Citroen XM - was JohnK's steed

[dollywobbler]

You have strut tops?! What year was yours? I'm heading to Derbyshire this weekend...

 

Not urgent, but are your seats the same material? I had a very brief look at the one Andy's got at the moment. One of my front's has a ruddy great fag burn in it, the other has a nasty clonk in it somewhere that I can't trace. To be honest, I'm not that fussed about the extra rear window. 

[Cavcraft]

Which Citroen specialists did you get it from, Ian? The reg plate suggests it was originally supplied somewhere not too far from here.

 

I'd bloody love an XM but I still haven't got the bollocks after the last two I VERY briefly owned. Both, sadly enough went over the bridge. Sorry. 

[dollywobbler]

Keith Davis in beautiful Aldford. It does indeed look to have been a Chester car for most of its life. 

[Cavcraft]

Gah, wish I'd known, would have come down for a bit. He's been there since the year dot on the very nice bit of the Duke of Westminster's land, as you'll have seen.

Did he still have a BX 4x4 estate there at all? It was being used as a courtesy car at one point and I think he had another 4x4 there at one point. Nice bloke Keith, one or two are a bit off him as he's a pretty 'direct' bloke, but I always found him brilliant. In fact he did the spheres on my 1.7 n/a diesel BX and it was like a different car after that, totally transformed it and the bill wasn't so bad, either/ 

[dollywobbler]

No, BX estates gone. He had a pair of valvers though. He's straight out of the stereotype book for Citroen specialists. Lovely and quite quirky, just like the cars. I think Andy's taking his BX back for some work.

[richardmorris]

Keith Davis in beautiful Aldford. It does indeed look to have been a Chester car for most of its life. 

 

 

Did you have lunch at the Grosvenor Arms? It's a Brunningham Price chain and the founder had a 2cv.

[dollywobbler]

Sounds a bit fancy. We grabbed bacon butties from an Iveco van on the way. 

[richardmorris]

Sounds good so far - Last time we went to Keith was to source a replacement 2CV bonnet. He didn't have one unfortunately, but did have half a dozen dyane ones.

[chaseracer]

You have strut tops?! What year was yours? I'm heading to Derbyshire this weekend...

The car I broke was a very early S1; the strut tops were renewed not long before it came off the road. I also have another in the garage which I got from Ebay. I can look them out if you're interested.

 

Not urgent, but are your seats the same material? I had a very brief look at the one Andy's got at the moment. One of my front's has a ruddy great fag burn in it, the other has a nasty clonk in it somewhere that I can't trace. To be honest, I'm not that fussed about the extra rear window.

Yep, I've got the full (powered, heated) interior in the same material.

[Inspector Morose]

I'll be back up there next month for him to do surgery on the rear arm bearings and while he's doing that, I'll be relieving one of the valves of its interior for the a-state.

He is indeed a sound gentleman from the short conversation I've had with him. Proper engineer, not that great with people, prefers mechanical things. That's why I'm travelling 80 odd miles for him to do the work. I trust him.

[Inspector Morose]

Yep, I've got the full (powered, heated) interior in the same material.

FPB7 DELIVERY SERVICE AVAILABLE. (Any excuse to have another perv over the new toy!)

[The Moog]

Re headlights if they are like xantia and 405 they will benefit massively from osram nightbreakers.

 

Goes from a elderly arthritic glowbug to something you can see by

[406V6]

.....He is indeed a sound gentleman from the short conversation I've had with him. Proper engineer, not that great with people, prefers mechanical things. .....

Sounds just like the Citroen specialist I take my car to. Must be something about Citroens that attracts a certain type of personality.

[Cavcraft]

Did you have lunch at the Grosvenor Arms? It's a Brunningham Price chain and the founder had a 2cv.

 

 

Is that the one by the entrance to the estate? Went in their once light years back but it was a bit 'Hooray Henry' for a spotty council estate knobhead like me.

[dollywobbler]

The car I broke was a very early S1; the strut tops were renewed not long before it came off the road. I also have another in the garage which I got from Ebay. I can look them out if you're interested.

