Urgent-ish help no longer required (I R STILL R3T4RD)

[MrDuke]

What exactly am I missing with this bolt?

 

 

 

 

Is there something really obvious that I'm not doing (apart from the most obvious, which is chucking it into a quarry, with the rest of the van attached)?

 

I've tried various socket/BFH/impact combos to no avail whatsoever, and have spent quite a long time bouncing my arse on the end of a 600mm breaker bar. I also tried all those things in the other direction, just in case it had a LH thread.

 

Because it's recessed into the hub/disc, I can't get at it with a grinder or even a nut splitter. I'd happily buy a 2nd-hand shaft & hub, except the discs are integral and I'd therefore need a pair of shafts etc from the same van.

 

Any ideas?

[barefoot]

Have you tried hammering a smaller etc.

[Rusty_Rocket]

All I can suggest is a bigger bar.

What's odd is the fact it doesn't appear to have been 'staked' into place. Wonder if someone has been there before you (with a gorilla that did it up  )

[eddyramrod]

You have soaked it in penetrating oil, of course? Beyond that, how about an application of heat to expand the nut slightly?

[Ratdat]

If I had to do this and couldn't get it undone, I'd drill into the nut here with a small drill bit...

 

 

 

Then a slightly larger one and repeat until it's broken through to the thread. Then I'd bash a small chisel into it to split the remainder and open the nut up slightly. That should loosen it enough to undo. 

[MrDuke]

Ta for the advice Ratdat, that does seem to be the only option, luckily new nuts are cheap & easy to get. Unfortunately all my drill bits are apparently made of cheese, so yet another trip to the tool shop tomorrow in pursuit of some hideously expensive ones.

Out of interest, what should I be looking for? Tungsten? It's all witchcraft to me I'm afraid (although there's no guarantee they'll actually have 'proper' ones anyway).

[Ratdat]

Normal HSS ones might be okay but Cobalt ones would be better. Depends if it's really hard steel. It doesn't look to have deformed from your efforts so far so I'd guess it may be quite hard. They don't necessarily need to be expensive. I've bought really good bit sets from Lidl before. 

 

Alternatively a carbide burr in a die grinder might butcher it off?

[the judge]

Scaffold bar slid over the top of a breaker bar.

"Give me a lever long enough, I will move the world"

 

Someone said that. ..

[overrun]

Scaffold bar slid over the top of a breaker bar.

"Give me a lever long enough, I will move the world"

Someone said that. ..

Once tried similar with a friends 323 GTR and it was turning the wheel(s) when still on the ground.

Then the breaker bar snapped inside the 'scaffy' bar.

 

A garage apaprently got it free. I am guessing with copious application of oxy-acetylene.

[overrun]

What exactly am I missing with this bolt?

 

 

Any ideas?

[FORUMKNOBBA]The fact it is a nut[/FORUMKNOBBA]

 

Step away from the tool box etc.

[gordonbennet]

I keep an old torque wrench, which must be 2'6" long for jobs like this, perfect, doesn't bend even a fraction of an inch no matter how much leverage you put on, impact socket with as short as poss or preferably no extension, it always works.

 

You'd need one hell of a hammer and drift to stake that nut over, the new nut i received in the wheel bearing kit for the Subbie was as thick as that no good at all, impossibly to stake without fracturing the bloody nut edge, got two proper ones sitting here waiting to go on now, sensible thickness ridge for driving into the groove.

[dave21478]

Oxy acetylene is for WINNERS. Its a hefty investment and its not something you use every day, but by Christ its effective. Stuck and rusty nuts and bolts just need a tickle to get them free enough to turn with ease.

 

Something like this would be handy for occasional use....

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/CTL8850108X

[Luckythirteen]

I was going to suggest a torque multiplier, but they ain't cheap. Although if there's a truck/agri yard near, they might have one.

If you can get a loan of one, not much resists them for long.

[Lacquer Peel]

Heat helps loads, even one of those crappy wee butane blowtorches.

[dollywobbler]

This is where an impact driver comes in handy. I gave in and bought a corded one for about £50 when a BX hub nut defeated me and broke several tools. The impact driver just did its thing and off it came. Could try a manual approach and give it a few whacks with a hammer, then get the breaker bar on it. You might get lucky. 

 

Impact drivers are great.

