me a picture message so I could have the address) 

It has a hydraulic ram under one platform and cables to all the relevant places. 

It is from 1989 and is model 151111.

I would rather not die under the weight of a second hand ramp and car combo and do not know if there is / should be a safety system on something this age.

 

Anyone give me any insight into the world of old heavy ramps that I should probably walk away from and continue dreaming?

 

Cheers, John.

[Tickman]

A couple of pictures to help with the mocking, especially the health and safety with the jack on the ramp!

[Richard]

The safety system will be in the form of mechanical brakes that operate if the lift is coming down too fast. That looks similar to the FOADWERX lift actually.

 

My friend has a much older two poster, it has a lock that kicks in at working height and at a couple of feet- to lower it past these two points you have to push a handle.

[John F]

That looks to be in better (cosmetic) condition than the lift we use for our Land Rovers, although it doesn't appear to have a wheel-free mechanism (see example pic of a wheel-free mech below).

 

 

 

That being the case, £500 seems a little steep. Maybe £300?

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Didn't think these were that affordable? This has opened up a whole new channel of day dreaming for me

[derskine]

It's a bit different to our ramp at FOADWERX.

It's great having a ramp but there's one annoying thing.

 

Forget getting both wheels (an axle) up in the air. There's not enough width to put axle stands in strong points, at least on the older cars I've been working on.

You do get scissor lift things that go on the 4 post but I think that will end up being more expensive than the ramp will cost you.

 

Make sure the concrete you're mounting it to is strong.

 

We paid £150 for our 4 post from the unit next door.

[cros]

I always liked the idea of a lift and ended up buying two (2 and 4 post) and removed them myself when a local garage closed. Lots of work. I sold the 4 poster after asking opinions on which would be the best to keep.

  I installed the two-poster, a screw type. So far it had not cost me much due to recouping the outlay on selling the other one (had to deliver it though). A decent converter device to enable the 3 phase motor to run happily on my single phase supply cost quite a bit, and a year later the brass nuts were on their wear limit, another 200 quid. In the meantime I tripped over the machine countless times as it was a tight fit in my workshop, and worse still it was eating away at me that I could accommodate another car but for the space the lift took up.

  The upshot is that I took it out, sold it, and bought a high lift trolley jack and very big axle stands with part of the proceeds. For me that works much better, I'm scrabbling about on the floor again like a true shiter, aching joints and all.

[Richard]

If you want the wheels to be free a two poster is probably the way to go.

[dave21478]

I prefer two post ramps myself for ease of access to the suspension etc.

Derskine stated a VERY important point - make sure your floor is up to the job - the poured concrete in a domestic garage is likely not thick enough.

 

IMO 500 seems a little steep for that one - you can buy a brand new ramp on ebay for not much more than a grand.

[panhard65]

I have got both a 4 post and a 2 post. The 4 post has wheel free and cost about £500 it is a Bradbury though and they are really good old lifts, far better than this modern shite. To test the saftey mechanism put the lift up a foot or two with nothing on it. The grab hold of one cable and give it a sharp tug. What you are hoping to see is the ramp comes up when you tug it and when you release it rapidly that corner should lock out and the cable will be slack. Try this on the 3 corners and it will give you an idea if the saftey system works. They need to be secured down into good solid concrete. I find the 4 poster the quickest to use and tend to just use the 2 poster for the long term projects. New ropes are about a couple of hundred and the old Bradbury is really simple to maintain. A wheel free type is the best as the one you are looking at uses jacking beams which can cost more than the ramp. The place I used to work at had a 1968 Bradbury which in all those years has only ever had servicing and still works perfectly now.

[andrew e]

I'm going to look at the NEC at the free standing ones like Richard K is using, very tempted.

[colino]

While the two poster is the obvious choice when doing wheel or suspension work, I still prefer the 4 poster with a jacking beam.  You'll be amazed at how many modern cars doors are suddenly a poor fit when on the two poster and some of the ancients look like the lift pads aren't going to stop (but the car isn't going to move!) when they touch the rusty chassis.