 

Definitely interested. I'll do a bit of research and see whether they could fit. I'm pretty keen to get the offside one replaced. All other stuff definitely on the potential list, but I'm doing my best to prevent this thing turning into a money bit. It would be very easy to throw a shit load of money at it, but I must try and stick to gradual improvement. I'm aided in this aim by my bank balance.

[richardmorris]

Is that the one by the entrance to the estate? Went in their once light years back but it was a bit 'Hooray Henry' for a spotty council estate knobhead like me.

 

 

It's a big old brick building on the left -  the fish and chips are nice, and they have a good selection of beers. (I'm from Wrexham - born in Chester and parent's still in Wrexham with part of my fleet in their garage). Not hooray henryish judging by the clientele last time I went in back in June. Planted the merc right outside!

 

[Cavcraft]

Yep, been there and cycle past it quite often. Lovely part of the world, quite a distinctive pattern to his houses. There's another pub further down I think, somewhere near the bridge over the small river (Alyn?) that I confuse with the Grosvenor.

[forddeliveryboy]

I saw one of those new mclarens today - I am much more interested in this and not a little jealous.

 

Aye, but at least they have a Citroën-inspired hydraulic suspension which is utterly, utterly awesome - where the French company would have been if they''d kept an eye on the finances and not been subsumed into PSA and ended up making bog-standard cheap shopping trolleys marginally cheaper than the Peugoet equivalent.

 

 

Lhm change and sphere pressure test/swap may sort that, and a tickle with a lexia to clear any old codes. CitroJim is in Newport pagnell, he spent a day showing me how to do it, and remove them. The proper tool (or a copy of) and a lump hammer are essentials!

 

Nope. Not written on the stereo, nor in the handbook. Naturally, I'm finding some issues too. Ride seems firmer today, certainly at the start of the journey. A bounce test reveals that it's pretty firm front and rear (I followed Beko's earlier advice and it goes rock solid after 30 seconds, as it should, though there's no Hydractive light at start-up). I'm guessing a set of spheres (six on an XM) may be in order, or at least a re-gas.

 

 

Hydractives are a strange setup, with none of the elegance and simplicity of design of the original Citroën system or the amazingly simple but equally awesome system designed by Kinetic of South Australia (which concentrates on damping and anti-roll, used by Seb Loeb to great effect, as well as McLaren).

 

They're very susceptible to dirt, so a proper flush/cleaning and height corrector removal & cleaning can work wonders. Dealers simply didn't bother touching the hydraulics by the 90s unless they were forced to, so many cars went years without a fluid change and the muck accumulated in hidden corners.

 

As with all modern shite, there's the old "is it electronic probs or mechanical or both?" - marginally low system pressure from the crap modern plastic HP pump as it ages doesn't affect the regular setup but Hydractive needs the 145/170 bar to work. Otherwise soft mode doesn't engage. And the electrovalves do fail eventually, plus there is the whole sensor/ECU crap to deal with. Long Wave radio will help determine what's happening, to a point!

 

A truly brilliant ride/handling setup does exist for XMs and Xantias with hydractive, people who know what the Citroën system is capable of often aren't satisfied with the official sphere recommendations;  they work well on smooth French roads but can be significantly improved on for our roads - and I'm not talking about those 'comfort spheres'. Before you splash out on new green baubles, ask what I'd suggest, and why. I drove my own setup back to back with the recommended and beat it both on back roads and a race track (and as is usually the case, a car which handles better is also a more comfortable ride).

 

Here is the UK sphere table for hyperactives with meaningful data instead of just a part number -

 

[DSdriver]

I can remember pounds, shillings and pence and there weren't that many shillings in a pound.

Seriously though, what do the four columns on the right indicate and what do the numbers mean?

[forddeliveryboy]

400/55/0.70 means a 400cc sphere pressured to 55 bar, with a 0.7mm damper bypass hole. The centre spheres have no damper (it's in the hydractive blocks), so they're the same as an accumulator sphere, but with different pressure - so 500/70/- for eg.

