DIY SOS (sort out shite)

[Uncle Jimmy]

Thinking over the last few years of motor madness, one thing I've noticed is how difficult it is to find tradesmen to do jobs on the cars I've had. It's not been to do with money, just their indifference to doing the jobs.

This goes for mechanics, body shops, auto electricians. This has forced me to do a lot of stuff myself; good up to a point but I already do about 5 different trades and I've got limited space.

I read recently that the number of body shops has dropped to the point where insurers are having difficulty sorting out repairs.

To me, those kind of jobs seem well paid and interesting; why aren't more people queuing up to do them?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Are they well paid? my feeling is that all motor trade jobs are very badly paid.

[dave21478]

Pay isnt great, technology advances really fast meaning you need to be investing a lot in training and equipment to keep up, overheads are high and more and more young people dont want to learn a manual job since apparently everyone can be a tv/internet celebrity instead.

[Pillock]

They appear to pay well (£50+ per hour labour) but then with the amount of specialist bollockery you need it probably eats a chunk of that. Garages need tens of thousands of pounds worth of kit to read codes and clear a "washer bottle empty" fault light.

 

Also, garages are one of the few places you pay for labour directly so it seems like they're well paid. If you have someone build an extension, you pay for the job not per hour. When you buy a TV from Currys you're not told how much of the price is for the wages of the person who served you.

[Uncle Jimmy]

I'm self employed, I charge £20/hr. Sometimes I don't make that rate. They seem well paid to me. Yes, they have overheads, so do other tradesmen.

Are they well paid? my feeling is that all motor trade jobs are very badly paid.

Blimey Bollox, many buggers are scratching around on or near minimum wage, that's badly paid.

I will grant that dealerships fleece their staff mind you....

[Dippy]

Tradesmen in this country are looked down on by people in suits and with the advances in technology young people probably see this as a bad career. I find it quite funny when im looked down on in a shop because im wearing my overalls and have often been ignored or spoken to rudely by staff as I must not look as though I could afford their wares.

 

Half of the youngsters in suits are doing crap jobs but it seems the suit elevates them to a higher status.

My job does not require me to even wear overalls any more as I am off the tools now but as soon as I get a free hour at work im in the workshop messing with my cars and feel more comfortable in my overalls anyway.

[vulgalour]

Yes, we can do your job, pick two from the following list:

> Well

> Quickly

> Cheaply

 

Surprising how many people want all three.  That's why there's less garages to do the work.  The ones that do exist pick and choose the most profitable for them based on their own particular overheads.  There's the nightmare of meeting regulations, bylaws, avoiding neighbour complaints, being messed about by suppliers, having customers change their mind half way through a job, finding other jobs that need doing to fix the first job that adds more expense...  Unlike building a sandwich in Subway or making a till go beep, car repair and maintenance is skilled and complicated work for the most part with a lot of expenses the customer will never see.  The labour charge is only the smallest bit of the cost involved really.

[Uncle Jimmy]

Hummmm. Must start wearing a suit.

[Uncle Jimmy]

What Vulgalour says is true. I don't suggest mechanics should accept poor pay. I was quoted £45/hr labour for a job recently and practically gave the guy carte blanche to do what ever was required. 3 months later and countless visits/calls I gave up.

Currently I have a set of alloys in for stripping and spraying; I accepted his price, 4 months later and several visits; still waiting. That's the third company I've tried. Jokes aside, perhaps I should wear a suit and talk 'posh'.

[vulgalour]

I think the key really is to be really clear about timescale, budget and work done and insist on regular updates.  A good garage will offer this and while you might have to pay a bit more you get a better job at the end of it.  Damned hard to find them though!  Trouble is, many mechanics haven't done much, if any, customer service and as a result don't always understand why radio silence for two weeks can lead to an upset customer, let alone dragging a job out for months.

