honda ima - better than a prius??

[hairnet]

seeing as everytime i walk to the chippy theres a mk1 prius sat there

 

and i had for the mk1 insight that was at shitefest

 

been looking at mk2 insights (3 door mk1s are £££££ and 2 door and ££ tax and hard for bits and no boot etc)

 

and honda imas - shame theyre not hatches and apart from the early ones (pre 05) theyre auto

 

what does the resident insight people think??

 

 

 

 

cant stretch to that although

 

 

this would be nice

[Noel Tidybeard]

i would start with our own bentley man on the subject of ima

[dollywobbler]

Mk2 Insight is pretty much pointless unless you do a lot of town driving. Same goes for the Prius. You'd probably be better off just buying a conventional hatchback. 

[Asimo]

Probably not but.....

 

Don't forget the Civic IMA. Invisible Japanese to look at, (early ones have those lovely wheels like the Insight) much cheaper than a Mk1 Insight, and much easier to live with too I should think. Plenty of manuals as well. Post 2002 means £20 Tax, earlier than that is ordinary £££. The Civic won't be the 70mpg car that my Insight is, but I expect 60 mpg is achievable.  

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Civic-IMA-1-4-Hybrid-2005-Very-Economical-20-Road-Tax-Year-/121784619318?hash=item1c5aedd136

 

I am not entirely convinced by the IMA side of my Insight. It works perfectly despite its 15 year old batteries but it seems a lot of complexity for what is probably only a little gain in economy and performance compared to an Insight with all of the hybrid parts missing. Of all of the cars I have had, it is the one that takes the most work to drive, to get the most from the performance or the most from a gallon. Which is great if I am in the mood, but not when I just want to get to work, waking up on the way.

 

The Toyota type Hybrid I find more interesting in concept, I would like to try at length. The economy possible is highly dependant upon the duty, perhaps more so than any other car type.  My very limited experience,  a hybrid Yaris, indicates a really relaxing, smooth drive is possible. Which appeals for the low speed bimble to work etc and I would like my wife to buy one for me to play with (Negotiations ongoing.........) Such a shame they are so achingly dull in other ways.

[panhard65]

My dad has a mk2 Insight and I have a Prius in this morning to sort out the overheated brakes that it suffered in the south of France. I personally prefer the Prius as it is a lot more like an electric car and therefore slightly different. The Honda seem to always use the engine unless you are braking when it cuts out. Where as the Prius will start off in full electric mode. Both will give good fuel consumption and are very similar in a boring way. Rear vision is not good but slightly worse in the Prius. It also appears that engine braking is a problem in the Prius even when putting it in the gear that is supposed to allow it to engine brake. My customer did say he came down a mountain and was braking for a good couple of miles and had smoke pouring off the front brakes by the time he got to the bottom. I don't really like either but it is interesting new technology.

[Asimo]

In normal driving there is never any engine braking available with the Toyota hybrids. On a trailing throttle regenerative braking ie charging the batteries, is quite strong.

 

But once the batteries are fully charged then "engine braking" effect will drop to zero.

 

There is a B position on the transmission lever which selects real engine braking, for long downhills. Does your customer understand this?

 

Edit - just fully read your post - doh.

[xtriple]

I'm 'quite' fond of my Insight mk2. It helps that prices have firmed up a lot recently and the Honda dealer has them up for more than I paid for mine (from them) a year and a bit ago.

 

Yes, the engine is always running but I believe it does clever things to cut down the engines resistance when just using the electric bit. It uses the engine all the time 'cos the electric motor is between the  engine and gearbox. Performance varies from dire, to not toooooo bad, bit is never sparkling and on the motorway it is seriously underwhelming. If a lot of motorway driving is your thing, forget one! Round town and A and B roads, it's great though and economy is excellent. On a normal run around town it does mid 40s (that's cold start and three miles) but on an A road cruise that is often up around 65mpg which I think is pretty bloody good!

 

The brakes do sweet FA if used gently, it's all regenerative stuff and the first time you use them, it can be a bit of a shock as the regen stuff cuts out at seven mph and there is a tiny, but perceptible lag before the normal brakes take over. After that first 'scare' it never bothers you again. Only downside seems to be that the brakes go quite rusty unless used a lot...

