Engineering is dead.........discuss

[londonm]

I don't know what you're going on about? All the newer modern cars I've owned have gotten progressively MORE reliable engineering wise, touch wood. The car that cost me the most to keep on the road with constant breakdowns was a very low mileage 1987 VW Golf twenty years ago. I agree that cars are becoming more and more complex, with electric everything, but they are without a doubt a lot better engineered and built than they were. Do you really think a 1978 Ford Cortina 'back in the day' would be less troublesome than a 2008 Focus? I know which one I'd prefer to depend on.

[Barry Cade]

All I'm going to say here is that most of the cars I need to hook up to the back of my van, have to be hooked up to the back of my van because of things that have made it fail to proceed, that weren't fitted to cars 30 years ago. I have things in my van that could reverse the failure to proceed on old cars, but new cars need things that come from the other side of the world to enable them to move under their own steam again.

 

All new cars R shit. Economical,efficient,fast,clean and safe. But still shit.

 

 

Engineering...

 

 

 

 

 

New technology fixing problems that were satisfactorily fixed many years ago. At least they've left the wheel alone..

 

[Des]

Engineering isn't dead, but it has been zipped up in a gimp mask and shackled to a bed by marketing. A different kind of punter crawled out from the sludge about a decade since and car making became a necessary inconvenience in selling credit.

Oil wells should be running dry soon and engineering will make a comeback, as we'll all be needing big catapults and donkey powered rotating watchtowers to guard our turnips.

[Wilko220]

We're talking about engineering though not reliabilty. People demand more from their cars than they did when the volvo was around.

Remember when TV's used to last 2 generations? Now TV's last 5 years because people expect more from their equipment and are less worried about it being able to last 20 years and more about what can it do for them now.

 

The latest imac is a perfect example of this. In the old days (10 years ago) if part of your computer chucked it you replaced the processor, board, hard disc or what ever and got on with your life. Apple sussed out with the old fruity that imac people really want something that looks great and functions well, which put them on the path to the iphone, ipad etc. With the latest imac in the quest to making it look amazing they engineered a solution that basically means the computer is welded shut in the factory. All you can do is replace the memory. If the screen goes or the processor melts you need to replace it you have to frag it. Apples message is they made it 99% recyclable so when it is fragged it's all re-used. The thing looks bloody amazing and the fact they managed to cram all that stuff into such a small space is impressive engineering BUT even apple admit it reduces it's shelf life. It's just part of the demands of the modern world.

 

This is the thing that really gets to me - and it links to the other thread about the environment.

 

In an age when we keep being told to be less wasteful, it's a bloody outrage that pretty much everything is built now so that it can't be repaired with a new component. It's not even possible to change a plug on some appliances these days.

 

I don't believe that this is the case because new technology / progress demands it - I believe primarily it is done by companies like Apple (but many others aside) to maximise their profits.

[wuvvum]

New technology fixing problems that were satisfactorily fixed many years ago. At least they've left the wheel alone..

 

WTactualF???  I cannot begin to put into words how much of a cunt one would look riding that... thing... through a town centre.  If that is what is considered "engineering" these days, then I hope it dies very soon.

[wuvvum]

If you look what BMW have done with their diesel range it's pretty amazing. The 320d does 60mpg, has C02 output of less than 120 but can still do 0-60 in 7.5 seconds and has over 180bhp.

The Rover of Doom will do 60mpg and 0-60 in 8.5 seconds (I have no clue how much CO2 it pumps out, but given that the cat's been removed, probably less than 120g/km).  It cost me under £400 to buy, and if it does ever "fail to proceed", chances are even a mechanical ignoramus like myself will be able to fix it.

[dollywobbler]

Yes, but 20 years before the Rover of Doom was built, you couldn't get a family car that would get anywhere near that sort of economy. Diesels in the 1980s were generally pretty dreadful.

 

I do agree with Albert about multivalve engines though. Diesels especially seem to have suffered - what's the point in a diesel with no low down torque?!

