Will new VEL rules affect selling chod?

[Bren]

I think they will.

 

People who drive with no insurance should be made to eat their own shit, however I along with many on this forum have flogged motors to people we suspect have no insurance.

 

The big clue is when somebody is more concerned about how much tax a car has rather than MOT, a look on any internet site shows that old chod with no tax is nigh on impossible to shift - the feckers know without insurance they won't be getting another disc. I remember Quentin Willson telling a story about a mate who sold bangers - instead of MOT and a set of mats he put six months tax on his cars and could'nt sell them quickly enough.

 

At the moment I am looking at a very nice E46 touring which is taxed until November. However, the new rules mean that the seller has to cash the tax in. If I buy it it means I have to tax it to get it from Devon back to Cheshire.

 

Another problem is selling my wife's car - the tax is up at the end of the month. I appreciate that the type of people it may attract would drive with no insurance, it seems now that I have little chance of selling it under the new rules.

 

Is this a ploy to steer people away from old cars? Or is to catch out those who don't purchase insurance.

 

Opinions?

[Rocket88]

To be quite honest, once people get used to the idea, I don't think it will make any difference.the chancers will know that the possibility of them getting caught are pretty slim.

[dave21478]

Its the same as every change to motoring laws...Sorn, continuous insurance etc etc.....it only serves to make our lives a little bit harder as we try to comply and does absolutely nothing to deter those who dont give a damn and roll without bothering about tax or insurance.

[Ratdat]

I don't think you need insurance to tax a car now anyway as as there's no tax to display I can't see how it'd make any difference.

[cort16]

It's going to pretty hard to enforce for the few hours you're driving home plus the DVLA (i believe) are only going to refund it to the end of the month. If you buy the car on the 20th technically the VED is covered to the end of the month by the previous owner.

Previously the car needed to be on MID to tax the car even if you didn't have the insurance certificate but there no way the insurance companies are going to update MID in enough time for me to be able to use this to tax the car on line. It'll all come out in the wash I guess.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Just buy it, insure it and drive it home. sort out the tax when you get there.

[Bren]

I have just been laughing at the number of cars for sale in ebay with "XXX road tax".

 

Not everybody is aware of the new rules - a lot of buyers and sellers are going to get caught out methinks.

[cort16]

If the car is taxed now you can still sell it on I think. It's once the new rules come in you're up the plums.

[dollywobbler]

If the car is taxed now you can still sell it on I think. It's once the new rules come in you're up the plums.

 

Correct. For just over a week, then it's all change. I echo Bollox's wisdom. If the car was taxed, just drive home, then sort it out if needs be. Of course, you will effectively be able to tax a car for just a month with the new direct debit system I guess. I look forward to testing that. The 2CV will be going Direct Debit on 1st October. Hopefully.

[barefoot]

Correct. For just over a week, then it's all change. I echo Bollox's wisdom. If the car was taxed, just drive home, then sort it out if needs be. Of course, you will effectively be able to tax a car for just a month with the new direct debit system I guess. I look forward to testing that. The 2CV will be going Direct Debit on 1st October. Hopefully.

 

I agree as well. I also think that even if it's not taxed, drive it home and sort it out.

You're going to have to meet a seriously unreasonable policeman who'll nick you for that surely?

Isn't there/Wasn't there five days leeway at the beginning of a month anyway?

& how long will it take in practice from being spotted on a ANPR, to the picture arriving on someones desk who will check before sending out the letter?

Or is it all automated & the ANPR cameras send the letters direct?

Even so, I'm pretty sure an honest chap such as myself could have it taxed before the court summons arrived.

[cort16]

Is the monthly payment thing coming in straight away I thought that was phase 2?

[dollywobbler]

Is the monthly payment thing coming in straight away I thought that was phase 2?

 

Found elsewhere. "If you’re planning to set up a direct debit at the Post Office, you’ll need to wait until October 5."

[Bren]

I am not concerned about getting the other car.

 

It is estimated that 50% of the motoring public are unaware of the new rules - what concerns me is that I may not be able to sell my other half's car because of this.

 

Because it will not be taxed they will look for another - without knowing that after October 1st you cannot sell a vehicle with tax - no doubt the vendors of "taxed" vehicle's will plead ignorance and swear they knew nothing about the changes.

[dave21478]

I agree as well. I also think that even if it's not taxed, drive it home and sort it out.

You're going to have to meet a seriously unreasonable policeman who'll nick you for that surely?

Isn't there/Wasn't there five days leeway at the beginning of a month anyway?

& how long will it take in practice from being spotted on a ANPR, to the picture arriving on someones desk who will check before sending out the letter?

Or is it all automated & the ANPR cameras send the letters direct?

Even so, I'm pretty sure an honest chap such as myself could have it taxed before the court summons arrived.

I dont think it really matters either way. If the car was taxed, you go to buy it.....fill out the logbook and go home. The car will remain taxed on the computer system until the seller sends the logbook to DVLA and they refund remaining whole months left to the seller.