 

I'm not a fan of CVT gearboxes but the Honda' seems pretty good. It never screams its tits off like an old Daf and it always has adequate response. You can put it in 'sport' and it is much more responsive or use the paddles and have 7 (simulated) gears. Then, it feels much more normal and the revs rise and fall like a standard car gearbox. But, I can't be arsed! It's good fun to play with the paddles for about 15 minutes then you never touch them again, unless going for an overtake when you just click down a couple (regardless of selector lever setting) and it  takes off (sort of) like kickdown but with zero delay. The automated clutch feels a little strange on occasion when it seems indecisive but most of the time, you never notice it.

 

The steering, A/C and everything else is electric so it goes into 'autostop' all the time but if the aircon is on a high setting, that stop can be rather short which makes if feel utterly pointless and irritates me. If you turn the A/C off, it will remain stopped for an entire traffic light sequence and more but move the steering or release the brake pedal and the engine fires straight back up. Not a fan, but most moderns have it so get used to it....

 

There is no starter motor (there is actually but the car never uses it... apparently) and it uses the IMA motor to start the car, which is cool - no whirring or anything, just flick the key and release and the engine is running. That, amuses me constantly.

 

The steering is utterly 'dead'. No feel whatsoever and it's very direct so takes a bit of getting used to, but it's nicely weighted and the steering wheel itself is lovely: thick leather rim and the design of the wheel itself is very pleasing and it feels like a quality item to touch/use. Mine has all the controls for the stereo/cruise/etc on it and they all work perfectly, I never use the other controls, no need. On the motorway at 70 odd I found it quite twitchy but closing the back windows made a hell of a difference to stability (Chester NEEDS the windows open at all times!) so I suppose aerodynamics come into play quite a bit. Its CD is very low at 0.25 so wind noise is non existent but they are susceptible to cross winds.

 

Interior plastics feel cheap and flimsy and not Honda quality at all. But, nicely finished and look okay and in 15 months of dog abuse in the back there is no damage/scratches or anything so I guess the 'feel' is deceptive. They feel like they have been thinned out to cut weight (1250KG) and weight saving is evident in several areas: noise suppression, plastics, being the main ones. The carpets are great quality and not that cheap thin shit that is impossible to hoover and all in all, it's a nice place to sit. The seats, are wonderful: comfortable with a multitude of adjustments so even I can get comfortable!

 

Fit and finish is Honda Japan quality. Doors shut with a re-assuring clunk and shutlines are tight and even. The paint finish is superb and the paint seems tough, unlike a lot of modern cars where if you so much as look at them wrong, they scratch! Everything works perfectly. Auto lights/wipers are surprisingly good and don't fuck about, just come on as and when appropriate and go off in a similar fashion. It has loads of goodies as standard and they all work exactly as advertised.  There are NO rattles, clanks or creaks and it feels like it will last forever!

 

Suspension is good, though my son who borrowed it at the weekend says it's 'under-sprung and over-damped' but he works as a development engineer for JLR so what does he know? In use, it's fine. Not sporty, not stodgy, not plush, just suspension that does its job to an acceptable degree so you never notice it, so it must be okay.

 

I think the styling is pretty good, certainly better looking than a 'Pious' and they seem to slip under the radar as Honda never made a song and dance about them the way Toyota did so you don't get the 'eco-warrior' banner that Prious owners are afflicted with.

 

Would I have another?

 

That's always the telling question for owners and in this case, yes, I would. I am still in two minds as to what to do with it: I don't need two cars, and if I did, it would make sense for one of them to be cheap and disposable rather than two pricey buggers, but I really like the Honda and don't want to get rid of it. Yes, it's a 'quirky' little bugger and some days it drives totally differently to the way it did the day before - sometimes it feels so gutless you think the handbrake is on (which I never use so it's not that) and others it feels like a little sports car as it's so willing. It rarely feels identical two days running and I like that! Really staves off boredom... Some days it seems to use electric more than others and some days it seems to have more available so it lasts longer, and then, out of the blue, it will have none! Something in its little computer mind says, 'oh no lads, we need to do a regen' and it does. The whole electrical system will flatten itself and re-charge from flat as you are driving. You don't really notice other than it feels a bit gutless but I watch all the gauges as they fascinate me!

 

Great cars and a huge following in the states. Hope that helps?

[Asimo]

 it uses the IMA motor to start the car, which is cool - no whirring or anything, just flick the key and release and the engine is running. That, amuses me constantly.

 

I forgot to mention this: I think it is my favourite  aspect of the car. When the start stop function is engaged, I feel really smug with silent engine starts if surrounded by all of those wheezing-starter bluebowelmovement VAG cars.