[twosmoke300]

Where are you getting 50 quid an hour from ? That may be the garages labour rate but staff will prob be on 10 to 12 and supply thousands of pounds worth of tools . I run a small garage and my labour rate is 25 an hour . I take home 1000 a month ! I'm not going to say their ain't perks but the amount of kit you need to buy is frightening .

Also you need to put money aside for tax/ goodwill/ cock ups

[Uncle Jimmy]

^^^considered moving?

[dave21478]

yeah, because new premises are free and building up a new customer base is dead easy.

[twosmoke300]

The main problem is that any decent tradesman will be busy . Beware the ones that aren't .

So if they are busy doing easy routine quick turnaround stuff they won't want to take on something snaggy . I do take on hospital jobs ( long termers) but the last one was there for a year and I prob won't be too keen to have many more .

[Uncle Jimmy]

yeah, because new premises are free and building up a new customer base is dead easy.

I was being humorous David. Come back down from up there.

[twosmoke300]

Just read vulgs post properly .spot on

[alf892]

The bit abouts insurance companies having trouble finding body shops is a bit ironic when it is their practices that have driven them out of business. I used to inspect body shops and workshop for a trade association (theirs) and the list of requirements was very costly and then tied them down to a low hourly rate.........and then went further to shag them into lengthy payment terms. And they wonder where they went?

 

Not quite so bad in mechanical but as two smoke says you've got a big investment in kit to be able to do work. The days when an old school place keen get a living fixing up old school motors for cheapskates are maybe numbered.

 

There will always be specialists and good ones will be in demand. Trouble is it seems that as if they become successful the business expands and so does the overhead...........so prices go up!

 

For many years I did kerbside autos and had a good number of regular customers ......I came very close to taking the plunge but fear/having a young family stopped me. I rarely turned anything down and did a good job for a reasonable price but even then people would sometimes query parts cost. I just used to tell them to get the bits themselves in the end or stop answering their calls.

 

There are good people out there........word of mouth is best way to find them.

[catsinthewelder]

I keep being asked to fix cars but end up charging about £5 per hour for the time I actually spend on them.  I should just man up and buy new bits like a garage rather than fixing the old ones like a shitter but it's mates who can't afford garage bills that ask me so it's hard to be ruthless.

 

I'm also run off my feet with work at the moment so taking on any jobs that will take more than a couple of hours is a bit risky if I don't want a load of other peoples dismantled vehicles blocking mine in.

[stripped fred]

I use an independent Alfa specialist for the more difficult jobs on my car. Basic servicing, brakes etc I will do myself but as my tools are limited and I'm working on my driveway and need the car for work most jobs I get him to do especially as it's not the easiest car to work on. He's not that cheap but he does a good job and he looks after me and will often fix smaller things for free or give me advice on how to do things myself. We have a good arrangement which suits us both. My advice is to choose carefully and when you find a decent garage/body shop/welder hold on to them. They are out there but you need to do your research. Recommendations from others counts for a lot.

[the judge]

Cheap mechanics are always busy. And always have many many friends. No co incidence. Thank god i got out,letting people borrow my car and earining 25 quid on a sunday. All bollocks

[HH-R]

Genuine question, whenever I go to a garage with an EML problem, they charge £35 or whatever because the machine costs £5k+ but the problem is never solved or they don't try because it it could be one of many things needing replacement. Heard many similar stories from family etc, so are these fancy machines really any better than the £15 Autel ones off eBay which will just rhyme off what the ECU thinks is fooked? Are they just not used to their full potential? Or do the garage just want rid of the job 'cos it might come back again?

[Barry Cade]

Genuine question, whenever I go to a garage with an EML problem, they charge £35 or whatever because the machine costs £5k+ but the problem is never solved or they don't try because it it could be one of many things needing replacement. Heard many similar stories from family etc, so are these fancy machines really any better than the £15 Autel ones off eBay which will just rhyme off what the ECU thinks is fooked? Are they just not used to their full potential? Or do the garage just want rid of the job 'cos it might come back again?