You will be home and dry by the time he has found a stamp and got the logbook into a postbox. Any ANPR or plod you pass on the way home will see the car as taxed according to the system and since there is no disc on display (or not)  to say otherwise, have no reason to pull you over.

 

 

Now, since DVLA will only be refunding entire months of tax at a time, the question is what happens for the rest of the month? Will you get away with driving it till the 30th and then taxing it for yourself, or is that fraction of a month voided when DVLA receive the logbook and change the keeper?

[forddeliveryboy]

^^ This is the nub of it. I think on a previous thread it was thought that the only possible way of it working was for DVLA not to try and sell that month's tax twice over. It would look greedy and unlawful once the papers got hold of their first victim. Everyone knows govt tries to increase tax revenue to pay for Social Security/NHS/the massive national debt, but not in such a blatantly dubious way.

 

It will make most sense to buy in the second half of the month, until things are settled. Or not.

[Partridge]

Just buy it, insure it and drive it home. sort out the tax when you get there.

Isn't that illegal though? What if PC Plod pulls you over?

[cort16]

I think the monthly payment will be good for serial chod changers as you'll not have to constantly stump up hundreds of quid when you change your car.

If you're monthly RFL bill is more than £200 month it's time for a fleet review.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Isn't that illegal though? What if PC Plod pulls you over?

 

Thats just the point - he won't. And even if he does, he's not going to do anything.

[Partridge]

All you need is one jobsworth bastard though...

[forddeliveryboy]

I think the monthly payment will be good for serial chod changers as you'll not have to constantly stump up hundreds of quid when you change your car.

 

 

It'll be good for government, too - when they increase the yearly cost by £100, it'll appear as less than a tenner difference to most people.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

If you meet a jobsworth bastard he’ll find a way to ruin your day regardless.

 

If you have just bought a car and have a piece of paper to say so, no copper is going to nail you for having no tax, specially when he looks it up on his own DVLA checker thing and it comes up as taxed.

[Partridge]

True. I am under 25 and drive a car, therefore an enemy of the state so things like that play on my mind.

[Taff]

 

Now, since DVLA will only be refunding entire months of tax at a time, the question is what happens for the rest of the month? Will you get away with driving it till the 30th and then taxing it for yourself, or is that fraction of a month voided when DVLA receive the logbook and change the keeper?

 

The cynic in my sees it like this. The car has already been taxed. Then sold. Now a law-abiding new owner re-taxes it straight away, and the old owner leaves it a few days before sending the paperwork in, and guess what.? That car has been double-taxed for a few days & DVLA are up a few quid in the tax stakes. And if , say, 75% of 2nd hand car sales work like that (no reason to assume they won't), pretty soon you are talking some serious money.

 

Anyone seen my tin-foil hat?

[Taff]

True. I am under 25 and drive a car, therefore an enemy of the state so things like that play on my mind.

 

Bring back national service etc

[chaseracer]

Found elsewhere. "If you’re planning to set up a direct debit at the Post Office, you’ll need to wait until October 5."

 

I shall wait a week or so before I tax the Merc, then...

[Cavcraft]

So...how do you tax it when the V5 will still show the last keeper on the V5 until it comes back in your name? If you taxed it on the day you bought it, and awaited the previous owner to CASHBACK the tax they put on it, what happens? Also if it will run to the end of the month does that mean the new owner can tax it in a fortnight (or whatever) as the previous tax is still current with last owner?

[Stixy]

 If the car is taxed but only registered on the dealer slip  what happens when its sold will the previous owner get an unexpected  windfall ?

[Rusty_Rocket]

I think it's amazing that the dvla can introduce such a radically different system without officially telling anyone how it's properly going to work. 

It's a total shambles already and I can assure you, my police constable pal is in the dark about it just as much as we are.. 

[dave21478]

So...how do you tax it when the V5 will still show the last keeper on the V5 until it comes back in your name? If you taxed it on the day you bought it, and awaited the previous owner to CASHBACK the tax they put on it, what happens? Also if it will run to the end of the month does that mean the new owner can tax it in a fortnight (or whatever) as the previous tax is still current with last owner?

 

I read a thing which suggested that there is to be a 24hr phoneline and online thingy to tax a car, so theoretically if you buy something at 9pm on a Sunday you could tax it there and then for the drive home.

Since this is being introduced especially for this sort of situation I would assume that anyone can tax a car now no matter who the registered keeper is - I would assume it needs the V5 serial number to be entered and you probably have an option to press to say you are the new keeper, which I would assume would prevent your tax money being refunded to the previous owner when he sends the V5 in.

 

Thats three fairly large assumptions and one "probably" in one sentence......the reality will quite possibly be a complete clusterfuck for the first few months until things settle down and the general public catch on about it all.

[forddeliveryboy]

I reckon people will simply buy tax starting at the beginning of the next month. Who's going to pay DVLA twice for the same month? - but then again our fuel price is already a tax on a tax and nobody kicks up a fuss.

 

Some little legal jobbie in Swansea is probably reading our threads now and working out how to make the already-paid-for unrefunded-tax-due-again debate hold water.