LPG - talk at me

[Angry Sheep]

After covering my regular Hertfordshire to Shropshire drive this weekend, it's dawned on me that I love driving and don't particularly want to cut down on road trips - but, with my E34 being quite a heavy old thing, chucking petrol in it all of the time is crippling me.

 

I've half been looking out for a Volvo of some description, and a few of them I've noticed have been LPG converted. Would buying one of these be a wise move? I guess the key is to test drive them, make sure they drive OK and have been converted by a pro, preferably with a warranty.

 

It's hard to see past 70p/litre, especially as a Google search throws up several LPG stations locally.

 

Of course, the alternatives would be to buy something smaller and more efficient, or look at diesels. But as still a relatively young driver, insurance plays a bit part, and my insurance company seems to like big, thirsty petrol barges. Adding LPG doesn't seem to effect quotes much, either.

 

So, should I? It does strike me as more to go wrong, especially on the sub-£1k cars I'd be looking at in true AS style...

[castros_bro]

Surely this would be more the AS lifestyle choice/ answer to your personal problems

 

 

[CortinaDave]

It is good. I've run three cars on LPG - a calibra 2.0 8valve, a vectra SRI and a probe 2.0.

 

Of the above the calibra was by far the best. The 8v vauxhall engine is economical anyway and after I had the conversion done it was fantastic. This was back in 2005 when LPG was 37p a litre.

 

It was a simple single point tartarini kit and I paid £1200 to get it done. Ran up near 40k on it before the calibra died of an unrelated illness and had the kit moved to a probe.

 

This didn't take to it so well and had a habit of backfiring which would blow the plastic airbox sky high. Got fed up with it and moved the car on with the kit still attached.

 

A couple of years later I had a W Plate Sri vectra with a factory fit multipoint.

 

I didn't have the car long (it went on fire!! - not as a result of the LPG) but whilst I did have it it the dual fuel was working well.

 

One issue I found is it was harder to get general repairs done as the LPG scares mechanics and they'd run away - also the LPG specialists locally only looked after one kind of kit, so f you had anything else fitted you were fucked if it broke.

 

I'd do it again though.

[Junkman]

We had a Range Rover on LPG, and generally I couldn't fault it on overall running costs and performance.

However, the actual consumption in Litres per distance is higher than on petrol, due to a Litre of gas having a lower energy content than a Litre of petrol, and the engines are optimised for petrol use, thus being less efficient when fueled with gas.

Add to this, that the gas tanks are usually smaller than the petrol tanks, and you have a considerably reduced range per tank fill. What this means on long trips is, that you have to do more tank stops, and due to the significantly thinner network of gas outlets, journeys have to be carefully plotted in advance. Our Rangey had only 50 Litres of gas capacity, so the range between fill ups was a mere 200 odd miles. Ideally, the petrol tank should have been removed and replaced with another 100 litre gas bubble, thus supplementing the two 25 Litre underbelly tanks it already had, for a total capacity of 150 Litres, and a small - maybe 20 Litre - "emergency" petrol tank placed somewhere underneath.

 

We eventually got rid of it, because more and more local gas outlets stopped selling it, and we were eventually reduced to filling it at an industrial gas merchant's, that had no roof above the gas filling facility, and didn't accept any form of card payments. Also, the filling act itself is a slightly awkward chore, and the Junkwoman never really mastered it.

 

So overall, my experience is, that the admittedly significantly reduced running cost is offset by quite a few inconveniences and impracticalities. If the infrastructure in your area is better, and the car has a large enough gas tank, there is no real reason why you shouldn't consider it.

[Rusty_Rocket]

My experiences with LPG weren't so good. Had an Omega V6 with a modern sequential kit, a 4.6 RR with a mixer system and a Transit pinto with an even older (open loop) setup.

Sure, they give you a little saving on fuel but overal, I can't really recommend it.

LPG is expensive nowadays, the motor needs more of it than petrol and all types of system needs very regular maintenance.

I still have a sequential Romano system 'in stock' but have no desire to fit it to anything, diesel is just easier and cheaper I'm afraid 

[Junkman]

Tesco chip frying oil is just easier and cheaper I'm afraid 

 

EFA.

[HillmanImp]

I was not keen on the LPG on the Audi when I had it but Volksy loved it when he had it. 

