Main Dealers

[Bren]

I was flicking through this months edition of car mechanics, their main in trade, Steven Ward, wrote a piece about main dealers - namely that some of them are farming routine work out to small one man band type operations who by the sounds of it should only be working in vehicle dismantlers. The poor punter is then charged top dollar for main dealer rates and OE parts.

 

I know that a lot of dealers no longer have body shops, welding equipment and specialist diagnostic equipment so do sub contract work, however this is a tad naughty if it is simply servicing and repairs.

[Wilko220]

I'm pretty sure he's registered on here.

[crapcarcollector]

Yes they do, and it's becoming more common where I am. We've had work from three different dealers, whom either lack the the expertise (!), kit, or don't want to get involved in owt above servicing and MOT work.

 

As a fully fledged two man band established for over a decade with proper diagnostic kit, we have seen a tangible decline in the quality of main dealer technicians, or asI call them, fitters. Some of them couldn't diagnose their own headache.

 

It's naughty. We do the work at trade rates, they hoodwink the customer, but what do you do? Work is work.

[ruffgeezer]

Main dealers are a bunch of fucking shysters anyway, we get loads of old dealer stock in to sell at work, and I'm constantly reminded of how many people get fleeced by the "main dealer" quality servicing.

 

We see mostly 3 or 4 year old cars that have only ever seen main dealer's workshops, what this basically means is that if it's fitted with an under tray, we will have to spend an hour cutting the bolts off as they will either have never been removed, or have never been shown any grease.

 

If the car has alloy wheels they will require a large hammer to remove them as if the brakes look "ok" they too will have never been off of the car, I can't imagine how well this goes down when the owner gets a puncture and the wheel won't come off or fit back on at the roadside!

 

Which takes me nicely to the brakes, we almost always (unless it's a really low mileage car) have to hammer and punch the pads out, they will be seized solid in the carriers, which we have to remove and die grind back into shape.

 

"Always main dealer serviced"? Pah, it's just a pretty way of saying the oil is clean but no cunt's been near it.

[Albert Ross]

That's not all strictly true though is it. I have worked for a Main Dealer for 10 years, and am Quality Controller on the MOT side of things. I run a tight ship. If a specific service schedule as givern by the manufacturer stipulates to remove only the front wheels, then we do only the fronts. The reason being, that we are timed, and also, if we do remove the rear wheels, and something gets damaged, we are not authorised to do that action. Some schedule specifcally omit certain operations dependent on mileage, fleet or retail customers, and season. Yes, it's all down to cost. Undertrays do not normally get removed unless there is a fault present that requires it removing. There are hinged flaps on most vehicles that have full undertrays. Brake pads being stuck in the caliper? Well unless a customer advises us in advance that brakes are noisy, or pulling to one side, the pads stay put. There is no schedule for removing the calipers and pads to inspect them. Normally, if a vehicle has an MOT on site, our rollers are sensitive enough to detect any imbalance.

We do occasionally farm certain jobs out... the most recent being a timing belt on a V6 Audi. I think that's a sensible move, as it's gone to a local engine reconditioning specialist that has all the special tools required, and this is only because the local VAG specialist cannot fit it in until AFTER the car is being picked up (Sales vehicle)

 

The reason you guys get the shitty reject cars is just that. We have strict policies for sales vehicles. They are inspected for suitability prior to going on the forecourt. Anything not up to standard is auctioned off. We never sell anything to smaller traders, it's a blanket Auction policy. Staf, however, have limited chance to buy vehicles in this pool. One I missed was a twin wiper Toyota Estate (Carina?) some years ago... I did bag a G plate Sierra Sapphire for £70, and a few years before then, an E plate Sierra 2.0i Ghia hatch for £100. A DIscovery for £200? Yup. All of these were in my possession for a goodly while afterwards, unitl broken up or sold on for minor profit.

 

Why would a main dealer NOT want one of the cars it supplied new, with a full book of stamps? You don't see those because they stay within the dealer network, just last week I tested and serviced one of my favourite cars. A W plated Astra 1.6 16V Club hatch. Not even 50k miles, Auto, Deep metallic red, Black velour trim. (Special Factory order) and one owner since new. They are a lovely couple, and also have a W plated Saab, Turbo Petrol. It is also immaculate. I am waiting for that to come up for sale.... they know I want it.

[Rusty_Rocket]

I really hope the majority of main dealer quality controllers are like you, Albert.

