Down to my last used Jonny. Only the Anglia 105E left.

[jonny69]

Seems to be shortly after 7am and I'm on* the M25 headed towards a haulage hire place...

 

*in fact I'm in the services waiting for my buddy to have a poo, but the rest is correct.

[dollywobbler]

Well there you go. I shan't listen to him again! I'm not privy to the Resto photos but it certainly explains why it isn't selling...

[jonny69]

 

On truck. KFC consumed. Nearly home.

[Bfg]

Excellent   Hope the weather is dry for you tomorrow to have a play

[jonny69]

As of Sunday morning. Brrr, fricking cold...

 

 

I didn't get to do much because I only had an hour in the morning, so I gave both cars a wash as a start. The Citroen was absolutely filthy inside and out and the interior is absolutely covered in grinding dust. I'm a bit pissed off at this because Dez clearly didn't cover anything and he's peppered one of the side windows and the inside of the windscreen. Same outside. It seems to have had grinding dust sat on it while it was outside so the paintwork is covered in tiny rusty spots. It has also come back with a series of bashes, dents and scrapes that weren't there when it went to him. I'm going to have to have a shout at him about this. I think I can save everything except the side window, but I'm irritated that I have to do this at all.

 

It's come back as a non-runner. Battery is dead from standing and won't charge back up. Starter motor apparently had packed up and Dez had taken it off the car. I checked it last night and it seemed to be fine, which is curious, but also a relief because a second hand replacement is around £110 and I don't know anyone in the Citroen world for more sensible-priced second hand spares.

 

Tonight I'm going to get a new 6V battery from Moss. Could probably get it a bit cheaper online, but they are round the corner and if it lets go I can just drop in there on the way home from work. I seem to remember everything else worked ok, so once I bolt the seatbelts back in, battery on, fire it up, and it should be ready for an MOT.

[Asimo]

Like that you have it back and unlike that all is not as it should be.

[Bfg]

Damn... grinding splatter burns, dents, scrapes, filthy, residue rust spots knackered battery ..inexcuseable / criminal damage.

 

I wish, in this day and age, there were such a thing on the internet as publically 'Name and Shame' ..as Dez near Colchester  ought to be listed as a warning to others.  

 

Last year I had a situation with Suffolk Auto Transmissions near Sudbury. All I wanted them to do was to take a (manual) gearbox out and replace it again (after it had been rebuilt by a classic-car gearbox specialist).  They did a Crap Job, took a flipping age, had repeated hassles getting them to finish the job, then serious damage to the paintwork - from sitting in their yard for over three months during the thunder storms and soaring heat of last summer. They changed the clutch when it wasn't necessary (I always ask for parts back), then they tried to charge me more than quoted. And finally when I got the car (a 1966 Jaguar saloon) back - the clutch didn't work properly. After all the hassles, I had so little confidence in the company that I took it to another garage to check that nuts and bolts were tight. One was missing !  Totally pissed off with the whole saga, the hassles and the cost incurred - I sold the car.   I can only wish Suffolk Auto Transmissions go out of business in the most horrid way, and that those responsible have the same sort of thing happen to them a hundred times over.

 

I tend to feel the same about Dez..

[scruff]

Glad its back but a shame this Dez fella clearly doesn't give a shit. 

[dollywobbler]

Is frustrating. My 2CV still has paint on one of the rear windows from when a chap was replacing the bonnet hinge. Not sure how he managed that. I've also had that horrible dust get everywhere after a welding job. Great for patina, not so nice if you want the thing to look, er, nice.

[Bfg]

HELP Citroen specific tools for : CITROEN  GS 1015cc motor / Citroen Ami-8-Super rolling stock

 

Next month (middle of March) I plan to drive down to Slovenia to start on the recommissioning of my recently acquired Ami-Super.

 

42 years old and 30k miles (on the clock) this car is (mechanically) original with the G10 Citroen GS 1015cc OHC boxer 4-cylinder motor and the GS 1220's gearbox / inboard disc brakes. 