Time. Diagnostics give an idea on where to start investigating usually, but to be able to say 100% with certainty that you can fix the problem may take an hour, 6 hours or 2 days, and the part needed to get the light to go off and stay off may be a grand. Garages know most people will drift away at this point. If a garage diagnoses a fault, fits or repairs a part, and it doesn't fix it....then that car is your problem for ever more. We are in exactly this situation with an old 307 SW, because rear pads... we are over 600 quid in it, a courtesy car down for 10 days and still no further forward.

[twosmoke300]

It all depends on the customer tbh , if you go in saying about what you read on the net and it's gonna be such and such and that you don't want to spend anything then a plug in and code read is what you will get . If you go in and ask for the fault to be fixed but keep me informed along the way regards to cost you will get more in depth diagnosis . As I said in the diagnostic thread , live data is where it's at for more in depth problems and cheapy obie wan ken obie tools don't do that .

[michael1703]

I run a small garage which started as classic car restoration only, then I started doing mot testing and now I get modern shit to fix when I fail them.

 

I'd rather not fix the modern stuff, the parts prices I charge are as low as I can get them but people have to understand I get them from local motor factor/euro/gsf which deliver to me 4 times a day and have the part same day.

 

The parts you see on ebay may be cheap but I can't wait for them to turn up and if they're wrong the job is held up sending the wrong part back.

 

So the customer questioning the price of parts bit is annoying.

[gordonbennet]

My handy little bodyshop has moved away from insurance work and in many cases trade work too ( piss takers), he now concentrates on older and classic cars, which he finds interesting and in most cases the friendly owners of which are most appreciative and understanding, and they are happy to pay promptly when they collect their cars.

I suppose as a bonus he's avoiding the electrical nightmares of modern shit too.

 

Still a handy old school mobile sparky about too.

[PiperCub]

Tradesmen in this country are looked down on by people in suits and with the advances in technology young people probably see this as a bad career. I find it quite funny when im looked down on in a shop because im wearing my overalls and have often been ignored or spoken to rudely by staff as I must not look as though I could afford their wares.

 

Half of the youngsters in suits are doing crap jobs but it seems the suit elevates them to a higher status.

My job does not require me to even wear overalls any more as I am off the tools now but as soon as I get a free hour at work im in the workshop messing with my cars and feel more comfortable in my overalls anyway.

 

This is certainly part of the problem in my experience. If I tell people I'm an engineer (albeit, an electronics engineer), they think I wear oily overalls all day, despite my many qualifications, I still get halfwits with a few GCSE's trying (& failing ultimately when I chop them off at the knees verbally) to look down their noses at the pleb-who-works-with-his-hands. The perception that a manual job or one that doesn't require the wearing of a monkey suit is in some way inferior to a shiney-arse type job answering a phone all day is pretty scandalous IMO and is one of the reasons youngsters who are inevitably concerned with their image, are not attracted to engineering and manual/traditional trades. Industry itself doesn't help here by perpetuating the above myth.

 

The UK uni's etc turn out engineers in the v.low 1000's per year, China turns out 100,000's or more a year, the status of more manual (ie: those that actually MAKE/FIX things) is way higher in the far east and more respected as a profession so are never short of youngsters keen to persue it as a career, sadly not the same here hence the skill shortage in such industries that will only get worse. I do welcome the return of proper apprenticeships, this is a definate positive step forward but they mustn't be allowed to be looked on a second-rate to some office job, equal status is what is needed.

 

I case you think I'm overly bitter about this, I'm not really, it's just an observation of what is happening. I've reached 48 years old and have never owned a suit - ever, and I'm proud of this fact! Also, with few youngsters wanting or able to compete with me for work, I can earn a nice living, doing interesting stuff without busting my balls or suffering too much corperate BS. And as Dippy says, I too am happiest in my overalls!!!