My experiences have been a little less positive. As a young 'un attending college doing my motor engineering qualification, I had to do a months' work experience in two main dealerships.

First was a large Peugeot outfit, the second Renault. Even as an inexperienced lad, I can remember things that were skipped. At Peugeot, a rusty/ rounded screw holding an air filter casing would be reason enough to 'forget' to change an air filter. Likewise, I can remember the tech at Renault giving up on an oil filter that was too tight to remove by hand stating that 'it'll probably get done next time anyway'!!

Admittedly, this was 15 years ago, I hope things have moved on.

But maybe not?

Only last year my father took his (2-year old) Nissan to a main dealer for its service. He was advised that both CV gaiters were in need of replacement after 20k miles, at considerable cost to him, the warranty apparently wouldn't cover it. I advised him to bring it to me so I could check it. I think you can guess the rest, the gaiters were pefect and untouched, as you'd expect for a low mileage car and still are now. I do his servicing and repairs now.

[Cavcraft]

ALL MAIN DEALERS ARE SHIT ETC.

 

 

Plenty of them didn't have body shops by the way as they're expensive to set up and maintain so it's probably easier to farm the work out.

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure he's registered on here.

 

I doubt it.

[Albert Ross]

Ref: Service replacement items that are unserviceable, I will always advise on my report if an air filter box cover screw is too corroded to remove etc, and the customer is made aware of the situation, and if possible shown into the workshop to inspect their vehicle for proof. We have a policy of absolute clarity for the customer. We have all departments on site, including an "award winning" bodyshop. What awards, I have no idea..... Between us mechanics (I HATE the Tec.. word) we have tools to sort most issues. I have mostly suspension and steering stuff, and because I use, drive and prefer older stuff, I get all the "Classics" and rarities. I prefer it that way, we are on almost first name terms with most customers, and Christmas cards get exchanged, we see tham in shops and stop and chat, that kind of thing. We are a large Dealership, and have branches countrywide, but try to keep the personal service alive. I am the one that is wheeled in front of prospective buyers to explain why the Kia Carens Diesel they are looking at feels different to their 20 year old petrol Fiesta....... Yes, I look a bloody mess, but that's how mechanics look isn't it?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Audi have been really sneaky, and the inspection service (around 150 quid) does NOT include an oil and filter change anymore. Oh no, that's a lubrication service. So basically, you're paying an Audi dealer 150 sheets for fuck all.

 

I wouldn't go near a main dealer now. Most are owned by big chains (Arnold Clark, Pendragon, Vardy etc etc) and they are operating on a maximum profit basis to please sharesholders. Any garage that doesn't take all four wheels off during a service and clean up the brakes is not doing a proper job, simple as that. I don't want the car washed and hoovered, I want the expensive calipers unbolted and the pads and sliders cleaned up and a bit of copper grease. Servicing is about maintaining the car and preventing future problems.

I've serviced two BMW's recently, a 2002 car and one from 1998 with FBMWMDSH. Both were still on the original fuel filters and all four alloys were virtually welded onto the hubs on the 2002 car - the last time it had brake pads was in 2005. Main dealers? I shit 'em.

[Rocket88]

I'm involved with an independant VAG specialist over here, recently had a 2005 RS6 in for a service. In 6 visits to the local main dealer, [46k miles] there were 3 ticks in the "brake fluid changed" box. The rear brake nipples had never been undone.........

[meggersdog]

Everyone has their own main dealer horror stories, the motor trade is the same as any other trade in that respect.

Many years ago when I worked in a local village garage we gained a new customer due to the Ford dealers accident.Apparantly this chap took his Sierra into TCHarrison's for a new clutch.They have a rapid fit centre at the side of the main garage and he'd always had the car serviced there so booked it in.When it was all back together the tailshaft housing mysteriously developed a massive crack causing an oil leak.They admitted to dropping the 'box but still forced him to pay for the repair (somehow).

Another would be my mate's Discovery 2 air suspension packing up only a month after a major service.The compressor had siezed due to it,the filter and the water trap being full of water.The car had full main dealer history yet it looked like the water trap had never been drained.

[fiatdaft]

Neither they should be if the main dealer was doing a brake fluid change.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Neither they should be if the main dealer was doing a brake fluid change.

 

Then how do you get the old fluid from the rear calipers?

