405 - Feed Me

[The Moog]

The warm weather, whilst nice, has shown up that the pugs cooling fans aren't working. I went through fusebox under the steering wheel and they are all fine. The two 30amp fuses under the bonnet are ok as well.

The cooling switch has three prongs, between two of them with engine on I get 6v. if I jumper the switch in any order nothing happens. I checked the continuity and it read open to all three.

I don't know where the relay is for the fans, there are two purple ones drivers side and then I think the headlight ones (green and brown) are in the drivers side.

That is about the limit of my electrical knowledge. Any suggestions of what else I need to check or what coukd have gone wrong?

[HillmanImp]

I seem to remember blower issues here. I have not read the thread and am not sure if it is the same thing or even if it was resolved but it might help.

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/13031-moar-hot-air-questions-carlo-ruffgeezer/

 

*EDIT* You mean the radiator fans, I should learn to read? Take off the wire to the cooling fan switch on the radiator and stick a paperclip in so it is touching both bits of metal and forms a circuit. The fans should then come on if they work and the if not then the switch should be replaced I guess. Anything more than that is out the the boundaries of my experience. Or have you done that already? Christ, How much did I have to drink yesterday FFS?

[The Moog]

yep sorry cooling fans. Tried the paper clip trick but still no luck.

[carlo]

Any chance it could be a faulty fan temperature sensor?  I had the opposite problem whereby the fans were going full blast even when cold, it was the sensor which was faulty.  Sod to find as well, it's situated on the top end of the engine head buried to the right.

[dollywobbler]

If it was temp sensor, jumping the contacts should still make the fans run. So, the problem here is either a duff relay or duff fans (which seems unlikely if there are two). I'd personally get some wire and try connecting the fans direct to the battery, just to rule them out.

[The Moog]

As Dw said jumping it will bypass the sensor, but no luck. Will try fans direct to battery. I am guessing the purple relays will be the fan ones which are located in the engine bay on drivers side.

[The Moog]

Checked all the relays and they seem ok.

 

I think i might have found the issue. It is the first relay at the front. Wires corroded through and when i went to unplug it the prongs snapped.

[Lacquer Peel]

Does it have A/C?

[Bren]

My xantia had aircon that packed in - i assumed the bitron sensor had failed. It was duly replaced, still no air con, and no cooling fans.

 

One of the cooling fan motors had burnt out, and taken the wiring with it - no fuses in the circuit.

 

I had the remaining good fan wired to a switch - it cost quote a bit (£190) but restored the air con.

 

The cooling fans are very powerful - one was enough to keep things cool.

[The Moog]

No A/C so hoping that replacing the relay and sorting that bit of wiring out will fix it.

 

Seems massively complicated with a slow speed fan and a high speed fan, plus relays mounted at the front right in the way of water is a bit mental. Still it has lasted almost 20 years cant complain

[The Moog]

Visited a pug/citroen breakers nearby who basically said 405s are like hens teeth and so no bits. Then onto parts place who laughed and shrugged their shoulders. Next was main dealers who couldn't have been more helpful printing everyhing out and said try ebay. They could order the relays, £20 each although didn't have the sockets.

 

Finally found an auto supplies place out in Darwen who had generic relay and socket for £6 each. I bought 3 and will replace all three rather than messing about in future. I just need to get some wire so that I can replace the corroded stuff.

 

I am planning to buy three small tupperware boxes to mount the relays in to protect them from all the road shite. Pitcurez to follow.

[RichardMoss]

I had a fan failure on an 827 which was caused by a similar issue. Isn't it odd that 40 year old cars don't get the same sort of corrosion as these 30 year old jobs?

[Danblez]

Should be able to get the prongs out of the plug with the right set of pliers!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHOICE-OF-JEWELLERY-PLIERS-CHAIN-NOSE-ROUND-NOSE-LONG-CHAIN-NOSE-WIRE-CUTTERS-/371052443779?var=640227265619&_trksid=p2054897.l5664

[The Moog]

Might be because Peugeot in their infinite wisdom fitted the relays to almost the wettest part of the car. When I spoke to the dealers they said they still do stupid stuff like that.

 

It is just easier to replace them as they have snapped at the wire and are greener than the hulk. Should be a cheap enough fix... (he says before finding out it isn't the problem)

[The Moog]

After spending and hour swearing at the universal relay kit i have decided to buy one online that has got the socket prewired and i will solder them in.

 

Question time - the ones i looked at come with 18 awg which when googled showed it could take 7amps. Is this too thin for the earth and power wires for the relay?