 

A CX turbo front sphere was 500/70/1.65, I think. And a Xantia 1.9td 400/55/1.50. More volume = less progressive rising rate springing, more pressure = softer spring. But the volume*pressure (sometimes referred to as the bar-litre figure) has to match the car's mass so the bubble of Nitrogen is compressed correctly. Very crudely put, a larger sphere gives more travel.

[dollywobbler]

I'm minded to investigate the re-gas option first. I've never re-gassed spheres before. Add up the cost of six new spheres and you can see why folk reckon you can't run an XM on the cheap. I do have a bottle of Hydraflush in the garage though, so fluid replacement/clean shouldn't be too tricky. I think it probably needs it as the steering (when manoeuvring first thing) occasionally is a bit slow to assist. The regulator also tends to stick open on tickover. 

[DSdriver]

400/55/0.70 means a 400cc sphere pressured to 55 bar, with a 0.7mm damper bypass hole. The centre spheres have no damper (it's in the hydractive blocks), so they're the same as an accumulator sphere, but with different pressure - so 500/70/- for eg.

 

A CX turbo front sphere was 500/70/1.65, I think. And a Xantia 1.9td 400/55/1.50. More volume = less progressive rising rate springing, more pressure = softer spring. But the volume*pressure (sometimes referred to as the bar-litre figure) has to match the car's mass so the bubble of Nitrogen is compressed correctly. Very crudely put, a larger sphere gives more travel.

Can you tell just by looking at them? i.e. how would you tell if your car had the correct spheres if they had been changed by a previous owner. The problem I have with my XM is the only database I have is comparing it to my two DS which are a much softer ride, and rides in friends "moderns" which don't seem to have any suspension at all.

[dollywobbler]

It has begun. Central locking and interior lighting have both disappeared. Likely to be the control box I think. Not sure where that lives yet...

[DSdriver]

Central locking - have you checked the battery in the fob or is it reluctant with the key in the hole as well?

[beko1987]

I'm minded to investigate the re-gas option first. I've never re-gassed spheres before. Add up the cost of six new spheres and you can see why folk reckon you can't run an XM on the cheap. I do have a bottle of Hydraflush in the garage though, so fluid replacement/clean shouldn't be too tricky. I think it probably needs it as the steering (when manoeuvring first thing) occasionally is a bit slow to assist. The regulator also tends to stick open on tickover.

My notchy steering (fast steering whilst slowly parking etc) went after an lhm change, and down low, lock to lock a few times, up to normal, lock to lock, up high, lock to lock then I did more turning whilst raising and lowering too

 

Did the trick!

[dollywobbler]

Fob doesn't work already. My plan today was to try and resync it, but when I went to the car, the central locking was already not working.

[forddeliveryboy]

Can you tell just by looking at them? i.e. how would you tell if your car had the correct spheres if they had been changed by a previous owner. The problem I have with my XM is the only database I have is comparing it to my two DS which are a much softer ride, and rides in friends "moderns" which don't seem to have any suspension at all.

 

Some may still have the part number on them (which you can cross-reference with the table above or more online), or you can have the pressures checked and measure the damper leak-by hole size. Lots of cars have had wrong spheres fitted, many motor factors have a very limited selection of sub-standard ones which make an awful ride.

[dollywobbler]

I disconnected the battery, reattached it - sorted! 

[forddeliveryboy]

I'm minded to investigate the re-gas option first. I've never re-gassed spheres before. Add up the cost of six new spheres and you can see why folk reckon you can't run an XM on the cheap.

 

http://www.westroen-spheres.co.uk/

 

Or here's a central rear one for £14.40 incl postage, new.  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suspension-Sphere-Rear-CITROEN-XM-91-94-/280881916523?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4165ddea6b

 

Front ones are about £25 - replace the two centre ones if the existing ones are giving a poor ride in soft mode and you'll be amazed at the difference. If the accumulator sphere looks old then a replacement could improve the suspension too.

 

Given that the XM is one of the very few cars in the world with springs as well as dampers which alter their rate according to the road and how you're driving (which works superbly), I'd say prices are cheap for a replacement set of springs and dampers.

[DSdriver]

I disconnected the battery, reattached it - sorted! 

 

I think that the car unlocks itself if the battery gets low, at least mine seems to.