LPG - any experiences?

[Timewaster]

My current facination is with lpg converted shite.I started looking at XJ300 Jags, but then the tightarse in me thought - If a mangey old Jag could be run at a reasonable cost, How cheap would a normal car be to run?There are a few mk4 Astras (sorry pog.) on eBay for far far too much money, but wasn't there a dual fuel option on other stuff? Protons perhaps?Anybody run LPG? Is it really that cheap?The cheapest thing I ever ran was a Rover 115 (Diesel metro - sorry again pog.)Converted cars seen to carry a hefty premium. Maybe if I do the maths, I'll discover it wont be worth the initial outlay (as seems to be the case with a lot of diesels at the moment).Discuss.

[Volksy]

As standard I think Vauxhall and Volvo offered 'Dual fuel' as an option. my advice if you buy one is to keep it all seviced at least yearly.

[55bloke]

My brother runs a Rover 800 Stirling with LPG conversion, and he loves it! Here's a pic with some of the rest of his fleet. The Scorpio has since gone.

[pogweasel]

... and I was all like 'meh'. We bought a Mk4 Astra 'Dual Fuel' last year, terribly hard to get the gas into it, plus it would often stubbornly refuse to run on it and would go back to petrol for no good reason. Not a hugely efficient 'base' car (1600 16v), so probably running costs not much cheaper than a good diesel driven sensibly. Add into the mix that it was an Astra so terrible to drive and thrown together in the most slapdash fashion imaginable (and this was on a supposedly 'hi-spec' car) we were glad to see the back of it. Sure the diesel Picasso we have now is slightly more £ on fuel, but it is cheaper to tax, insure and maintain.

[155V6]

A few years back at work,we were given a Sprinter van to use which ran on diesel & LPG.It was quicker than a normal one,& supposedly cheaper to run.The disadvantages were a big box to house the tank in the rear of the van,& having to go out of my way to fill up with LPG when everyone filled up with diesel at the yard.It was OK until the fuel pump exploded one morning covering the road in fuel.Then the van was taken away,never to be seen again

[Hutch]

My Volvo 240 runs on a 100% LPG system - big tank in the boot and smaller linked tank where the petrol tank used to be. I had it converted a couple of years ago by a guy in North Wales who is an expert on both 240's and LPG.

 

An LPG filler is located where the usual petrol filler would be. I would take some pics of the installation but my camera is currently US.

 

The engine takes a litle longer to fire up from cold but otherwise runs realy smoothly. Its really important to keep things like the plugs, HT leads, rota arm and dizzy in good condition as LPG needs slightly more juice to ignite and when these items deteriorate the engine wont run as smoothly.

 

There can be occassional backfires (Ive only had it once) which can rupture the standard air box fitted to the induction sytem so removing this and replacing it with a cone filter is a good move.

 

As regards MPG gas is not quite as efficient so this is slightly down - not by much though. The 240 used to do 25MPG on petrol, I figure it is about 22MPG on gas. Gas seems to vary a lot in price. Round these parts its averaging 48p per litre at the moment.

 

A number of people thought that I was mad when I went for a 100% conversion - as in what will you do if you run out or cant find a filling station? Well with both tanks full minimum range is 300miles and I keep an up to date directory in the car with all EU stations. Driving down through France last year wasnt a problem (other than you have to cross the channel on a ferry - they wont let you go through the tunnel!)

 

[Pete-M]

I've had a multitude of LPG converted Range Rovers. They're great once they're set up properly, but the pikey converted ones with the huge tank instead of a boot are just irritating.Multi-point sequential LPG systems rocketh mightily. We've got a 2.3 Transit with the factory one fitted and it's truly brilliant. If you can find an X300 with a good, multi-point, LPG system and a sensible tank I'd say go for it. By sensible tank, I don't mean the cheap ones with the massive huge barrel in the boot - a spare wheel tank is fine. Ok, you don't get a 300 mile range, but you can fill 'em for around £25 anyway.

[CortinaDave]

I've had mixed fortunes with LPG. I had a single point system fitted to a calibra 8 valve and after some teething problems had 30k trouble free miles of cheap as chips motoring. The kit has now been transferred to my 95 ford probe which runs well on it for a few thousand miles before backfiring and taking out the air box and MAF sensor.I've just invested in some expensive plugs and leads which will hopefully help the problem, but meantime its a pain in the arse.I ran a vectra which had a multipoint kit fitted to it for a while and it was a better system overall, no grief from it whatsoever

[j-j]

Hi Tontops, both of my retro Cits run on LPG 100% of the time and so far it has been 100% trouble free! Both are DIY systems and one has recently passed the COP11 safety inspection.