 

I'll start by replacing the aged cam-belts and servicing the motor, before progressive working through the whole car ; replacing old n' dry grease with new.  I've bought new brake pads, callipers and wheel cylinders, so I'll check and fit those as required. I'll also run through the ignition & electrics, etc. as well going around the body panels, body shell & chassis ..to treat her to a little TLC and paint       

I'll be working like a mobile mechanic, from the back of my Autoshite van (216k Chrysler Voyager), so I've made a list of garage tools and equipment I'll probably need - but at the moment I don't have any . Citroen-specific tools.

Can anyone advise what I'll need ? and what I can make do without.  And as importantly where I might get / borrow them from ? (for two weeks), or else dimensioned sketches if I can quickly make them.

Big thanks. Pete

[Asimo]

A tin of LHM - used as the brake fluid on these.

 

A spare wheel with the centre cut out so you can get at the hub nuts with a breaker bar and the wheel on the ground.

 

Rubber fingers and eyes on stalks for doing the points. Which will need doing.

 

Haynes books for GS covers all engine, clutch and box stuff, their 2CV /Ami book covers much of the rest but note the spring boxes are a bit different because the front and rear aren't interconnected like the 2 cylinder cars.

 

I played cambelt roulette with mine (and won) so can offer only encouragement.

I seem to remember the sump plug was something awkward needing a square peg. But that might have been something else French!

[Eddie Honda]

Well join the boat as I have none too.

 

How big is the crank nut on those? Is it a 42mm deep to clear the starting handle dog?

 

I'd have to guess the dimensions if you are delving into front wheel bearings. My nearside one is bollocks and I haven't got round to doing it yet, but I'm going to make up a special tool for that.

 

This guy told me he DOESN'T DO TOOLS ANYMORE (pretty much retired), but the website is still up for reference purposes.

 

http://www.2cvtools.com/

 

If the crankcase breathing isn't working properly it will just blow out oil everywhere/anywhere.

[Eddie Honda]

I seem to remember the sump plug was something awkward needing a square peg. But that might have been something else French!

From memory, it's a 10mm square, not awkward, but at the rear of sump. Newer French chod is 8mm square.

 

I have this to deal with both those:

Facom_D13A by E Honda, on Flickr

 

or there is a Beta equivalent, which is lies flat as the 2 90deg bends are on the same plane:

 

Beta_1496C by E Honda, on Flickr

 

A 3/8" square will do if it's a 10mm sq. though.

[forddeliveryboy]

Yes, 42mm for the fan bolt. As mentioned, wheel bearings ideally need a special tool and kingpins too, although you can get away with some mild steel rod of a slightly smaller diameter to drift the pins out - don't use an old pin, the steel's too hard and may spread the top of the one you're removing, knackering the hole in the arm.

 

An alternative to the bearing tool is to drill through the threaded ring at 180^o without doing irreparable damage to the thread in the hub then knock out with a chisel. Obviously new ring then needed. Trying to chisel it out down the thread can result in a knackered hub, better drill out and replace. Worth using heat on the ring if you're going to unscrew it, they get rusted in and even with heat can need a 6' bar and a massive hammer to start them.

 

32mm socket for the driveshaft nuts, 46mm for the rear drums/hubs.

 

As much as anything good 8, 10 and 11 sockets and spanners as well as a range of extensions. Metal quality of fastenings is high unless someone's been in before you and replaced with modern chocolate-strength fixings. A battery windy gun for all those pesky bolts which Amis and the flat four use on the front end can speed things up no end.

[Bfg]

Thanks guys that all useful.. I have a couple of trolley jacks and I'll take blocks to place under the wheels (I find axle stands a bit iffy with the curved swinging (suspension) arms of the A-series cars.