 

I personally agree with almost everything Junkman said. However as a plus point, because it burns so so much cleaner than petrol oil changes are a lot less necessary. The oil never got dirty when I had it, it almost seemed like a shame to change it.

[skattrd]

I think I'd only buy another lpg motor if the system was multi-point/sequential and it came with an installation certificate. Oh and the tank has to be a decent size and give it a decent range. Small tanks with a range of 150-200 miles are a pain in the arse as you are constantly thinking about the next fill-up when on a run.

[320touring]

I used to run an e36 328 on a single point lpg system.

 

Did about 24k miles in about 14 months. Was ok for the most part. Needed a new vapouriser, which cost 80 quid and took an hr to fit.

 

Used to do 260 miles to 50l on a thrash 280 miles on a run.

 

Multi point would likely be my choice next time, and you need to work out the payback period vs the miles you do

[Richard]

I loved it on my C5. It takes the edge off the performance so you really have to go up an engine size. The tank displaces the spare tyre into the boot, so you might want a bigger boot to compensate.

 

It's best to have a certificate because a lot of insurance companies want one.

 

There's a smartphone application called FillLPG that tells you where the nearest gas is and how much, surprisingly up to date. Expect up to 30% of stations to be out of commission and start looking when you're down to half.

[Richard]

I loved it on my C5. It takes the edge off the performance so you really have to go up an engine size. The tank displaces the spare tyre into the boot, so you might want a bigger boot to compensate.

 

It's best to have a certificate because a lot of insurance companies want one.

 

There's a smartphone application called FillLPG that tells you where the nearest gas is and how much, surprisingly up to date. Expect up to 30% of stations to be out of commission and start looking when you're down to half.

[Lankytim]

Diesel is a better bet IMHO.

[gordonbennet]

Had the current Outback converted only 6 weeks ago,  our third LPG motor, still have the Benz (pic on left) and thats on LPG too, both run brilliantly, every bit as smooth on gas as petrol.

 

Bought an Outlander 1 already converted and ran that for 18 months, it ran fine but it never really endeared itself to us and we flogged it on for the Outback.

 

I ran Diesels for nigh on 30 years, but they've now just got too bloody complicated, and LPG is my fuel of choice for the forseeable, you can have the pleasure of 6 or 8 pot engines coupled to proper auto boxes with the fuelling costs of a Diesel of similar size, no contest.

My only regret is not going gas years before.

 

Filllpg.co.uk is the site you want for where to get fuel.

LPGforum.co.uk for further reading.

 

 

There's a lot to consider, LPG isn't for everyone.

First, stand back and really examine your car, does it have 5 years years plus left in it, do you like it enough to keep it that long, are you prepared to splash out lots of dosh if the auto box or engine or ECU  pops, cos you'll have sunk around £1300/1400 into getting a 6 pot done by a bloke that knows what he's doing so you're committed.

Where to put the tank, where to put the spare wheel if you have a toroidal tank in the spare wheel well, can you manage with less boot space if you have cylinder in the boot mounted behind the rear seats, as i have in the Benz...80 litre tank that.

Biggest question is where to get a conversion done, beware cheap and cheerful done in a day crews, bodgit and scarper that is as advertise on evilbay, they'll give you a 2 year or even a lifetime guarantee but will they still be there after 6 months.

 

Took the Outback for its 1000 mile recalibration and checkover last week, that took him around 4 hours by the time he'd sorted a couple of minor niggles (so how can they fit and set a system up in a day), and i wouldn't hesitate to recommend this chap to anyone, he's sound (make a good shiter) but 100 miles away, good converters are thin on the ground, he's done a good number of Subbies and has good feedback hence why i used him, lived up to his feedback too.

 

By the way, the most important part of LPGing is the raging hard ons it gives you, i'm a dissident i hate everything the governments our half wit electorates voted in for the past 30 years have done to this once lovely country.

So now when i fill up with LPG i pay a fuckin sight less tax to those bastards (to piss up the wall) than i would on petrol or Diesel, get a trouser tent to be proud of every time i fill up.

[brickwall]

LPG is great if your car comes with it fitted.

[DVee8]

All modern diesels are shit fact ours had to have a regen yesterday.That involved a 70mph+ blast over 13miles or so and used around £10 worth of fuel

.Mind if she didn't insist on using it for the school run,that is a 2mile round trip or nipping here or there then it may not happen as it dosn't get hot enough.But it is a car isn't that what it is there for?