Your pic is good because it shows it in situ with plenty of oily rag care but no leaks, but personally, I'd prefer a new one with a warranty.  They start off really cheap now.

[garbaldy]

New lift fitted just this week at a mates house, its not quite as good as the one we have at the farm but its rated at 4 ton so should do the trick,

[twosmoke300]

An old tecalimet will be a good old ramp . I've got a Bradbury that is older than I am . The only prob with an old ramp is that they are a bit small for modern big cars and vans.

Is it single phase ? Always makes them more desirable and therefore more expensive .

[Bear]

How much does installation and transport cost, and do they need 3-phase of a demand that exceeds that available from a convertor?

 

The Holden lift I have is £1500 and lifts at the sills, but no installation costs, low height requirements, and can be moved relatively easily. The relevant part though is that yes, it makes an immense difference to working on the car - be it the obvious stuff, or thinks like taking time to clean under doors, fix speakers and mechanisms, clean door shuts, do routine maintenance or detailing that involves getting the wheels off.

 

If you can genuinely get a four-poster in good, safe and set up condition for the sort of prices mentioned here, absolutely go for it. If I found one I'd have it in the barn (two cars to store in one space!) but I wouldn't consider it a replacement for the Holden cantilever one - that offers a much faster, immediate use for more routine jobs and arguably is a better choice for maintenance of your own cars, it has less room for mishaps (I have a fear of two-post lifts, having seen more than one careless positioning do serious damage to cars).

[Bear]

I'm going to look at the NEC at the free standing ones like Richard K is using, very tempted.

 

If you're down anyway, I'm only 30 minutes or so from there - you're welcome to come and have a proper play, put your car on it and so forth. They're listening to feedback on improvements from their users, too.

[red5]

As noted before - test your floor 1st. Minimum of 6" depth of Gen1 or C25 spec needed.

 

Don't ask me how I know.

[pshome]

I dont know what you drive, but you are aware of the fact that only french lifts can lift french cars?

 

 

Likeise, german cars need a german lift.

 

US cars dont need a lift, they have one built in

 

British cars should not be lifted at all, they were not made for this.

 

 

[twosmoke300]

Floor spec for a 2 post is critical but 4 posters are much more tolerant

[They_all_do_that_sir]

If you're down anyway, I'm only 30 minutes or so from there - you're welcome to come and have a proper play, put your car on it and so forth. They're listening to feedback on improvements from their users, too.

This the one?

 

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?pCode=091.960

 

If so that looks like it would be more than adequate for most jobs. Take it you wouldn't need much height in the garage either?

[Timewaster]

Have you got 3 phase electric on site?

 

Converters are expensive and not always man enough.

 

Single phase ramps are bound to be more money.

[scruff]

+1 for two posters. With a bit of imagination/daredevilness the uses they have are never ending. 

 

We have a two post converted to be mobile... I will take some pics... we do also have a travelling crane in the shed roof though...

[Tickman]

The lift above is apparently both single and 3 phase?

I did have a look at the motor plate and it does say 220 - 4** something like that.

I do have 3 phase available so not too much of an issue, just a little more wiring to sort.

 

The wiring is not a problem either as I have done plenty of electrical installation work and have a good relationship with an electrician who tests and signs anything I need certified off. Not had an issue yet!

 

I do not know the thickness of the concrete slab but it is not residential so 'should' be quite thick.I will do a drill test to see. Also done plenty of ground works so that would only be a major inconvenience rather than a deal breaker.

 

The main issue I think is the bulk of the unit, not easy to get to new location (15 miles ish) and certainly not a one man job so I would have to factor in help time and compensation (beer) but other than that I am obviously thinking of Christmas list filling for myself 

[michael1703]

I've bought/disassembled/sold a few and own a couple

 

4 posters are my favourite, two posters are a faff

 

I've got a stenhoj major which I bought for £350 and a Hoffmann quadralift which was £500, both came with jacking beams.