 

Something like this http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/370958914167?nav=SEARCH

 

They are quite chunky beasts and i am concerned that they wont be enough

[The Moog]

Today the red light of doom came on indicating no Coolant.

 

Pain in the arse as I topped it full not that long ago, fingers crossed it isnt OMGHG as by all accounts that is a pain in the bum on these cars. More tempted to lob in forte stop leak and see how we go from there

[Timewaster]

I'm a 405 fan and I have issues.

[RichardMoss]

Today the red light of doom came on indicating no Coolant.

 

Pain in the arse as I topped it full not that long ago, fingers crossed it isnt OMGHG as by all accounts that is a pain in the bum on these cars. More tempted to lob in forte stop leak and see how we go from there

I did the HG on my BX diesel and it wasn't too much of a balls-ache

[The Moog]

Quite close to matches time now!

 

Spent all day on this. To recap none of the cooling fans worked, when i checked the relays they literally disintegrated when i pulled them apart.

 

Peugeot 405 td without A/C

 

Got a new set of relays and sockets. Taken off the old relay sockets and soldered on new ones.

 

Great except 1) some of the wires are corroded massively. They are bluey green and finding a bit that isn't has been a challenge 2) now the passenger side fan just runs constantly.

 

If i jumper the switch that sits in the rad, both fans kick in on low. If i jumper the switch the other way nothing changes and pass fan runs on full.

 

The relay the drivers side clicks but other two do nothing. Relays tested and they work off car.

 

Followed hbol wiring diagrams and it seems wired in ok.

 

Any suggestions?

[The Moog]

Decided to fit a manual switch to trigger the relay. Do i run a positive from battery to the switch then back to relay with an inline fuse or do i run the positive straight to the relay with the switch grounding it?

[The Moog]

In the end I found a perm live next to the end relay, ran a wire to switch in the cabin. Grounded it just inside the engine bay. The ran a wire back which triggers the relay to power.

 

Replaced all the front relays aand soldered them in. That was a pig to do especially when soldering iron died halfway through. Ended up using a lighter to finish the job.

 

The Chinese relays were properly shit and were always open. British ones did the job.

 

Now the switch puts both fans on low with the thermostat in the rad putting them both on high.

 

Only thing i was unsure of was whether to lob an inline fuse in. Does it need it?

 

Cost about £15 but taken all of this morning to fix. Learnt a lot as well.

[Station]

Is this my old one? I'm sorry you're having so much trouble with it, I can't remember if the cooling fan worked but it didn't overheat (it was winter though and I only had it for a month).

[The Moog]

Yep your old one. I didn't notice it until the summer arrived.

 

Don't worry, it gives me something to tinker with. I really love the car, didn't understand the 405 love until now

[Station]

It's great I do miss it, much better than the Astra I have (which is pretty good).

[The Moog]

Today I have decided to try fitting a remote central locking kit to the 405.

 

After stripping door card off I have identified the feed from the Infra Red remote and soldered in connections to that. The bit I am struggling is finding a permanent 12v.

 

Everything in the door are switched feeds. Then the wiring goes through rubber grommet and into dash. My limited electrical knowledge is starting to get tested. The feed I have got for the fan is 30amp so cant use that.

 

Any idea of where I can get a live feed that is simple to find and splice into?

[Pillock]

Cigarette lighter? Easy to test at least, just plug a phone charger in and see if the light is on all the time.

Back of the headlamp switch is also a good one on some cars since the headlamp switch is always illuminated (so you can find it in the dark).

Hazard warning switch but you're probably looking at serious amounts of taking the dashboard apart perhaps. 

 

Are there any permanent 12vs in the fuse box for equipment your car doesn't have maybe? 

[The Moog]

Hadn't thought of cigarette lighter. I still will struggle with getting wires though the door grommet

 

I looked at the fuse box but it is hard to get at and didn't want to mess too much with it.

 

I had hoped that the wiring loom in door would have at least one perm feed but all switched.

[myglaren]

Bit late to the party on this one but RS Components are a decent source of relays and other electrical and sometimes mechanical bits - we buy pneumatic modules from them, as well as microswitches.

We are lucky enough to have a trade counter a couple of miles away but they have online sales too.

Not the cheapest by any means but they can generally supply well made parts very quickly.

[The Moog]

Cool will add them to my list.

 

Got a suitably AS way to protect fuses which I will try tomorrow

[Pillock]

You should have a perm in the door if you already have central locking.... Otherwise how does the locking work without the ignition on?