 

As it is the bastard child of a Renault Nissan dalliance what can be expected.

[Richard]

LPG is great if your car comes with it fitted.

Indeed, the sums work best if somebody else has paid for the conversion.

[Junkman]

All moderns are shit

EFA

[forddeliveryboy]

All modern diesels are shit fact ours had to have a regen yesterday.That involved a 70mph+ blast over 13miles or so and used around £10 worth of fuel

.Mind if she didn't insist on using it for the school run,that is a 2mile round trip or nipping here or there then it may not happen as it dosn't get hot enough.But it is a car isn't that what it is there for?

 

 

A mile to school? Make them walk if it's not through a minefield.

[DVee8]

A mile to school? Make them walk if it's not through a minefield.

 

 

She is a school run mum in a 4x4!!!

 

I do,but as i work shifts,and i also have just burst my guts open and carn't drive for 6 weeks she is doing everything.What i try to get through is use the petrol car on the drive,she says she carn't get in due to her back.

[Bobthebeard]

Our Honda Accord has covered around 90,000 miles since we converted it to dual fuel. ( Now on 191,000 total ) No problems at all so far! The LPG system has never been serviced, owing to the guy that did the conversion being 50 miles away and always too busy. We use flashlube, get 30mpg, rarely have problems finding a garage that sells LPG and would convert the next car as soon as possible! The car does need to be a keeper though.

Occasionally get the MIL light coming on for a day or so, then it goes off for a month or so. Checking the fault code states 'fuel trim out of range' but never had any actual running issues.

[brickwall]

The rangie has an old  single point thing and is a bit outta date, but does the business really. Seems silly not to use it.

[forddeliveryboy]

She is a school run mum in a 4x4!!!

 

I do,but as i work shifts,and i also have just burst my guts open and carn't drive for 6 weeks she is doing everything.What i try to get through is use the petrol car on the drive,she says she carn't get in due to her back.

 

Make them walk on their own. Generations have thrived on this, until recently!

[forddeliveryboy]

Didn't Saab have a car which went better and was more economical on gas? Must have had a v high comp ratio.

[mat_the_cat]

I've done a handful of conversions, both single and multi point and would recommend the latter. I always noticed a bit of power loss with single point but with the multi point, not only can I change over at full throttle without noticing a drop in performance, changeover is so smooth I can't even tell when it has changed. I'd suggest that if performance isn't identical, the kit hasn't been set up correctly or is inadequate for the car.

 

DIY conversion is an option, but your insurance company *may* want it checked (not a legal requirement) so ask them first. Toby at Independent Autogas in Ludlow is a decent bloke and will check over DIY systems without sucking through teeth and telling you that you should have paid for a pro job...

 

If you do lots of short journeys, remember that with a multi point you'll be running for a mile or so on petrol from cold which may be significant. Single point can be switched over from cold.

[twosmoke300]

The golden nugget (saab 900 auto) seemed to run fine on gas once it had

done a couple of miles to warm up. Mr livered has it now to swap into his one

[lisbon_road]

I ran my Ford Sierra on it for about 80,000 miles, mostly as a Leonardo closed loop system with a cone injector.  Was great, kept the oil clean and the engine.

 

It is a bit of an enthusiasts thing.  Needs the ignition system to be in good shape, which is no problem if you maintain. 

 

Would really like to get my current car, a Mk3 Astra, on it too.  Got to get my act together!

 

It is great from a very slightly anarchic point of view and should be obligatory for anyone on this forum IMHO.

[DVee8]

Make them walk on their own. Generations have thrived on this, until recently!

That depends on what age they are and how many main roads they need to cross.

[brickwall]

I can confirm that there is a power loss on the single point system. It's fine for milling about, but on the back roads you have to switch it off for serious hooning.

[forddeliveryboy]

That depends on what age they are and how many main roads they need to cross.

 

Agreed, I wouldn't want mine even walking alongside some roads in urban Britain, let alone crossing them.

[forddeliveryboy]

As lisbon_road mentions, ignition side of things needs to be tiptop. The higher the compression ratio the better as gas doesn't preignite like pez. My mate had a late 80s Rangie on gas and it saved him a packet - we even drove across Europe in it but at low temps the gas would freeze things up and petrol was needed.

 

Anyone had experience of diesels on gas? - I know waste veg oil makes more sense but not much 2000- runs on it.