 

Both have mechanical brakes in the form that they have ratchets in to square holes in each leg, the idea is that if a rope snaps it can't fall more than 40mm

 

Ropes are £125-£200

 

On two posters you have a lift nut and a safety nut, they are brass and sacrificial so the screw doesn't wear

 

I would budget for new nuts on a two poster, that's two lift nuts and two safety nuts, they are about £40+vat each.

 

I

[michael1703]

I've moved ramps on my own, I've got some old sunblessed bread trolleys from a supermarket

 

You put the side of the ramp with the ram on the trolley, then the other side isn't too heavy, the crossmembers at the end are about 60-80kg and the legs are about 40kg

 

The leg with the motor on is a bit unwieldy on your own though

[brickwall]

I read that you need 6 inches of high stress concrete for a decent lift. Is that correct?

[twosmoke300]

For a two poster yes

[garbaldy]

The information sheet that came with the new lift stated 8 inch.

[Bear]

This the one?

 

http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct.asp?pCode=091.960

 

If so that looks like it would be more than adequate for most jobs. Take it you wouldn't need much height in the garage either?

 

Yes, that's the bunny. I'd say from a shiter perspective, it needs careful planning if you want to do sill welding due to the deep (to fit many sizes of car) rails, and the current design has a floor brace that would make using a transmission jack awkward - though access for exhausts/props isn't bad and because it's small/simple you can always mix it up a bit with the supports on a job like that - use the lift to get to the fastenings, and then lower onto good axle stands to get clearance back. For suspension, steering, service, gearboxes, it's good - 580mm lift, so enough to scoot under on a creeper and work reasonably upright. I'd originally intended to show it in the single car garage here, where it would fit and be entirely usable, but it isn't as portable as you might think. 450Kg and the wheels don't give much clearance.

 

They've told me that weather-wise, it should be fine under a carport (can be bolted down) as long as the hydraulic pump is protected, and yes, go right ahead and use a pressure washer under it etc. so I'm doing the SLK's underside very thoroughly now. Security is simple but effective, it loses no height for days on end anyway but the safety catch stops a Mercedes E320 estate if released at full pelt accidentally. Shudders a bit, and you'll shit yourself if you're under it, but the stains will only be the brown ones in your pants, not the red ones on the concrete.

 

Plates are fractionally too short for a long wheelbase car like the S210, but I have a schematic to get some extension plates made up. You can't/shouldn't use it to raise just one end, though personally (not professionally, not advocating this AT ALL) I think it should be okay for doing things  like raising the front of a car to burp the cooling system.

 

Flat floor is required, but nothing like the integrity required for a four or two post lift.

 

I figure amortizing the cost of a £1500 lift over, say, three years of cars for most typical enthusiasts is £100/car. It easily saves that in hassle and misery. Even just doing the diff oil and transmission oil on my SLK can be called £200 of paying for a specialist (who doesn't do it anyway, not that I'm disgusted by that. Oh, wait, yes, I am). It's also very handy for quickly lifting a car you might be buying if you can test drive it home, and checking underneath for damage - my E-class revealed much sign of off-road excursions that weren't visible when just looked at by the side of the road even with the cameras and lights I use.

 

Plus single phase (it does have a 16A plug but it runs off 13A just fine), should be easy to resell should you not want it anymore, won't make the council think you've set up a sneaky business, shouldn't cause guests to your house to go under it and do something stupid and expensive for insurance (I have heard the sound of a four-poster with car on suffer failed security latches and jesus, the noise enough would put you in hospital). You're not going to go under the car unless you have to, unlike a full lift where a car hovering in the air becomes part of the scenery alarmingly quickly.

[michael1703]

Nobody mentioned a pit yet?