Renault 6TL "Crapaud"

[Parky]

You get used to these engines quickly enough. If taking the head off to do the exhaust, do the plugs at the same time as number four is a major pain in the hoop to access in situ. It was with the R5 anyway and the layout is similar. Head looks good though and these engines are pretty tough so I would be surprised if there was anything significantly wrong with it. Although if it has been standing all that time the rubbery bits will have suffered.

 

Leboncoin could be your friend with this one. I saw a guy selling a phase 1 chrome grill which I always preferred to the phase 2 and he wanted 10 euro for it! Bargain!

 

As for the electrical issue I think it will be easy enough to sort, it must only have three or fuses I would have thought!

[michael1703]

I wouldn't have thought of the spindles!  That makes a lot of sense for where the water seems to be appearing.

Also the washer jets

 

Some have fibre washers that deteriorate, renault are a bit odd, the racks are made by an odd company something like marcella whereas all British classics share the same motors and wiper wheelhouses where you can get the seals easily

 

You could cut up a push bike inner tube, cut some circle blanks out and just make a hole tight enough so the spindle is a tight fit

[mouseflakes]

Checked out the front lights to get to the bottom of what was possible.  There is no obvious sign of a LHD/RHD switch

Someone might have answered this already - but there is often a little widget on the bulb holder on Renners of this vintage. This widget creates a small gap in the holder into which a little bump on the bulb collar fits. You take the bulb out, slide the widget to one side (so the gap it creates is shifted a few degrees around the rim of the holder) and then put the bulb back in. Basically it just rotates the bulb a bit so it throws the light up to the left instead of the right.

 

Example from an R4 here...http://autoshite.com/topic/16847-french-chod-obtained-1974-renault-5/?p=568521

 

Oh - and if your headlamp units don't have the widget you can modify them as shown by Malcolm here...http://www.renault4.co.uk/tech-headlamp-conversion.htm

[purplebargeken]

Mucho wantage still. Bloody good progress mate. Excellent stuff. 

[MikeKnight]

The push rod adjusters on the rockers are a bit odd, granted I've only worked on Triumph push rod engines before.

 

They seem to lack a slot in the top for a screwdriver, so how do you turn them to set their levels after you've slackened off the nut?

 

The workshop manual is a little odd, almost as if it were badly translated from French using Google Translate so it doesn't help.

[KruJoe]

YES to the bucket shot! (Though slightly spoilt by the Dyson upright, that can FRO. In fact all Dyson uprights are the work of the devil and need killing with fire.)

[mouseflakes]

The push rod adjusters on the rockers are a bit odd...  They seem to lack a slot in the top for a screwdriver, so how do you turn them to set their levels after you've slackened off the nut?

 

Pretty sure they have flats either side so you can use a tiny spanner on them. Or, if like me you've lost your tiny spanners, a massive pair of Mole Grips.

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

angyl see arrows on pic of a renner 16 to give you an idea of the height adjusters

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[oman5]

I may be wrong, but those headlights look remarkably similar to square mk2 transit/mk2 escort items, there was much headlight interchangeability in the 70s.

[vulgalour]

They are different to the Ford lights, that doesn't mean they won't fit if I can find a pair without OMGOSFTAX on them.

 

Could the height adjuster be this arrowed nubbin?  There's no levers or anything on the outside of the car and this is the only thing I could see inside near the headlights that looks likely.

[mouseflakes]

Not sure what that does Vulg - give it tug, why not?

After the 16 switched to plastic front grilles a lot of them had those useless lamp tilt adjusters that were just like long plastic tubes from a knob on the dash to the headlamps. supposedly you turned the knob and the lamps tilted. They always seem to be broken. I think the later 12s had them too. Maybe the plastic-grilled 6 has them? They're not showing up in that shot though, unless they're off to the left.

[vulgalour]

Today I have learned that there is left-right and up-down adjustment on the headlights.  For left-right there's a plastic nubbin that makes the bulb sit to one side or the other, suitable for continental travelling but may not be suitable for switching a LHD lamp for a UK MoT.  The up-down is a little plastic lever on the back of both bowls and both work, that's for when I'm towing or heavily laden.

 

With that learned it was time to remove the wings, to do that I needed to remove the headlight trims and since I was doing that I might as well remove the grille.  One tab for the grille screws had turned to powder, another screw had a rounded head and when I tried to drill it out I accidentally melted the plastic grille screw hole to the size of the screw head.  One of the top locater tabs for the grille also snapped, I put the piece aside safe but then it disappeared, I hope it reappears again so I can repair it.  These things happen, no matter how careful you are.

 

With the wings off I could get a look behind them.  First thing I was faced with was a fat lazy wasp under one wing and three large not-so-lazy wasps under the other.  FRIKKIN WASPS!  I was also faced with a surprisingly large amount of metal, a very small amount of surface rust and enough dirt to build a second Isle of Anglesey.

