Durable Car Ownership?

[scooters]

volvo 244/245 with the 2.1 engine and a carburettor/points condensor etc. Noelectrics to go wrong, go for the 4 speed box if you want trouble free giffer speed or the 4 speed with OD if you do motorway. I carry a set of points, a condensor, a dizzy cap and rotor arm, a diagphram for the carb, auto trans fluid for the carb piston, oil, coolant, a set of tools and the emergency bottle of Kseal (not that these B21 engines suffer particualry from head issues) as well as a tube of gn gum and it can be fixed on the hoof

 

I paid £400 for my 244 DL in July and it has been our main car since, hasnt missd a beat, never fails to start, 120k on the clock and all I have done is put petrol and screen wash in it.

 

just about the most durable car I have ever owned - the early ones - pre 1984 are now very difficult to find at that price - its getting a bot of rust at the corner of the wings but the interior loos like it was sold new last week.

 

we don't treat it as a toy or a classic - it is a daily tool and will continue to be for a long time to come.

 

with the uncetainty of self employment, and my dodgey health finances in scooters towers can quickly deteriorate without warning, THE most important criteria of any vehicle I own now is reliability reliability reliability - the 244 just keeps going and going 

 

I get 30mpg ish, better on a run and it is £30 a year for 6000 miles on a classic poicy...

 

what more do you need?

 

buying wise, its  lot more difficult to find a really decent estate than a decent saloon, the saloons teneded to be owned by retired giffers rather than familys and the antique dealers. Don;t dismiss the saloon, the boot is huge and the car will take a roof rack and boot rack if a real issue.

 

I'm going to splash out on anIPD anti roll bar kit in the summer, these transfrorm the handling without buggering around with springs and lowering.

[2MB]

Lots of respect for the 240 here. I adored mine but it was stolen, which was a shame as o probably would've kept it for a long time and sold for a profit (50k miles, fsh and it cost me £220) and the boot is still bigger than some estate cars'. It was the only saloon I've ever had that you could put a bmx bike in the boot of, which was very important at the time. The feeling of safety as you look out of the side windows over those thick doors is unbeatable

[mercrocker]

240s on my radar for a long time now.....There is a mint black saloon in the next street but lady owner wont sell it (always a good, though frustrating, sign).   All the more appealing as it is stylistically still a 1960s saloon with nose and deck jobs.   They appeal to me much more than the estates do.  A friend of mine who could afford almost any car he wanted chooses to keep four 240s in fully maintained condition as a hedge against ever having to buy modern tripe.

[danthecapriman]

I love the 240, and the saloons are the best IMHO. I always go for the saloon Volvo's instead of estates, I just prefer the looks of them.

My old 244 was a 79 V reg, ex giffer owned, 2.1 4 speed. Was a great, reliable old thing. I think it only failed one mot and that was on the emissions cured by a simple turn of a screw on the carb. Everything was simple and made to last.

I'd love to have another.

 

Here's my old one.

 

I'd say the 740's are a close second, they are also fantastic cars that will just go on and on.

[320touring]

In related activity today, i started the 320 today-first time since end november.

 

Boom, first turn of the key! Battery wasnt even disconnected.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

There is a lot of truth in the strength and quality of old Volvos. I had a friend who was a self employed builder. He liked to buy mouldering old prestige cars and used them as a kind of work van. (Though he did once have a Proton, it only lasted a few months).

 

His favourite was definitely a 265GLE. The damn thing had the thirst of Brutus, but was leather lined, luxurious and utterly unkillable. The last time I saw it, the thing was filled with paving slabs and cement bags. Just another day in its long life.

 

The 740/760 also seem to be very strong cars. They don't have the Mercedes 'engineered' feeling, but time has shown them to be more durable - just as Volvo said they would be. If durability is the ultimate test of quality, then the Volvo is better quality than a Mercedes W123 or W124.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

In related activity today, i started the 320 today-first time since end november.

 

Boom, first turn of the key! Battery wasnt even disconnected.

My Jag is like that - it takes months for it to go flat.

[320touring]

My Jag is like that - it takes months for it to go flat.