Maybe if I do the maths, I'll discover it wont be worth the initial outlay

- it can be expensive to buy some mobile with gas fitted but if you do the miles and keep the car long enough it becomes a sunk cost and you just live the high life of mega cheap fuel and relatively clean emissions. There are some other advantages too: running on LPG all the time actually decokes the 'head, if you change the oil and filter, the oil stays clean for a surprisingly long time - I changed the oild in the CX in May last year when it was converted and it is still like new! - I do not exaggerate! The engine runs hotter but once it's settled down after a cold start it is actually quieter. With a well set up system there will be no real change in performance. My CX has a special variable orifice gas mixer that allows zero performance change on gas and very quick cold starts. The BX has a simple ring gas mixer that starts from cold and runs well but seems very slightly down on performance over petrol (usually going up steep hills) The CX has a 2.4 which, with my love for small engines is BIG by my standards, it also uses a torque convertor for the semi auto 'box so it's a bit of a drinker. On Petrol it seemed to deliver about 19mpg on average to a high of about 25mpg (lucky) - as has been said, LPG delivers less mpg for the same liquid volume as petrol (not worse than 80%) so say 80% range but at half the price of petrol turns a sobering 18mpg into the equivalent 29mpg and the 'high' would be about 40mpg eqivalent so I think it's definitely worth it.Also now the BX is running on gas, the 1.6 motor delivered 28- 40 mpg on petrol that becomes a cost equivalent of 45-64mpg now so approaching the best claimed figures of modern 'eco' cars and super minis. I also reckon LPG makes a lot more sense on old cars as they're simpler and therefore the opportunity to DIY fit it is there (for the same reason an LPG installer -should- charge less to convert and old car than a new one) and in the present world LPG makes a lot of sense. Whether it'll remain the best choice alternative fuel for cars in the future is open to debate though...

[andrew e]

I run a 523 E39 on sequential gas, its good but no wonder fuel.I lose about 10% on economy and umpth - about 27mpg, and 95 ron v 97 ron octane umpth. Normally it swaps after a few hundred yards, but recently the -3 5am starts have meant a manual swap over when the tempreture gauge hits the normal, unless you want the rodeo bull effect. Takes for ever to fill up too, which grinds when you stick 50 litres in every two days. I'm running a donut tank fitted by a Polish guy - they are familiar with the stuff it seems. I'm coming up for 19,000 miles on gas now, and the filter either end does pick us some crud - feck knows where it comes from! (Yes I did hacksaw the filter in half to find out )I checked out a lot of experts... its worring... even the LPGA ones make you think, I'd buy converted and take a stone cold engine test drive

[Guest]

A few years back at work,we were given a Sprinter van to use which ran on diesel & LPG.

sounds a strange combination - did it have coil and spark plugs?

[Des]

I believe the diesel LPG thing is just a small whiff of gas added to the inlet, engine runs on diesel as normal, but the gas mix makes for a more complete combustion, less emissions, more power, better economy unless / until you spunk it away by using the extra power.I've found LPG to be pretty good, although 1 - 2 K install cost, horror stories, inept fitters and general ignorance have prevented it becoming popular, this is probably just as well, remember what happened to the cost of diesel as all those millions of dismal dervmobiles appeared.The difference in running between petrol and lpg should be barely noticeable, so much as one backfire, ever, even once in 5 years, or a lack of power, any difficulty starting means the system was installed / setup by a cunt. It is not difficult, even the injection setups, not at all difficult, if a converted car cannot run on gas without issue or compromise for many many thousands of miles, then some cunt who shouldn't be let loose on a wheelbarrow has butchered it into, at worst, a napalmmobile. Sadly, membership of some association will fool the best of people into handing over their cash. There are of course good installers out there, if you can find one then it's cheap running without the misery of being a divvy dervy.

[CortinaDave]

Gas converted autoshite on the bay of e for 200 notes. Short ticket though and only 2 hrs to go

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-ASTRA-ES ... 240%3A1318

[pompei]

A pal of mine had an Alfasud with an LPG conversion, which I borrowed for a few months. We went to Holland in it once to an Alfa weekend and took it round the circuit (memory lapse - can't remember the name)Performance was down, starting was poor but ecomomy up! even when you switched back to petrol it still wouldn't run properly. Having said that, a carb engine with glorified DIY fitting is not the best example. I looked into having a multi point conversion done on the Lexarse but have been told that it can lead to valve seat erosion on some cars, including this one. I have no idea if that is true or just bollocks. There seems to be a load of gobshiters out there.Also, make sure that it is an insurance-friendly conversion, ie with a certificate, otherwise Mr Churchill may well be saying Oh No.

[gtd2000]

Working over here in Holland the availability of LPG is extremely good.

 

I calculated that after approximately 7 months of use I could "pay off" (break even) an LPG installation but after listening to many people who have experience of LPG I'm still not convinced it is a truly reliable solution.