 

"A spare wheel with the centre cut out, so you can get at the hub nuts with a breaker bar, with the wheel on the ground". Sounds like a great idea. Also sounds like a dumb bit of design when such a tool is needed but hey that's life.. I appreciate the tip. 

 

"Rubber fingers and eyes on stalks for doing the points". 

I'll pre-mark, but then remove the dissy (Ducellier) so that I can service it and replace the points & condensor on the bench (B&D workmate). Predicting the access issues - I've invested (£40) in a Bransden Boyer ignition unit, which still uses the distributor & points - but reduces the power across the contacts to mA's.  Thereafter it boosts the power to the coil.  Bottom-line being that apart from wear on the heel, there's no wear on the contacts - so that they stay set, and rarely if ever need replacing again.  Conversely, Luminition quoted £240+ for optical electronic ignition on this Ducellier (fitting kit is expensive because it's their own base plate, & of course ..very low volume).

 

I'd preferred an optical trigger unit.., but not so much as to warrant a £200+ (almost seven times) difference in price !  Conversely, with no changes inside the distributor, and their unit placed in series between the distributor the coil... it'll be very quick n' easy to bypass the Bransden (perhaps for diagnostics, in the event of problems, or a totally flat battery ) and revert back to the standard set-up. In practice it'll not be needed very often, but I sorta like the idea of having the option

 

Got a Citroen GS manual from Autobook (personally I prefer their diagrams) rather than Haynes. Also found a Peter Russek 'glovebox series' manual,  and an Automobile Revue Technique (in French) on the Ami Super.  As I don't speak French the latter is of limited use but it's handy for cross referencing diagrams and for OE part numbers and specifications.

 

Cam-belts is the biggie. I've read about marking the belt / counting the teeth, etc., but having never done it before (on any engine) ..cam-belt failure or setting it up wrong is of anxious concern.  Can't be helped - I need to learn how to do it myself.

 

I found reference with dimensions in Auto-Technique for a tool to hold the cam-sprockets while undoing the bolts.  whereas Pussek says to poke a screwdriver through it to lock against the engine case. 

 

I understand the Ami-super didn't have the starter dogs so a 'standard' 42mm socket sould fit.  I presume you put the car in first gear and lock up the brakes to get it undone ? I yet need to buy one but so far I've only seen these sockets with 3/4" or 1" drive. The search continues.

 

Square socket for the sump plug 8mm & 10mm I can make  - thanks for the heads-up.

 

'2cv tools' is a very interesting resource - Great / Thanks..  But still I'm lost for the fact that I don't know what fits the 2cv and which fit the Ami super. For example I understand that my car's wheel bearings are bigger.. but are the nuts holding them the same ?  Likewise the spring cannisters, the drive shafts, etc.,

 

42mm confirmed then.. Thanks. Someone mentioned 44mm but perhaps that was for wheel bearings ?

King pins ...thanks for the info & advice.  I think I'll leave to Janez of 2cvKaza. Me doing them roadside I think is asking for trouble, and I'm keen not to bugger them..  Janez will have the right tool as he also works on the AK vans.

 

Likewise I think for the front bearing rings - again a job for Janez.  I'll be a long way from home, in a country where I can't speak the language. So, until I've seen one come apart.., I have to be cautious not fkc things up. Worst case scenario being - the car still needs to be able to rolls onto a trailer.!

 

"32mm socket for the driveshaft nuts, 46mm for the rear drums/hubs"  ..these sizes for the Ami-super ?

 

"8, 10 and 11 sockets and spanners" I have good 12-point, but it's probably worth my buying new 6-point sockets. Thanks.  I thought I heard somewhere that Citroen often use 12mm, is that true ?

 

"A battery windy gun for all those pesky bolts which Amis and the flat four use on the front end can speed things up no end."  I have a 14v Makita cordless combi-drill (with hammer) which I plan to take with me. Can you advise whether screws are used and if so are they Philips or Posi ? 