[Timewaster]

This is the thing that really gets to me - and it links to the other thread about the environment.

 

In an age when we keep being told to be less wasteful, it's a bloody outrage that pretty much everything is built now so that it can't be repaired with a new component. It's not even possible to change a plug on some appliances these days.

 

I don't believe that this is the case because new technology / progress demands it - I believe primarily it is done by companies like Apple (but many others aside) to maximise their profits.

Exactly this!

 

There can be no justification for making every component with a replacement price in the hundreds of pounds and that needs programimg to the ECU which can only be attempted by the clueless dealer.

 

Most car companies have long since realised that is nigh on impossible to turn a profit from making cars, so they have to make money elsewhere through finance and exorbitant parts prices .

[Richard]

Yes, but 20 years before the Rover of Doom was built, you couldn't get a family car that would get anywhere near that sort of economy. Diesels in the 1980s were generally pretty dreadful.

 

And 20 years after it (nearly) you can't get a family car with significantly better economy.

[Barry Cade]

Yes, but 20 years before the Rover of Doom was built, you couldn't get a family car that would get anywhere near that sort of economy. Diesels in the 1980s were generally pretty dreadful.

 

I do agree with Albert about multivalve engines though. Diesels especially seem to have suffered - what's the point in a diesel with no low down torque?!

Hmmm, my '80's 190D averaged 46.6 MPG over 5000 miles,all on a green fuel which isn't going to run out. Also when warm, didn't sound like I'd left a 32mm spanner in my pocket when the wife did the weekly washing. That was real life MPG and not some brochure figure that is unattainable in real life. My sisters 2012 Focus Diesel does 44.3, according to itself, sounds like it's broken , is horrible to drive and very easy to stall.

[Junkman]

Hmmm, I had a 1958 180D that had 487000 miles on the tally and still the first engine and gearbox (ex-Munich taxi). We took it to a trip to Corsica in 1984 (six people and luggage) and averaged 38 mpg. Mind you, this included crossing the Alps twice and a lot of cruisage in Corsica. The cigarette lighter still worked, too.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

If you look what BMW have done with their diesel range it's pretty amazing. The 320d does 60mpg, has C02 output of less than 120 but can still do 0-60 in 7.5 seconds and has over 180bhp.

.

It's also horribly complex, not very reliable and will be unfixable scrap in 10 years. The E46 version was bad enough.

Modern cars are amazingly efficient and have the quality and longevity of a 50p biro. In no way are they made to last. Sorry, but I'll trade 10 mpg and some rip roaring mph for solid engineering - Peugeot XUD, Perkins Prima or BMW M51 to name but three.

[ChinaTom]

Does this include the engineering that goes on in producing the vehicles? If so, you will probably find some compromises in your aspirations of the development curve of the vehicle itself staying at the same angle since the 60's. A lot of effort goes into getting stuff made, and this quite often takes priority over what is being made.

[Albert Ross]

I'm going to mention Deltic. Those of you who know, will understand. Others, Google.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Googled and duly appreciated. No plastic manifolds and 40p sensors on that bastard.

[John F]

Possibly something to do with trains, but meh... cba googling it

[Rocket88]

So, in summary, do we conclude that engineering is not dead, it's just been herded into the cul de sac marked "great whilst it lasts, but woe betide you when it goes phut"?

On olde shite, if you had a problem deep in the bowels of the suck squeeze bang blow department, you had half a chance of "driving round it" .

Now, almost no chance.

[wuvvum]

The Deltic was a completely mad design, but having heard a pair of them at full chat in a hard-working Class... erm... 55 I think?, I love 'em just for the noise they make.

[tooSavvy]

The Deltic was a completely mad design, but having heard a pair of them at full chat in a hard-working Class... erm... 55 I think?, I love 'em just for the noise they make.

Clag + Utoob = OhhhArrrrrr

 

tooSavvy