 

 

There wasn't any water ingress apparent from behind the wings except for one tiny pinhole on the passenger side which will no doubt grow once I try and fix it.  The wings are both replacements, one originally a pattern wing the other originally metallic green which matches the front door on the same side.  They're in very good salvagable condition but feel flimsier than the NOS ones I was given, I'll probably refit the ones I removed today and get the NOS ones repainted for that day I might get the whole car shiny.

 

 

More chuffin wasps!  There was another one sticking it's bum out of a trim hole in the sill on this side but I didn't photograph that.

 

Mike helped me set up the pushrods so we could give turning the engine a go.  There's some movement but not enough to crank the engine over more than a fraction of a turn.  Rather than fighting with the engine in situ we decided to remove it from the car.  When we jacked up the passenger side to help with that a whole load of fresh water came out from this point, I'm not entirely sure how it had got in but I was glad it came out.

 

Then water started coming out of the rear end, I can't figure out how the water has even got in here, it seems to be coming out through a pinhole in the rear floor that doesn't correlate to the inside of the car, and nothing above it inside the cabin was wet or even damp.  Quite a bit came out too.

 

 

To get the engine out it seemed that everything needed to come off.  The wings and 'face' had already been removed, the bonnet was next, then the radiator (and I managed to snap off a plastic pipe that had fused with the rubber pipe connected to it), then the headlight panel... before we knew what was happening there was very little front end left.

 

Didn't get any further.  Next stage is a two-man job and Mike didn't want to help any more so I went home.  We're pretty much at the stage where it's a case of getting the engine crane in, unbolting the mounts, disconnecting the drive shafts and lifting it out.  The whole engine and gearbox combo can fit in a wheelbarrow so it's easy peasy to do.  Looks like I'm going to be doing a full engine rebuild on this one, thankfully parts are cheap and plentiful for this engine.

[mouseflakes]

That really does look remarkably sound. Good stuff!

 

suitable for continental travelling but may not be suitable for switching a LHD lamp for a UK MoT.

If I recall correctly, this was sufficient to get my R4 through a test. The headlamp wasn't LHD or RHD - it served for either depending on how you positioned the the bulb doobry

[Vin]

Good work! That does look very sound ...which makes the damage done to the roof even more of a shame...

[dollywobbler]

That really does look remarkably sound. Good stuff!

 

 

If I recall correctly, this was sufficient to get my R4 through a test. The headlamp wasn't LHD or RHD - it served for either depending on how you positioned the the bulb doobry

 

This is true of 2CVs too BUT only those with round headlamps. The rectangular ones have lenses specific to circulation of traffic. Which is annoying.

[MarvinsMom]

good work!

 

i was half expecting those wings to crumble away to nothing given its age, and the wafer thin steel that renault used to use....

[vulgalour]

Eventually, I'll find a suitable headlight.  If need by I'll purchase two LHD square ones and switch both to RHD or purchase two generic round RHD lights and adjust accordingly until I can get a proper RHD square lamp.

 

I continue to be surprised at the bodywork on this car, especially when RatDat posted this picture some time ago of a much better looking earlier R6 than mine, I really expected to find something as bad as, if not worse than this when I took the wings off.

 

Likewise, my floors aren't even a little bit like this on that same car that Ratdat sorted out.

 

 

It's really incredible.  Given the vast quantities of mud inside the arches too there should be nothing left, it should look like this.

[MarvinsMom]

Likewise, my floors aren't even a little bit like this on that same car that Ratdat sorted out.

 

 

is that the optional air conditioning for one of these?

[Parky]

Here's some handy stuff:

 

http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/773352139.htm?ca=4_s

 

http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/773287391.htm?ca=4_s

 

http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/65616163.htm?ca=4_s

 

http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/700437846.htm?ca=4_s

 

And from Ebay Spain - need a headlight??

 

http://www.ebay.es/itm/Faro-delantero-Derecho-Phare-CIBIE-061699T0-Renault-6-NUEVO-/231486471763?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item35e5ab3e53

 

http://www.ebay.es/itm/JUEGO-FAROS-RENAULT-6-SEGUNDA-SERIE-/220506922867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item33573c9f73

 

http://www.ebay.es/itm/0761-NOS-JUEGO-FAROS-H-4-RENAULT-R-6-RESTYLING-/160719140876?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item256b9b780c

 

http://www.ebay.es/itm/Renault-6-faro-ducellier-front-light-/291370382974?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item43d707367e

 

Or just the glass - http://www.ebay.es/itm/2-X-Renault-R6-Cristales-Faro-T-F-/380752885192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item58a6a3f5c8

[purplebargeken]

That is a lot of headlightness. 

[vulgalour]

Update time!  Burning through the jobs on this one, it's a joyous thing to work on for the most part.  I've never worked on a car where every nut and bolt I encounter comes undone with minimal effort and no need for WD40 or Plusgas or similar.