 

Some days it seems to use electric more than others and some days it seems to have more available so it lasts longer, and then, out of the blue, it will have none! Something in its little computer mind says, 'oh no lads, we need to do a regen' and it does. The whole electrical system will flatten itself and re-charge from flat as you are driving. You don't really notice other than it feels a bit gutless but I watch all the gauges as they fascinate me!

 

This variable performance is because of the variable charge state of the batteries My car was really bad for this until I started charging the battery about once a month. Doing this ensures that the weakest cells in the pack are as fully charged as they can be. This type of battery self-discharges quite quickly even when new so IMA cars really don't like occasional use or repeated short journeys.

[hairnet]

Mk2 Insight is pretty much pointless unless you do a lot of town driving. Same goes for the Prius. You'd probably be better off just buying a conventional hatchback. 

mammy does between 3-4k a year and doesnt do motorways

 

only if i use it then it might do 500 miles in one go but that doesnt happen as regular as it did

 

early civic ima far too much like what we have and i know shed turn up her nose and say oh its too old........ - i was looking at them cos v cheap but leggy

 

was looking at irish ones cos easy to get and cheaper but done more miles - 385 tax compared to 10/20 quid here

 

but found a nice ima in brum for same ££ and half the miles of theirs

[Honey Badger]

CR-Z or is that too low down for your mum, that is definitely only a 2 seater though.

 

We test drove a newish IMA and I wasn't a fan if I'm honest, the CVT box was OK but the engine sounded like a wounded water buffalo under the floor, it did feel tinny as well but perversley well put together.

 

1.4 Pez civic would probably be just as good to be honest.

[hairnet]

already have pez ep 3 civic

[willswitchengage]

Best electric car ever

 

[HH-R]

I looked at a Civic saloon hybrid as a work hack before I got my Kia, they're really cheap for what you get and their age.

 

Was really tempted but since no one I tried could cope with fixing the electrical issue with my Fiat Panda, I could just imagine the IMA stuff buggering up 6 months down the line and me having to get rid at a massive loss again. Was scared off, probably why they're cheap.

[MarvinsMom]

no experience of the pious, but i did borrow and crah a mark 1 honda thing.

 

in a tesco car park, was slowing down behind, of all things a mark 4 xr3i when the honda took off, and couldn't stop it!!

 

no matter how hard i pressed on the pedal either!!

 

my foot had slipped off of the brake onto the throttle (i guess) and it been an auto......

 

whallopped the back of the xr3, and destroyed the front of the honda-it was like i had set a bomb off on the front of the honda....

 

and the escort?

 

not a scratch, no mark on the bumper, nothing!

 

the honda was a bloody mess though.....

[hairnet]

I looked at a Civic saloon hybrid as a work hack before I got my Kia, they're really cheap for what you get and their age.

 

Was really tempted but since no one I tried could cope with fixing the electrical issue with my Fiat Panda, I could just imagine the IMA stuff buggering up 6 months down the line and me having to get rid at a massive loss again. Was scared off, probably why they're cheap.

dont think theres been an elec failure of a hybrid to date

[HH-R]

No doubt I'd be the first, I can break anything. The Jonah of electricity.

[sierraman]

It's the way forward probably, though when you think about it the motor needs no maintainance itself, surprises me how long the batteries last.

[Noel Tidybeard]

as has been mentioned the IMA system is sandwiched betwixt engine and gearbox so the engine is always turning that is not to say it is running

 

honda made the engine very resistance free so that the car can run in an electric mode but it still turns- this can be seen on the dash when the correct display is selected, there is a small EV that shows when car is running on leccy and the charge/assist needle swings a little into the asst side of gauge

 

something else to note is the insight is a different car to a civic ima as the insight is jazz based

 

my grandads buddy had an insight followed by a jazz hybrid and he said the insight wasnt as happy on motorways as its bigger/heavier than jazz

 

the ima system does have a 12v starter motor but this is only used if the 100v system is down

they do not however have an alternator

the 100v system will charge if you rev engine above 2000 revs whilst in neutral

[New POD]

My customer did say he came down a mountain and was braking for a good couple of miles and had smoke pouring off the front brakes by the time he got to the bottom.

 

Dick Head?

 

He basically did the same brake test that Lucas Car Braking used to do, before they bought test rigs to do it safely in the lab. (but they still did it because real world validates test rig)

So for anyone in any car off to the alps. Here is the POD tip.

 

a) Change fluid before going to alps

Brake VERY hard for short time. Release brake, thus allowing air to cool them. brake VERY Hard for short time. Release brake thus allowing air to cool them.

c) THE WORST thing. THE VERY WORST thing, is to keep your foot on the brake for all that distance. No cooling of brakes at all.