Citroen XM - was JohnK's steed

[dollywobbler]

You need a 3rd gen Honda Prelude I suspect.... A four speed auto...

 

I already own a 4th gen, and while it is definitely softer, it's still pretty firm!

[dollywobbler]

For the second time in my ownership of this car, I found myself unable to undo the wheel bolts. This seriously does my head in!

 

My impact driver was just not up to the task at all, but thankfully my knuckle bar and scaffold tube approach worked. How much bloody torque is that?! It did this to my knuckle bar.

 

This was all so I could investigate the hideous, hideous suspension noise. The culprit? The disc retaining screws had both come loose. I wonder if they should be loctited in? At least it was an easy fix, and I actually got to work on a car outside without getting rained on!

[mrbenn]

No rain? You weren't at home then?

 

Glad it was an easy (and free) fix.

[dollywobbler]

No rain? You weren't at home then?

 

Glad it was an easy (and free) fix.

 

There was rain, but I managed to squeeze doing this and doing a photoshoot of an MX-5 before it began. Well, ok. Most of the photoshoot.

[Lankytim]

Disc retaining screws? They shouldn't make any difference once the wheels on, should they?

[Lacquer Peel]

Maybe if it was rattling about, loose. It's worth putting a dab of copper grease on the wheel nuts. Are you over-tightening your nuts?

[twosmoke300]

You shouldn't lube wheel nuts / studs on most cars . The torque figure is provided for dry studs unless stated otherwise . Lubing the threads can make the wheels tighter for a given torque and can also make them work loose .

[dollywobbler]

Disc retaining screws? They shouldn't make any difference once the wheels on, should they?

 

That's what I thought, but it seems the wheel bolts do not in fact hold the disc firmly.

 

 

Maybe if it was rattling about, loose. It's worth putting a dab of copper grease on the wheel nuts. Are you over-tightening your nuts?

 

I would never over-tighten my sodding nuts. Unlike garages with over-enthusiastic rattle guns. And I never use copper grease. Some on the back of the wheel perhaps, but not on the bolts.

[Lacquer Peel]

I use a little copper grease on my nuts, it makes freeing them off so much easier. I've heard of someone using too much copper grease and their nuts rattling off but I'm not sure that's true.

[twosmoke300]

It happens on commercials a lot !

[djimbob]

I use a little copper grease on my nuts, it makes freeing them off so much easier. I've heard of someone using too much copper grease and their nuts rattling off but I'm not sure that's true.

 

I used too much on my transit front brake caliper when changing the discs and pads, with the result of some rattling and knocking, which I cured by simply tightening the bolts up again - so yes, lesson learnt, be very frugal with the grease and tighten everything up nice and firm

[djimbob]

just read this thread from start to finish over the last two days, fascinating and very informative, thank you all

 

I'm a chap who loves his wafting, and I have only ever had a BX I think, which had less than enjoyable suspension compared to how I imagined it to be, but was a cheapie MOT failure, with a severe smoking problem, so I got shut sharpish.

 

I'd love to know what the opinion is on these Citroen's, especially the XM, with regard to ride quality, compared to my usual choice of barge, such as Jags, big Lexus, Scorpio's, that kind of thing? I have only owned Jags with regular suspension, and never a rangie, not sure I've even been in one to be honest!

 

Currently my fleet consists of mainly Korean shite, which is surprisingly comfy, aside from the Atoz obvs, the Magentis is a lovely ride, and the Sedona isn't bad either for a dizzler, whilst the transit is an auto and soaks up most bumps very nicely - in fact that is possibly the most relaxing of all to drive parking and such aside.

 

i guess I am also on the quest for the perfect car/vehicle, even 'tho logically it doesn't exist considering the diverse tasks I would need it to do - a combo of vehicles is the answer probably, but it is fun trying all the different marques out to see if I can find that special one

 

I have thought about the vehicles that have made me either laugh out loud with joy, similarly made me very excited to drive on a regular basis, and there are but a handful - one was a toyota Liteace auto from Salford, five hundred squids, but so much fun to drive, the turning circle was insanely good, the next a Lexus Ls 400, couldn't stop blithering on how good it was on the test drive, and barely got a discount as a result, but I didn't care - fantastic, and finally a 6.5 litre diesel auto Chevvy G30 (I think) ex ambulance, rhd,with so much torque it was unlike anything I've driven before or since

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but these Citroens are fabulous and I've wanted one for years since a lad I worked with nearly bankrupted himself with one back in the nineties

[dollywobbler]

The bad news is that the XM rides pretty much like a bigger BX. A little softer, with a bit more of a wafty float when everything is tip-top, but the strut front suspension is still crap over sharp potholes and the like. Mind you, it still feels like a bloody Rolls-Royce compared to the Prelude, which notices every minor blemish in the road surface. 

 

Where the XM really scores is over undulating ground. Not great over crests (same as any hydraulic Citroen), but when the wheels are moving up and down a lot, you barely feel a thing. But the XM feels incredibly nimble for its size too, as I reminded myself with a quick test hoon yesterday after the brake work. Has to be said though, the Prelude has far, far better steering. 

[djimbob]

I have to say experience tells me the best vehicles to soak up our nation's potholes and speed bumps are the big heavy one's, but I live in hope a smaller car can be made to cope equally well! the laws of physics usually have something to say about that 'tho

 

The smoothest ride I ever had really was my old Iveco welfare bus, with amazing lorry driver seat, and probably air suspension now I think on, but rather impractical for all but it's original useage. My back really doesn't cope well with the average motor car's ability to soak up bumps, so this is a really big thing for me, every other positive is a bonus really

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I have never been in an XM - or a BX, and it was so long since I last rode in a Xantia, I can't remember it! I do find the XM interesting though, as I do the CX. It is the styling and individuality of the design and mechanicals. How do they compare with the Jaguar XJ40 for ride and handling?

