Think once, think twice, think bike

[bigstraight6]

Is it just me, or do the majority of road users on two wheels have a death wish? seemingly no week goes by without another tragic story of a biker fatality in the local news. And on almost every journey you see some sheer lunacy usually involving lots of speed, undertaking and weaving all over the road. Only earlier we were approaching a box junction controlled by traffic lights and the lights were changing to red so I started slowing for the stop, when a bike behind suddenly undertook and stormed across the junction after the traffic lights had changed to red, not to far away from the bonnet of an old Merc 300 who had right of way!These guys will be uninsurable soon

[nigel bickle]

Yep. As a longtime biker I see both sides.It does seem to most car drivers that bikers have a death wish -and frankly, many do, but there are a load of good ones out there too.Most modern superbikes have acceleration and braking beyond belief -and in 'safe hands'; its a joy. But there does seem to be an increasing number of muppets out to die a slow and horrible death riding these days.A greater awareness- on both sides seems to be the most pragmatic answer.Either that -or ban 'em!

[Torsten2001]

I certainly used to have a death wish on my bike back in the day, nearly fulfilled that death wish a few times too, I think it's part of growing up...recently I've actually got the fear and hardly been riding at all. Bikes are enormous fun, immensely powerful and with the invincibility of youth there's always going to be trouble, truth is the majority of accidents involving bikes are not their fault. Again in my youth I recall a fast ride on A roads from Manchester to somwhere near Ullswater on a 650cc Triton as being THE most exciting motoring experience of my life.I'd shoot scooter riders though (not Vespa or Lambretta mind)

[Guest greenvanman]

  torsten said:

I'd shoot scooter riders though (not Vespa or Lambretta mind)

That's me shot then What did I do?

[Torsten2001]

Sorry GVM, my ire is reserved for the 16 yr old with the helmet balanced on his head and Pizza delivery riders!

[Marty]

Its fugging 50Cc bikes that should be banned - utter crap and unsafe in modern traffic.Teach people to ride something decent and get them out there - There is a lot to be said for doing 2 wheels for a year before you go onto 4 wheels - I think it makes you more road savvy and responsible to other traffic.

[Guest greenvanman]

  torsten said:

Sorry GVM, my ire is reserved for the 16 yr old with the helmet balanced on his head and Pizza delivery riders!

Oh well, I certainly don't fit either or those categories so I guess I get to live

  Marty said:

Its fugging 50Cc bikes that should be banned - utter crap and unsafe in modern traffic.Teach people to ride something decent and get them out there - There is a lot to be said for doing 2 wheels for a year before you go onto 4 wheels - I think it makes you more road savvy and responsible to other traffic.

I'd agree with most of what you say, Marty, but I have to say one of my scoots is a 50 and it doesn't hold anyone up in traffic. Granted those Chinese 4-stroke things that struggle to reach 30mph are hopeless, but there's all sorts of reasons why you shouldn't buy one of those anyway.

[Baz]

I see so much poor riding....Particularly in/around the city....Usually involves inappropriate speed, and poor positioning....It's little wonder that motorcyclists get branded as prats....Most of them seem to be!

 

In only a boy myself ( ), but I've 29 years motorcycling experience....21 of them on the road....I find that I can make just as good progress through traffic as these nutters WITHOUT making myself look like a plonker/upsetting people....It merely requires You to read the road, put Yourself where people can see You, and assume that every car driver is an idiot!

[pandamonium]

Its not just bikers, it seems to be everybody on the roads! I'm sick and tired of the people who feel that because (in their opinion) they have a better, faster or newer vehicle, they have right of way over all others. I am by no means a slow driver, but as people waiting at a junction see a Lada approaching, they assume it'll be going too slow to hit them! I cannot count the amount of times, in various shite cars, I have ended up sliding towards the side of a newish BMW or SAAB with my horn blaring because they thought they could make it!!!!!!!!Ok rant over for now.

[55bloke]

I'm gonna go into "Grumpy Old Man" mode now!! I think the problem is a basic lack of respect and good manners accross all parts of society, especially in the young, which manifests it's self most lethally when on 2 or 4 wheels. Last week, we were second in a line of traffic waiting to turn right across a VERY busy main road, so the wait for a gap was rather long. Car 3 in the line was a chavved-up Saxo, which suddenly pulled out and drew alongside the car at the front, as if he'd decided to turn left instead. But, what he actually did, was turn right!! Across the nose of the car at the front!! And causing cars on the busy road to brake hard and blast their horns, to which the young driver merely stuck up a finger. He risked his own life and that of several others, all for the sake of reaching the next set of traffic lights a few minutes earlier than he might otherwise have done. Where are the traffic cops when you need them?