 

The weather today has been stunning, an ideal opportunity to sort out the floors if everything is dry. The cabin was dry inside for the first time since I've known the car and given that it rained last night that means something I've done has stopped the water getting into the front.

 

One small section of the front wing rail needs a small patch letting in.

 

On examining the car today I found most of it was completely dry apart from the top of the passenger side wing rail to A-pillar juncture.  This was still really wet.  It was only when I hit it with the wire wheel revealing some perforations and saw water spurt out that I realised what was going on.  Water must have been getting in through the gutters before they were taped, running down the A pillars and pooling in this pocket, some overflowing and going down the A pillar into the footwell on the passenger side and, given the amount of water that came out, the rest reaching a point where it overflowed and came through the dashboard.  After 8 hours it was still weeping water, there must be a lot hiding in there.

 

One thing I did want to do was paint the hidden bits and some of the more serious rusty bits.  To stay true to the car's appearance I wanted to get a close match to the faded green off the shelf but not go to the trouble of getting it mixed specially to match.  I want my repairs to be visible.  I chose a satin paint so it wouldn't look too new against the rest of the car and took a chance that this exterior metal paint would be suitable.  No spray paint, this has to be brush painted.

 

After the corner had been extensively cleaned up and all perforations found I had to wait a while for it to stop leaking enough water for me to paint it.  Even then, any movement of the car made more water emerge so this will need a small retouch.  Still surprisingly solid here, I'm going to have to let some fresh metal in to stabilise things properly.

 

The other side is much better, only one perforation.  The rust here is mostly caused by the accumulation of acidic conifer sheddings which was absolutely packed into this area on both sides, without that and the gutter holes this would likely need no work beyond waterproof paint.

 

Cleaned back the bottom of the sill too.  Quite pitted but solid metal, I couldn't blow any holes through it so was happy enough to give it a top coat.

 

Then the floors, I wanted to get it done the first dry day I had and this was that.  Cleaning all the surface rust off was easy enough but not ideal a job to do inside the car, made a lot of dust.  Really surprisingly solid, there were a total of three pin holes which need a small blob of weld.  For now it's all painted to keep it solid.

 

 

Next was time to get the engine out, I hoped.  Really easy access for everything.  I removed the front valance/undertray which is also in superb condition but does need a fresh coat of paint and underseal to keep it that way.  Steering rack came out, just 5 bolts none of which put up much of a fight.

 

Mike put some sealant on the leaking rear window seal, that should stop all the water ingress into the cabin.

 

 

Got both front calipers off, and the dust shields which are still intact.  The calipers look to be in need of a refurb but don't appear to have any glaring issues.  Still a good amount of material on the discs and pads surprisingly and again all this came apart very easily.

 

That is, until it came to doing the ball joints so I could free the hub and remove the driveshafts from the gearbox.  I want to remove all the mechanical components anyway to get them cleaned and painted and any worn out parts replaced.  In the process of trying to remove the balljoints the CV boot became dislodged and leaked grease everywhere, including all over my leg and straight through my work trousers, which was nice.

 

 

Thing is, those ball joints would not budge.  I've known stubborn ball joints before but these are something else.  They broke the splitter!

 

Sod it.  I was quickly running out of daylight and patience by this point so I tidied up and called it a day.  Not bad though, a week of work on a car that's been untouched for 20 years and it's only just thrown a difficult job at me.

 

 

 

Shoved the bonnet on to protect the engine bay a bit before we shut up shop.  The inner arches smell of cow poo, an unpleasant side effect of a farm car.

 

 

[Parky]

Never known a splitter to break before! Did you soak it all in Plusgas before you abandoned it or are you going to KILL THE BALLJOINTS WITH FIRE tomorrow?

[vulgalour]

We're going to kill them with fire.  It's the only way they'll learn.

[mouseflakes]

Looks like it's (twin) Hammer Time for that ball joint.

[vulgalour]

twin hammer?

[rrsix]

I had that model ball joint splitter and it failed almost identically under not too much pressure. It's not a great design forks too far apart and thin. I'm the idiot however as I replaced it with the same one...

[mouseflakes]

twin hammer?

 

You can hold one against the joint and sharply strike the opposite side with the other. If your timing's good you can use both to strike simultaneously...

 

 

I believe the sudden blow momentarily distorts the hole that's holding the pin so breaks the contact of the 'interference fit' joint here.

[mouseflakes]

I've said it before (just one page back I think) - that 6 looks very sound. The floor is ace and I like your approach to the painted repairs.

[dieselassist]

single chisel-wedge fork- balljoint splitter/destroyer might 'undo' them balljoints , tapped on via large sledgehammer

[vulgalour]

I was using the ordinary fork types but they weren't thick enough to spit the joint.  They really are the worst ball joints I've encountered and there's four of the damnable things to remove and replace, all the boots on them are perished.