[Grundig]

Me thinks = its been cross threaded, but then again I don't do that much thinkin 

[Timewaster]

Heat helps loads, even one of those crappy wee butane blowtorches.

To quote an oxyacetelene wielding friend : "Cherry the Fukka" which I think means "get it very hot indeed".

[Barry Cade]

If it's a hub nut, and you don't have a big blue spanner, either jam the breaker bar on the ground and flick the starter in 1st gear with 1 wheel on the ground, or jam the hub and jack the breaker bar with a trolley jack. Make sure you use an impact socket..

[mat_the_cat]

I was going to suggest a torque multiplier, but they ain't cheap. Although if there's a truck/agri yard near, they might have one.

If you can get a loan of one, not much resists them for long.

 

I've got a 4:1 ratio one that I've used a handful of times. It was beaten once by the hub nut on the Focus, when it lifted the front of the car off the ground after I slid a scaffold pole over it. That took a 1" drive breaker bar, a very long tube and two of us on it...

 

Impact drivers are great.

 

http://www.esska-tech.co.uk/esska_eng_s/Industrial_Air_Impact_Wrench_5980A1_EU_Ingersoll_Rand_1_1_/_2_3390_Nm_7460_941211122900_17580.html

This would shift most things I think, but compressor power may be an issue.

[Ratdat]

I borrowed one of those fookin massive air impact wrenches once when I had to get the wheels off my old JCB to change the diff. I had to use several reducers to adapt it down to fit my airline and I'd get a burst of about 10 seconds at full whack before I had to wait for my 16cfm compressor to fill up again! It shifted them no sweat though!

[Grundig]

.... Oh it's a hub nut - I usually undo these before I take the wheel off & before I jack the vehicle up 

[MrDuke]

[FORUMKNOBBA]The fact it is a nut[/FORUMKNOBBA]

 

Step away from the tool box etc.

 

 

See thread title

[Geep]

What exactly am I missing with this bolt?

 

 

 

 

Is there something really obvious that I'm not doing (apart from the most obvious, which is chucking it into a quarry, with the rest of the van attached)?

 

I've tried various socket/BFH/impact combos to no avail whatsoever, and have spent quite a long time bouncing my arse on the end of a 600mm breaker bar. I also tried all those things in the other direction, just in case it had a LH thread.

 

Because it's recessed into the hub/disc, I can't get at it with a grinder or even a nut splitter. I'd happily buy a 2nd-hand shaft & hub, except the discs are integral and I'd therefore need a pair of shafts etc from the same van.

 

Any ideas?

 

As others have said, wheel on (or safely on axle stands) and big bar, scaffold tube on if required.

 

That nut is the wrong one for that application. That is a castle nut for use with a split pin, not a stake nut. Stake nut has thin shoulder to knock in to groove and has no gaps. It might be that it came with a replacement wheel bearing kit at some time or it might be the wrong thread and forced on.Probably done up FT in lieu of a locking device is my guess. Either way, big bar and extension first then drill as suggested if it doesn't move. New nut should be like this:

 

 

Hammer outer shoulder in to groove to lock in place.

[alf892]

decide which thread it is then get a scaffold tube over the bar. Note that the tube used for road signs are ally (older ones) and make excellent lightweight sub for scaffold tube...

 

To decide threasd direction look down on that gap in the nut and look at which way the thread rises. By this I mean focus on one thread...does it 'rise' from left to right or vice versa.

[MrDuke]

So, after a total of 2 hours, 5 drill bits and most of Roger's Profanisaurus (actually 2.5 hours if you count the time I spent filing the edges back onto my chisels) this mofo eventually gave in:

 

 

How I didn't destroy the shaft thread I don't know - I was rather losing my temper with it in the end. Incidentally, even in that state ^ I had to bounce all 16 stone of me on the breaker bar before it moved.

 

It's a weird nut though - the base is actually a seperate press-fitted piece, which I guess acts like an integral washer? Ridiculously hard stuff too - the Ti-coated HSS bits went blunt in around 20 secs, and it utterly mangled 2 cold-forged chisels.

 

Regular RH thread, though, so that's OK.

[eddyramrod]

I would never have said you were 16 stone!  What have you been eating since we met?

[tooSavvy]

^^^ Might that be a choice for 2015 Calendar 'cover page'......

 

.... well, I'm gap toothed and raggy about the periphery & I got on 

 

 

TS