The 4.0 xj40 was flat in 2 days..

[sierraman]

Cars these days seem to last much longer than they did before, our Focus is 14 years old, in 1985 how many 1971 cars were on the road let alone rust free?

 

Years ago people went on about how if the Cat went the car would be scrap, now you can get them for next to nothing.

 

200k is not an exception for a car these days, a 1.6 Sierra would be ready for a top end rebuild at half that mileage. I spent 2 hours replacing a duff thermostat at weekend, car did 120k on original one, how many would the 1974 equivalent have gone through by that mileage?

[scooters]

Whilst modern cars do indeed take a big mileage in general, durability isn't universal, as it wasn't universal in the past. Whilst some components are much more durable, ie differential, gearbox, block etc. Other issues have become commonplace with modern cars that were never an issue in the past, like ecg s, plastic thermostat housings and manifolds (ford). Particulate clogging, electrical faults.

 

Don't get me wrong, on the whole moder technology has made cars more reliable in general however the trade off has been less mechanically competent owners and with some vehicles, and in particular the 240 pre 1985 so when the fuel was still carbed and the ignition was mechanical. Provided you use oem quality components the system is pretty bullet proof and considerably tougher, more reliable and easier to fit than some of the later Volvos I've owned with EFI etc. Especially when the electrics are aging on 90 s cars.

 

Compared to the lucas mechanical ignition systems I've had in many other cars the bosch distributor with the Volvo modifications (primarily the coating off all components with water resistant coatings ) is chalk vs cheese in terms of quality.

This combined with a detuned four pot with large margins of timing error etc. Make the car very tough indeed. I've also been hugely impressed with the Stromberg Zenith carb.

[sierraman]

Ironically it was a Mondeo Mk3 thermostat I was doing over the weekend. What a c**t of a job! Working blind mostly to get 3 6mm bolts into the engine block at arms length, up to my arms in shit. Never mind, the heater is brilliant now!

[Grundig]

Good point, the main engine electronics etc can usually be fixed but it's the pointless chassis control crap that's going to be a future problem. Just why exactly do you need to 'Code' items into a car? Aside from the obvious that is! Sadly you can't always get round these issues, sometimes you can disconnect - say central locking, or revert to manual windows (did that to my last Mk2 Golf - manual ones £15/pr ebay, electric £100+/pr ebay) or something but it's rare nowadays.

 

Read an article in car mechanics magazine about a newish Volvo that had to be recoded after having the front screen replaced, doing this involves a four wheel alignment  & headlamp recalibration ??? WTF 

[sierraman]

Since when has replacing a windscreen been a DIY job though?

[oman5]

I'm thinking seriously about getting another 240 to put away for if/when the 940 ever goes bang. The guy I sold my Torslanda to keeps going on about getting rid and I have first refusal, but then he goes for a drive in it and changes his mind.

I'll badger him after he's fixed the gearbox oil seal and changed the rear axle bushes like he is planning.

[Barry Cade]

I'll just drop this here:

 

Today's day at work. Much like any other day.

 

2006 Punto MOT. Fail. Subframe rotten. New subframe trade £700.

 

2009 Peugeot 207 1.6 Petrol. EML on, limp mode. Lack of oil and water. Cams scored and chain rattling,codes for exhaust cam phasing ..looking like the wrong side of 2k

 

2004 Espace 2.2 DCi. Had £450 spent 3 weeks ago on a service and suspension work. Back last week on a flatbed, crank sensor and wiring. £130. Back today, cutting out dead over 4000rpm. Injector fault. £300+

 

2005 Picasso. MOT. 8x4 holes in both sills at front. Fail.

 

2011 Berlingo. New clutch and belt and service 2 weeks ago . £800. back today. EML on. DPF full. Regen and Eolys top up. £140.

 

2007 Polo. Aftermarket Cat fitted in August. Lambda sensor fitted Dec. EML on. Cat efficiency. Emissions perfect, Lambda readings perfect. Previous experience tells me these only like genuine Cats. £400+

 

2004 Daewoo Matiz.  no cold idle,stalling at junctions. Throttle body U/S. £600.

 

1994 Corsa 1.4 8v. MOT. Straight pass. No advisories. Full service. £80. Another years trouble for motoring for a ton. Still on original rear Michelins.