[retrogeezer]

Similar thing happened to my other half a couple of weeks back....she was waiting to turn tight at a T junction (onto a notoriously bad road with 3 lots of flowers within 50 feet either way). She was waiting for a safe gap to pull out and had my daughter in the back (with a child on board thing in the rear window) and the bloke behind kept tooting at her.After a minute or so, he pulls around her nearside, and then pulls out into the main road causing the car coming from the right to brake gard and skid to a halt inches from my girlfriends car. It could have been worse as he could have swerved straight into her.Meanwhile, the inconsiderate prat in the other car does drives off without a car in the world while my girlfriend and the other chap just look at each other in disbelief...Of course, less patrols and more speed cameras are a big help here...

[vicsmith]

I think there are two different kinds of bikers here - one kind that have been riding for many years and worked their way up through the ranks, and the other type who arent really bikers, just people who have recently copped for a redundancy payout or a promotion, were going to spend it on a fast car but realised that for their money, the 0-60 time will be a lot less if they go for a bike than it will be if they get a car.They then take the minimum required training that will allow them to get out on their Blackbird or whatever, and promptly have a massive crash on the A1. Most of the crashes I read about when I worked for the Yorkshire Post involved a brand new superbike and a 47-year old accountant.

[Karmann Ghiaman]

Think once, think twice, etc. is all very well, but bike riders are the ones who really have to do the thinking, aren't they? They are in a minority, their vehicles are inherently more dangerous. That TV safety info film where a motorist emerging from a side road collides with a bike irritates me because, let's face it, it's the biker's fault.

[retrogeezer]

Yep, if you look right, left and right again before pulling out you should not have to compensate for a motorcyclist doing 60 round a bend in a 30 or 40 limit.

[Guest greenvanman]

  Karmann Ghiaman said:

Think once, think twice, etc. is all very well, but bike riders are the ones who really have to do the thinking, aren't they? They are in a minority, their vehicles are inherently more dangerous. That TV safety info film where a motorist emerging from a side road collides with a bike irritates me because, let's face it, it's the biker's fault.

Yes, I have to do plenty of thinking when I'm out on two wheels, most of it to counter the behaviour of people with attitudes like yours who appear to think that the roads are their sole property.

 

You make some interesting, if indefensible, points in your post. For a start, what does being in a minority have to do with anything? Does that mean that I have less right to use the road than you? Are motorcycles really 'inherently more dangerous'? Sure, there's lots of bad riding out there, but that's got nothing to do with the mode of transport itself. You can drive badly in a car and kill yourself and a whole load of passengers too, so that's a non-starter.

 

And on to the final point, the road safety film you refer to. I'm curious to know whether you think that the vehicle on the main road would still be at fault if it had been a car instead of a motorcycle? Is it the biker's fault because he's speeding? How do you know he's speeding? If you take out a biker at a junction will it make you feel better about yourself to think "Oh well, I think he probably might have been speeding, so fuck it"?

 

Either way, that's a nice attitude to other road users (and fellow human beings) you've got there. Hope I never encounter you on the road - I meet enough selfish, arrogant dickheads in cars as it is, thanks.

[pandamonium]

I've never fallen off a car.

[55bloke]

I have to admit, I'm surprised it took this long for a reply along the lines of Greenvanman's, though perhaps not QUITE so vehement!! I don't really see how the accident in the ad. can be said to be the biker's fault, and surely taking a bit more care is preferable to having an accident like that- or any other sort, really?

[pandamonium]

I feel that everybody should take more care, given the tragedies that occur. Bikes are way more dangerous than cars, but that means that we should be more careful around them. Its just a shame there are so many bikers who are as ignorant as their 4 wheeled conterparts. I must say though, I get cut up more by BMW and Saab drivers than I do bikes!!! There should be a co-operation on the roads between all users, not a full scale war. (Except cyclists, they don't pay road tax! (ONLY KIDDING!!!!)) Right, who wants this soapbox???