That reminds me.. I'd be wise to buy another battery, the second one I have is weak.

 

Thanks all. keep em coming

[Bfg]

Jonny69... How you getting on with your Ami-6 ?  No news is I hope good news.

 

p.s. Sorry I didn't set out to poach your topic.. would you like me / us to just  P_ _ _ OFF  and start another thread !?

 

Peter

[meggersdog]

Spoke to James Walsh from Practical Classics the other day.He has a RHD Ami which will be for sale as a spares car very soon.I only had a quick look around and it's going to be a brave restororation or more likely, as James said, good for spares.The floors are rotted out, the driver's door pillar is rooten and there are even holes on the edges of the roof.

I'll try and steer him this way if you like.

[dollywobbler]

James has his Ami on ebay right now.

[meggersdog]

Yeah, sorry only just noticed it in the tat thread.

[Asimo]

To lock the engine for undoing crankshaft nut use top gear not bottom gear, or you might run yourself over!

[dollywobbler]

To lock the engine for undoing crankshaft nut use top gear not bottom gear, or you might run yourself over!

 

Surely top gear will just make the car move and not actually lock it up? Reverse may be safer than bottom and certainly make sure the ignition is off!

[Asimo]

No, much easier to move the car from the engine in bottom gear - that is why bottom gear is used for starting off..........reverse is probably an even lower gear than first so worst of all. And yes, do have the handbrake on and ignition off.

[alf892]

Avoid reverse and first.......you just wind the transmission up and provide more power.....as the man says top is best

[Eddie Honda]

"A spare wheel with the centre cut out, so you can get at the hub nuts with a breaker bar, with the wheel on the ground". Sounds like a great idea. Also sounds like a dumb bit of design when such a tool is needed but hey that's life.. I appreciate the tip.

If you're handy with bending a bar you could do this...

 

Front_rear_hub_holder_MR.630.64_40 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

Front_rear_hub_holder_MR.630.64_40_1 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

If you're not handy bending a bar, you get one straight bit of bar with second arm so it forms a Y.

 

 

Or you could do this:

 

gt2001 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

Cam-belts is the biggie. I've read about marking the belt / counting the teeth, etc., but having never done it before (on any engine) ..cam-belt failure or setting it up wrong is of anxious concern.  Can't be helped - I need to learn how to do it myself.

What's biggie about cambelts? Safe heads, safe to play cambelt roulette and win.

 

I thought I heard somewhere that Citroen often use 12mm, is that true ?

Nah, I'm thinking that's bollocks because Japanese love their 12s and French love their 13s heads for M8 (at last in ye olden days). There's a bit of M7 going on (dizzy studs), which have 11mm hex head nuts.

[dollywobbler]

No, much easier to move the car from the engine in bottom gear - that is why bottom gear is used for starting off..........reverse is probably an even lower gear than first so worst of all. And yes, do have the handbrake on and ignition off.

 

Yes, I see where my logic has comprehensively failed. It's when you're pushing a car in gear that lower is best. ie rocking it to try and free a stuck starter or whatnot. It's been a busy week...

[forddeliveryboy]

Bfg, the Ami Super should have front hubs with holes in, plenty big enough to take a half inch extension bar so there shouldn't be any need for a special hub locking tool or wheel with a hole in the centre. 

 

Fairly sure 46mm rear hub nuts for Supers, too - maybe you'd best check the club knowledge boxes if you need to be 110%. Surely tools are available where you're going, though?

 

Kingpins are a doddle if you don't rush, unless there has been a slack one and water has rusted it in. Easier to do with the wings off, just brace the bottom of the arm on an immovable bit of something and get a large lump hammer to move it. Certainly much easier to do than remove a suspension box, unless it's like new underneath. Not sure why you want to take these off?

[Bfg]

Yes top gear.. I knew that.. brain musta farted just at the wrong mo..