 

Take what you will from that.

[sierraman]

A lot of what you say there is down to bad maintenance such as running out of oil etc, the corrosion would probably have been spotted earlier before it got to the stage where its compromising the structure if the car.

[Lacquer Peel]

Vindication for Corsaviour or whatever he's calling himself now, there.

[mercrocker]

And a lot of what is on that list relates to shit that doesn't even need to be on a car in the first place......

[alf892]

So.........Fiats rust, don't buy French, carry out driver maintenance checks and use decent quality replacement parts when the time comes?

 

FA new there................I have always lived by these rules.

[oman5]

I sold my old pug 306 D turbo to an older couple who are friends of ours, it was high mileage, but well looked after and running well, economical and totally reliable. I was glad they had it because the last few times they bought a car the seller saw them coming and they paid over the odds for some right shit.i let them have it cheap, saying "look after it and it's good to go for years"

After 8 months, they've got rid of it, because it needed front tyres and the interior driver's door panel was loose, and the electric window stopped working.

They have chopped it in for a 56 plate Picasso Hdi. Paid something like 3k from a dealer on tick. So far they've driven it twice in a month, it's been back and forth to the dealer so many times for fault rectification.

 

There is no helping some people. That pug probably got weighed straight in.

[Alan_Green]

Thanks to this thread (and the ZX in Kent thread) I think I've decided to buy a 2004 Berlingo 1.9D (DW8 engine - related to the XUD9 and no turbo or DPF) 100K and meticulous service records. Will replace my 2010 1.6HDi Berlingo which is now on its 3rd, possibly 4th turbo at only 47K.  Is that a good plan?

[sierraman]

That's a waste, you see it all the time, car needs probably £150 spending so in some distorted logic they set themselves up on a finance deal costing thousands over several years.

[Grundig]

Since when has replacing a windscreen been a DIY job though?

 

When I had a Mini 

[Barry Cade]

So.........Fiats rust, don't buy French, carry out driver maintenance checks and use decent quality replacement parts when the time comes?

 

FA new there................I have always lived by these rules.

OK, sound train of thought, but it's all getting muddled. Fiat's don't rust anymore- this was a parked by the sea car.Citroens and VW's rust now.. Don't buy French- which part? If you don't want a French engine, that rules out most Diesels, Mini's, Nissan and more. German? Italian cars have issues with electrics, made by Bosch.. Decent quality parts? after 10 years it won't be OE. Who is decent now- parts are bought in and reboxed.Driver maintenence checks.. do you have a dipstick? Can you change the gearbox oil?

 

It's a minefield.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I've always had old BMW's because I take the view that if a car was nice when it was new, it's probably still a decent car now. Some, such as my Compact and the 7 Series I've had for a decade or more, will not sell and have put time and $$$ into making them really nice after tens of thousands of miles with me using them as dailies.

I tried the E46 route and came to the conclusion quickly that E46's are festering piles of dogshit, rust prone and over complex heaps of fucking rubbish. I run two E36's as daily smokers, a 1998 318i Touring and a 1999 318i Convertible. Both cost bugger all (£400 and £300) and required the usual crap to get them up to scratch - servicing, brake pipes, suspension bits and catching those small bits of rust quickly to prevent them going nuclear.

The E36 is a good old tram. They're worth sod all, are quite easy to work on, not bad on fuel and the bits are almost free. They also drive like a proper car and a clean unbarred example still looks respectable-ish.

 

I won't drive shit though. When you can buy a clean E36 Touring with tax, MOT and working aircon for 400 quid I don't get why anyone would want a wanked R reg Fiesta with rotten rear arches and one working brake light. It's just horrible, shit motoring and there's no need for it. I hope to keep one E36 going forever and need to have one in reserve really. What to replace it with? If I were to go BMW again it would probably be an E90. These are ten years old now but don't suffer the endless rust chasing dramas of the E46, the rotten brake pipes and general shitness.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I'll just drop this here:

 

Today's day at work. Much like any other day 25 years ago.