 

Most of the people I know over here had the systems installed by (presumably) more knowledgeable European fitters and they have not had a trouble free ride either.

 

Back in April/May last year I took a trip out to the Philippines for a couple of weeks - it was US$400 for an LPG kit fitted

 

When I look at the components of an LPG kit on eBay etc - I really can't see where the money is

 

MY DD Proton Persona ( ) has actually averaged 39 MPG over the year with a high of 45.4 mpg - that's actual calculated MPG and not some figment of the imagination estimate - like my mates wifes Golf Diesel that got 56~57mpg but in reality got 45 mpg

 

If I could get the financial equivalent of approx 80mpg I'd be very pleased indeed but so far the reliability factor puts me off - not to mention the ludicrous cost to convert

[TheScrapman]

This is my current daily

 

 

1998 s320 with LPG. I paid £800 for it with a years ticket and a couple months rent.

 

It came with a nicely fitted sequential ecu controlled system. I honestly can't tell the difference when running on either fuel, it runs on petrol, then automatically flicks to LPG after a couple of minutes - never even notice it switching over. It averages 22mpg on gas. Our local Tesco (0.8 miles from work) sells LPG for 45.9. Big comfy banganomic barge motoring. Lovely.

 

I've installed and run several basic LPG systems over the years on old Mercs and my Dodge camper, and power / mpg is obviously down. The dodge runs lovely on gas, but it runs out of puff at higher revs due to the restriction the mixer places on the intake. J-j's advise on the BLOS device will hopefully cure this.

 

...means the system was installed / setup by a cunt.

Thanks for your constructive comment Des but a lot of it comes down to the quality of the components you use. A cheap open-loop system on a k-jet for example *will* give the odd backfire no matter how clever you are.

 

From my experience, LPG is certainly cost effective if you do high miles, can install it yourself or if you buy shite with it already installed.

[Andrew353w]

Had a Skoda Felicia converted in 2001 and reckon I had my money back in a year! It was a professional conversion, done by a garage recommended by Skoda (the car was under warranty at the time) and I was covering 20,000 miles a year. Petrol was about 70p/litre & gas half that. As to performance, the MPG was down from 40-45 to 35-40, and round town I felt it wasn't as nippy (but still perfectly quick!) but on the motorway it was MUCH quicker! The gas converters said this is quite normal, as the gas burns as a "woosh" whereas petrol burns with a "bang". You get a more gradual burn with the gas, so at high engine speeds the cylinder is pushed for a longer period but at slower engine speeds this makes the car a bit (only a bit) slower.The petrol strikes in 2001 were fun-I was totally unaffected! I think I was the only car moving in Barnet at one point! Gas is delivered by different drivers to petrol!Sold it in 2003 to a guy who bought it for ONE reason-that it ran on gas! Totally recommend it! Did an MOT on a LPG converted 1986 (D) VW Polo the other day-the emissions test was as good as a catalytic car-that says it all, doesn't it?Andrew353w

[Milford Cubicle]

I am thinking about converting my recent acquisition to LPG as I think it's a keeper.Question is, is it more complicated/costly to convert a fuel injection car? I guess the answer is 'yes'Having only 3 cylinders should help though...

[pogweasel]

Having only 3 cylinders should help though...

I am praying it's a 1989 Charade GTTi, and not a 1999 Corsa 1.0 Envoy....

[andrew e]

I reckon a Justy

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I have converted a car to run on LPG, itwas the Fiat 130 now owned by Mirafiori man off here. He's too polite to say wahta bag of shite the conversion was, but I had endless problems with it, all of which were down to the absolutley PISS POOR quality of the parts in the LPG kit. The changeover switch died almost straight away after installation, I exchanged it for another which lasted less than a week. The fuel gauge on the tank never worked. The petrol solenoid had a casting flaw which meant petrol squirted out of it all the time! Obviously never had any sort of pressure test ever. Eventually I removed all parts except the tank, pipe, vapouriser and mixer and ran it on LPG all the time, which was not great, as it took ages for the system to get warm and if the car stalled before it has got warm, it would not run again till the vapouriser had thawed out (20 min wait). However once it was warmed up it would run on LPG all day no problem, and it meant I could drive about 6000 miles over a summer in the 130 which I could never have done if i'd had to buy proper fuel. Verdict: LPG conversions are great, but watch out for shite quality 'Voltran' kits from Romania.

[andrew e]

I have a sequential polski "STAG" set up, quality seems o.k.

 

BTW Mr_B what promted the install? Just to see if you could?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

nah it was a 13mpg thirst which promprted the install! I thought it couldnt be as hard as all that so I gave it a whirl. Its pretty straightforward stuff on an old carb-equipped engine.