 

Brilliant hub locks..  The Y brace looks easiest. with no welding, the drilling tolerances can be a mile off,  and it's easier to pack than a butchered wheel.  I still reckon 44mm long sockets & 1m long special tools are an irony ..considering the 2cv concept.     Citroen musta wanted to ensure their garages did the servicing.

 

"What's biggie about cambelts? Safe heads, safe to play cambelt roulette and win"  as best I could gather from the manuals (and I fathomed on the side of caution..) was that the G10 motor was of interferance design (piston/valve).  And as I could find no other source to counter that, nor can I afford to fkc the motor up.. it is of concern.

 

If... I could be certain it's a non-interferance design then I'll be bloody delighted     ...'cause it'll mean I can really enjoy playing tunes through the rev band.!   My impression was that, aside from cambelt failure, with good lube these engines are pretty unburstable..  Book specs max revs @ 6,000 but folklaw tales are of winding them up to 8k.  Perhaps not economical but great fun..

 

Thanks for the heads up on the front hub. I'll see if the manuals I have can confirm that.

 

"Surely tools are available where you're going, though?"  The car's still in Koper, Slovenia (where it was made).  Now a nice little fishing / tourist port where the locals speak a Russian-based language.  Trieste is just over the boarder in Italy but I don't speak Italian either,  so could easily loose a day shopping for a tool or part I don't have with me, or which is 'just' the wrong size.

 

"get a large lump hammer"  Thanks I'd missed that off my packing list

 

I don't know that I do want to pull the king pins ...yet. But as the car is now 42 years old, with low mileage, and scruffy (read : previously neglected), and has been parked up for the past 16 years.., then I'd guess all the grease has dried out.  Cleaned, a good fit, & with fresh grease ; the king pins will last many tens of thousands of miles. Seized &/or with the grease dried out then I'd reckon on a hundred miles before they're wrecked ? 

 

Pete

[mat_the_cat]

Brilliant hub locks..  The Y brace looks easiest. with no welding and the drilling tolerances can be a mile off.  And easier to pack than a butchered wheel.

 

Or just wedge your breaker bar against the ground to the front, and drive forwards to loosen off the hub nut. May not always work, as I managed to get the full weight of my old Focus onto the breaker bar and STILL the nut remained solid, but I would have had no chance anyway...

[Eddie Honda]

The hub holder in the case of the GS is more for rear hubs.

 

The front hubs on the GS have a lock ring on the inside that holds the bearing in:

 

Bearing_Lockring_81-957 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

The torque figure in the manual for tightening these is given for a lubricated thread and not dry or lightly oiled. The ring is also meant to be staked with a punch as well, so the staking will need to be relieved before trying to undo them (if you don't go down the drill/split road). I forget how many different diameters of rings there are, but I think it's about 4, with the GS & GSA being 80mm/82mm and the 2CV being about 74mm. There are four different "sockets" that fit in the ring. Very ancient 2cvs have four cutouts in the ring to take a four pronged driver and later ones and the rest have a 2 prong arrangement.

 

Facom_C_83_B__01 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

3320T_79-750 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

3320-T_3321-T_8897 by E Honda, on Flickr

 

This will give you a general idea what you're up against...

 

GX.41-1.jpg by E Honda, on Flickr

 

GX.413-3_Reconditioning_a_swivel_hub.jpg by E Honda, on Flickr

 

I'd leave them if you don't need to do them, but if you really want to do them, maybe you could take a pair of refurbished hubs out with you and just swap 'em over. (or bring them back to do if it can be wheel-less for a while)

[PhilA]

So long as you keep an electronic box of tricks for ignition dry and relatively cool it'll help with reliability. I have had a vehicle with Lumenition and not once was it cause for a FTP. Given how awkward the points are to do, a transistor amplified setup should be good. You could look into a ballasted coil system that can boost starting sparks.

 

I'd never had trouble with the system on a dead or nearly-dead battery either. Electronics have come a long way since the early eighties' systems.

 

Phil