 

1978 Mini MOT. Fail. Subframe rotten. They all do that. They may be some welding involved at the mounting points....

 

1979 Cortina 1600. Cam's fucked out of it's brains. Gonna cost a weeks wages to repair it. 

 

1984 Renault 25. Had £450 spent 3 weeks ago on a service and suspension work and now the auto box has gone tits up. ££££

 

1975 Alfasud MOT. How we laughed!

 

1981 Peugeot 104.  New clutch and belt and service 2 weeks ago and now the head gaskets gone, as they do. Engine out job and a complete bastard. 

 

1977 Polo. The head gasket is pissing oil out on the front corner, as they do, and has ruined ANOTHER alternator, as they do.

 

1984 Astra 1.3. No cold idle,stalling at junctions - that'll be the fucked GM Varajet 11 carb then. Weber replacement req'd. £££££

 

 

Take what you will from that.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Oh, and I've just heard an absolute diamond.

 

Woman I vaguely know had a lovely W plate Alfa 156, had it years. A really nice red 2.0TS Veloce, leather etc. under 100k, no rust, runs well. Worth bugger all but didn't break down. Had the big service last year - cam belt, plugs etc, about £600 all in.

 

Just traded it in for a new Clio, well, a 14 plate one at £6995. Got £300 for the Alfa. The reason? It costs £20 a year to tax as opposed to £230. It does 40 mpg and not 20. She does 6000 miles a year. Her husband was telling me all this with a straight face.

 

Now, I've just done some basic maths and and come to this conclusion:

 

To save yourself £900 a year, simply spend £6500. Pure logic.

[sierraman]

That's absolute stupidity. The Clio might do 40mpg but that's 40 miserable miles, instead of the 20 enjoyable miles in the Alfa. You only live ionce, why try to save £10 a week and thus make yourself miserable in the mean time?

[Barry Cade]

That's absolute stupidity. The Clio might do 40mpg but that's 40 miserable miles, instead of the 20 enjoyable miles in the Alfa. You only live ionce, why try to save £10 a week and thus make yourself miserable in the mean time?

 

That's the reason I now drive a Volvo. Free road tax, but the oil is 18 quid a litre...it's complicated.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

 

I've always had old BMW's because I take the view that if a car was nice when it was new, it's probably still a decent car now. Some, such as my Compact and the 7 Series I've had for a decade or more, will not sell and have put time and $$$ into making them really nice after tens of thousands of miles with me using them as dailies.

I tried the E46 route and came to the conclusion quickly that E46's are festering piles of dogshit, rust prone and over complex heaps of fucking rubbish. I run two E36's as daily smokers, a 1998 318i Touring and a 1999 318i Convertible. Both cost bugger all (£400 and £300) and required the usual crap to get them up to scratch - servicing, brake pipes, suspension bits and catching those small bits of rust quickly to prevent them going nuclear.

The E36 is a good old tram. They're worth sod all, are quite easy to work on, not bad on fuel and the bits are almost free. They also drive like a proper car and a clean unbarred example still looks respectable-ish.

 

I won't drive shit though. When you can buy a clean E36 Touring with tax, MOT and working aircon for 400 quid I don't get why anyone would want a wanked R reg Fiesta with rotten rear arches and one working brake light. It's just horrible, shit motoring and there's no need for it. I hope to keep one E36 going forever and need to have one in reserve really. What to replace it with? If I were to go BMW again it would probably be an E90. These are ten years old now but don't suffer the endless rust chasing dramas of the E46, the rotten brake pipes and general shitness.

 

The E32 7 Series is a beautiful car - one of the best looking cars the company has made. You're running a classic car as a daily there, in my view. Spending money on it is maintaining a thing of beauty, so is worthwhile for that alone!

 

I agree with this about the the E46 versus the E90. People seem to lionise the E46, but I was never that impressed with it. They don't drive as well as the E90 and in my experience at any rate, are not as durable either.

 

The E36 will have its day. It looks as sharp as the E46 does a frump and it is much more rewarding to drive. I reckon it is past the bottom now and heading back to the sunlit uplands...