[ChinaTom]

Two things:I only have a problem with bikers who weave in between lanes in motorway jams at high speed. I don't mind them doing this providing they do it at less than 20 mph. You always get a opportunist lane changer (4-wheeled) who outruns an artic when a lane gets going, and how many of them in their quest to shave 2 seconds off their journey bother with the wing mirror? I've seen a fair few near misses and the odd wing mirror clipped as leather-boy takes avoiding action. And I once fell off a car. Sitting on the folded down hood of a mate's Mum's XR3i cab supping an owd Roger when my mate's foot slipped off the clutch and sent me head over heels backwards. pride the only injury other than small elbow dent on the boot. Didn't spill a drop though

[pandamonium]

  ChinaTom said:

And I once fell off a car.

There's always one.....

[Karmann Ghiaman]

Apologies to greenvanman & all other bikers: fear not! I have been amongst you myself on a BMW R75 many years ago, and they were happy days. My biking career mirrored the whole British motorcycle industry because it was put paid to by girlfriends (one in particular, now Mrs KGman) who wanted to sit IN our affordable means of transport, not ON it all the time. (Something to do with the desired shortness of her skirt and height of her heels at the time). But of course riding a bike is one of the most brilliant, wonderful things you can ever do, 'specially when you're 22 and doing a ton on the Oxford Bypass when speed cameras were just an evil glint in Mr Gatsodakis's creepy Graeco-Dutch eyes.

 

The joy of meeting like-minded brethren, both on the road and - best of all - when you went into a country pub (used to like them in those days too) in your leathers, carrying your helmet, and there were other bikers already there. Best Cameraderie of the Road EVER (in second childhood this is to be had with classic cars and, dare I say it? HERE too with autoshite, he he). My bike mentor, Brummie Richard (who reached the exalted heights of an R90S), was known as 'Mr Sensible' - he really did read the Highway Code wear one of those flourescent yellow things - yes, on a BMW; but we were young, our reactions quick. Worst prang was with a stupid traffic island, not, thank God, a stupid driver.

 

As a car driver I never forget what it was like to be on a bike - and that goes for the engineless type too. Always look out for them and always give them plenty of room. What's annoying about that safety film on TV isn't that bikers are particularly at fault - it's the way the government & the Old Bill, who made the film of course, seek to once again blame car drivers who (a) might just also be voters and ( are put to enough trouble & expense just trying to get from A to B as it is!

 

[nigel bickle]

Many many moons ago -when I were but a lad -I taught 'defensive riding' for the RAC/ACU. Effectively working on the premise that you WILL have an accident -I tried to teach spotty teenagers how to survive it -usually by using the bike to protect themselves -and avoiding those immovable objects.I know that training has helped me (and Mrs B -who also has a full licence -and biked around Europe,despite being a tiny5ft) -and like to hope that its saved a few others too.Perhaps more time needs spending on understanding each and everyone's else's perspective (truckers too)?

[garethj]

I know we're all about blame, it's been hammered into us as kids and we carry the idea through out adult lives too (ambulance chasers have a special place in hell of course) but I think it's far better to promote defensive driving - the fact that you can prevent accidents that are not your fault if you look where you're going is an alien concept to many.Gareth

[retrogeezer]

I've just had to take avoiding action 3 times along a half mile stretch of road to avoid 3 motorcyclists travelling in the opposite direction, on my side of the road and expecting me to be able to distinguish their headlights from all the cars travelling towards me....fooking tossers.

[Wolseley1660man]

  Karmann Ghiaman said:

Think once, think twice, etc. is all very well, but bike riders are the ones who really have to do the thinking, aren't they? They are in a minority, their vehicles are inherently more dangerous. That TV safety info film where a motorist emerging from a side road collides with a bike irritates me because, let's face it, it's the biker's fault.

What!!

 

If you emerge from a side road and hit a vehicle it is your fault. I know that ad. Even with the motorcycle's poor road position, it is the fault of the car, completely. I can grasp why so many cars pull out on motorcycles. They think they have the right. Read the rules of the road.