[forddeliveryboy]

Some may say better ride at high speed, probably not as well at low speeds. Jags rely on mass, insulation (foam, carpet, rubber) and good springing to achieve the correct waftiness for this country. Handling is totally subjective, I'd choose a 40 over an XM for handling but many wouldn't agree.

 

I've driven a 4.0 Sov back to back with both a CX Turbo and an XM turbo the length of England one hot Spring day in the late 90s, the XM was the car all three of us decided was the one least likely to be bagged if the choice were ours. The Sov and CX were deemed equally amazing, complete with imperfections, but feeling as if a small team of highly-dedicated car nuts had engineered them both to perfection. I love Jaguars for the way they make you feel better about a cold, drizzly day.

[dollywobbler]

Indeed. I've not driven an XJ40, but the ride in an X300 is nothing short of remarkable given that it's just coils and dampers. Around town, the Jag is leagues ahead. Especially as even though XM's are good compared to some French cars, the interior plastics can still be a bit prone to rattles. Having had the back end out twice, quite alarmingly* the second time in the Jag, I guess I probably prefer good old FWD handling.

 

* entirely my fault when I manage to provoke a bit of lift off oversteer at 60mph at the start of a motorway slip road having tested acceleration on the roundabout. Arm twirling and throttle application gathered it all back up again! That car has had a pretty serious suspension overhaul then, but it was still impressive even in 'tired' form.

[Andrew353w]

I've had an automatic 1994 Xantia for almost 7 years-BRILLIANT!!! I've learnt a great deal about the spheres and L.H.M. fluid & how to change them. The car is truly bullet-proof and I've done over 80,000 miles in it. Changing the spheres is pretty easy once you've mastered the technique and is much easier, quicker and cheaper than changing shock absorbers and springs! Oil/plugs/filters/brakes/electrics are all pretty normal (for a French car, that is!) and all my electric windows, central remote locking and sunroof still work perfectly! The only huge expenditure has been new radius arms (£700, including 2 new rear tyres, new back box & new front hand brake cables.)

 

If they're looked after and you have a Citroen-friendly mechanic you'll love them! I'd have another Xantia tomorrow, but as mine's going perfectly I don't need to!

[Lukas]

Interesting to read about the different suspenion-types in the big Citroens and Jags. 

 

But one thing I have to say is: The XM can´t be compared to Jaguar XJs. 

 

The XM is a middle-class-car, maybe upper-middle-class (Gehobene Mittelklasse). With FWD, with a variety of engines

from a n/a-diesel up to the V6, with different trim levels from poverty to luxury. 

 

The Jaguar XJs on the other had are upper-class-cars (Oberklasse), so they have to be compared to the Mercedes-Benz S-Class

or the Lexus LS. Not the competitors Citroen had in mind I guess. 

[dollywobbler]

Indeed. Plus my rattly old XM will do 48mpg, which no X300 is going to get anywhere near. It's why I own the XM and not an X300!

[Lukas]

Wow, I looked what 48 mpg are in my world.  That´s ~ 5,9 litres on 100km. That´s remarkable and extremely good. 

[dollywobbler]

It's pretty impressive. I've done 800 miles between fills and have wondered whether I could get 1000 miles from a tank. If I drove in a boring manner, I reckon I probably could.

[Lacquer Peel]

Do they have a 90 litre tank? I've heard 1000 miles tanks are possible with an XM diesel.

 

1990s Peugeots and Citroens with conventional suspension ride really well, in most conditions that setup copes better than HP suspension. I was really impressed with the horrible Xsara 1.9D I had for a month, it sailed over potholes while my V70 clattered into them.

[beko1987]

Indeed. Plus my rattly old XM will do 48mpg, which no X300 is going to get anywhere near. It's why I own the XM and not an X300!

It's the reason I had to get rid of my XM and got the ZX, I couldn't live with 28mpg even when driving like a nun, it just wasn't fun, and I don't like driving not being fun, or at least affordable.

 

Having to go somewhere in the Meriva with Amy because I couldn't afford the petrol in the XM because I only had 1/2 a tank for the next week of commuting and didn't have another £50 for another 1/2 a tank  grated muchly!

 

Still doesn't mean I don't miss the XM at least twice a week

[dollywobbler]

Just buy a diesel XM! Sorted.

[beko1987]

If/when I can afford one, I will! If you ever roffle yours Ill have a ticket or two!

 

Sadly (or not depending on your viewpoint) most decont xm's get sold before they are even advertised, although I keep half an eye on club xm just in case!

[dollywobbler]

There are some extraordinary prices being asked. Have you seen that white SED? I know it's got a few more toys than mine, and a bit of timber to lighten the interior up, but £2050? I'd be thrilled if mine is worth half that. 

[Lankytim]

I'm tempted to punt my W reg 2.1 Auto XM on if there's enough interest. Lovely condition but needs a head gasket. I just don't know when I'm going to have time to do it. It'll be cheap and only has 96k on the clock!

[Bear]

I'm tempted to punt my W reg 2.1 Auto XM on if there's enough interest. Lovely condition but needs a head gasket. I just don't know when I'm going to have time to do it. It'll be cheap and only has 96k on the clock!

 

What sort of cheap? 2.1s needing head gaskets generally do, unlike 2.5s where I have major fear of porous head casting. Lovely condition sounds worth the effort...

[phil_lihp]

Indeed. I've not driven an XJ40

 

Next time you're in the area, I can fix that for you.