 

I note that a rather consistent 75% plus of accidents involving cars and motorcycles (reference and the Hurt Report and MAIDS) were the fault of the car. The roads would be a far better place if there were fewer cars and more motorcycles (failing that push-bikes, also much maligned). It is a stupendously efficient way to commute, and if the machine is well maintained and four stroke, it is good for the environment. I cannot count the instances of inattentive, unoberservant driving. Some idiots think that I should vacate my road position when they change lane, or pull out from a secondary road. VRSCRs have lorry loud horns. I use it often. It wakes up the little people. I should also mention I have not had one accident ever, unless one counts a tyre I let deflate and which made the machine tip over, in around five years of riding.

 

Too many riders ride beyond their skill, but that can said of any vehicle, really.

[gtd2000]

  Karmann Ghiaman said:

Think once, think twice, etc. is all very well, but bike riders are the ones who really have to do the thinking, aren't they? They are in a minority, their vehicles are inherently more dangerous. That TV safety info film where a motorist emerging from a side road collides with a bike irritates me because, let's face it, it's the biker's fault.

It's the bikers fault in the sense that he was stupid enough to think that the car driver could actually drive defensively and with consideration for other road users.

 

I started off on bikes and really had no intention of having a car until I lived in Germany.

 

Due to the -25c winter temps in Germany as a 19 year old lad I decided it would be better buying this little bugger instead of the Suzuki Katana 1100cc I really wanted.

 

 

I'm quite glad I did buy ythe car in the end to be honest but I really think learning to ride a motorcycle gives you a better learning experience should you live though it

 

I rode a GSX-R750 for many years in Hong Kong where they Chinese drivers are maniacs but simply assumed each and every time they would cut me up our pull out in front of me...and I was OK even if I did have a couple of close calls.

 

I was going to buy another motorcycle over here in Florida back in 2001 but the standard of driving, combined with the level of drink driving completely offended my common sense

 

The are more idiots on the roads these day to be fair - when I was roaring around the Scottish Borders on my bikes in the early to mid 80's it was all fairly safe even at highly illegal speeds.

 

Now when I go back to visit my old dear you hear ambulances screaming up the A7 virtually every night due to some plonker having or causing an accident

[pandamonium]

I once drove my little brothers 49cc scooter for about 100 yards, nearly fell off, and ever since then I have had utmost respect for all people brave enough to get on two wheels.

[wuvvum]

  pandamonium said:

I once drove my little brothers 49cc scooter for about 100 yards, nearly fell off, and ever since then I have had utmost respect for all people brave enough to get on two wheels.

My boss at work has had a bike license for 25 years and occasionally regales me with tales of his exploits on two wheels in his youth. He recently bought his son an Aprilia RS50 for his 16th birthday, and couldn't resist taking it for a quick spin. He got 100 yards down the road, tried to do a U turn and fell on his arse, dropping the brand new bike and knocking the indicator off as well as bending the gear lever. It's put him off any ideas of buying his brother's CBR600 anyway - possibly a good thing, as "born again" bikers are one of the most accident prone groups.

[r.welfare]

True.Most of the time the bikers I encounter are sensible and courteous - I always see them in my rearview mirror and move over if I can, 70% of the time I get a wave when they go past.But occassionally you get a pillock 3ft from your rear bumper, headlamp on full beam, weaving dangerously. More often than not, they will then go screaming past on a blind bend, oblivious to the double white lines. I just let them go, ease up a bit, and put as much distance between them and I.Interesting article in the local paper a few months back concerning a born again biker who had been killed on the A339 between Basingstoke and Alton. For those who don't know the road, it's a sweeping and challenging piece of tarmac, with lots of crests and dips, undulating corners, adverse camber and the like. It is a magnet for the Born Again crew of a Sunday morn.Anyway, the widow of said unfortunate chap went on record in the rag, pouring scorn on the council for 'not doing something about this dangerous road'. Said accident involved no other vehicle, mateyboy ran out of talent on one of the sharp bends at 80 and hit a tree - without throwing the bike away first. Go figure.

[gtd2000]

  r.welfare said:

Anyway, the widow of said unfortunate chap went on record in the rag, pouring scorn on the council for 'not doing something about this dangerous road'. Said accident involved no other vehicle, mateyboy ran out of talent on one of the sharp bends at 80 and hit a tree - without throwing the bike away first. Go figure.

An acquintance of mine lost his leg in a motorcycle accident - still blames the woman in the car with the child in the back seat for not running off the road into the trees when he cut the corner and collided with her car and caused the accident.....