[Ben_L]

I'll put a positive spin on this and say that Murketts Vauxhall in Great Shelford, Cambridgeshire have always done a good job on my old Cavalier. They keep the old parts for me, point things out on the Vehicle Health Check when the vehicle is at the front of the dealership and regularly beat local garage quotes to keep my business AND furnish me with a car whilst my car was being repaired.

 

The worst thing about getting rid of the Cavalier, was that I now recently had to deal with EMG Ford in Ely and I'm dreading Honda in Soham!!!!

[Albert Ross]

My Red Land Rover was supplied new by Murketts of Huntington (sic) in December 1970. I wonder if anyone working there still actually remembers it?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I'll put a positive spin on this and say that Murketts Vauxhall in Great Shelford, Cambridgeshire have always done a good job on my old Cavalier. They keep the old parts for me, point things out on the Vehicle Health Check when the vehicle is at the front of the dealership and regularly beat local garage quotes to keep my business AND furnish me with a car whilst my car was being repaired.

 

The worst thing about getting rid of the Cavalier, was that I now recently had to deal with EMG Ford in Ely and I'm dreading Honda in Soham!!!!

 

There used to be a few dealers like that. Back in the 1990's there was a Vaux dealer in Bicester called Jubilee Garage. They were great, excellent parts dept and they'd press wheelbearings out of hubs and press newe ones in for a fiver cash in hand. These were the days of small dealerships where no bugger ever left and so you'd know everyone and get favours such as above.

 

Murketts also has had two BMW dealerhips for around 35 years. I have a feeling the Vauxhall one used to be BMW until a few years ago.

[Rocket88]

Neither they should be if the main dealer was doing a brake fluid change.

 

Then how do you get the old fluid from the rear calipers?

 

Quite....................the uninformed talking bollocks. You cannot [and I don't care how much fancy kit you've got] do a proper brake fluid change without a thorough bleed.Sucking the stuff out of the resevoir, and topping up is NOT a brake fluid change.................................

[fiatdaft]

Hey keyboard warrior If its good enough for the companies that make the braking systems and the machines that do the brake fluid exchange .

 

 

22 years in the trade next month , so i don't know how informed you need to be?

[garethj]

Hey keyboard warrior If its good enough for the companies that make the braking systems and the machines that do the brake fluid exchange .

Yes, but the "good enough" part is up for debate. Yes, it'll be good enough to see out the manufacturer's warranty and it's much quicker to do. If those are your requirements then great.

 

If "good enough" means you want to get things apart 10 years after the car was built then changing brake fluid that way might not cut it. In my experience, it's been a long time since ease of service a decade away has been important to car manufacturers. And the pressure on main dealers to hit their repair times is huge, no surprise where their emphasis lies. See NHS / teaching targets for more details on why measuring this stuff isn't always the answer.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Hey keyboard warrior If its good enough for the companies that make the braking systems and the machines that do the brake fluid exchange .

 

 

22 years in the trade next month , so i don't know how informed you need to be?

 

Then explain how you remove brake fluid from a sealed circuit? To remove fluid from a pipe, the other end needs to draw in air or more fluid - basic physics!

 

I have seen Bosch brake fluid machines do their job, and it has a pipe going to each bleed nipple.

 

In fact, here it is complete with instructions:

 

http://www.boschdiagnostics.com/dsoftwa ... 183800.pdf

 

Note the bit that says:

 

"Raise vehicle to comfortable level to access the brake bleeder

valves. Use caution to not disconnect power cable from

battery or put strain on the Fill Hose connected to the Master

Cylinder.

Connect a Bleeder Hose to each brake bleeder valve. Match

colors on Bleeder Hoses to the control panel graphic.

Press FLUSH. "

 

If however your garage doesn't use the Bosch machine, please tell us which machine it is..?

[fiatdaft]

Ah yes bosch only make these machines and braking systems to be just good enough

 

You do know certain vehicles cannot be bled from the calipers without going on 'fancy kit' either huh?

[fiatdaft]

Thats to bleed not to exchange.

[Rocket88]

Thats to bleed not to exchange.

 

So I suppose that seized in brake nipples in the calipers because no-one has undone them for eleventy years is good engineering practice then?

I presume that "brake bleeder valves" are the same as brake bleeding nipples, and still have to be undone. We manage quite well with either a vacuum, or pressure bleed system, WHEN WE CAN UNDO THE EFFING NIPPLES!]

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Ah yes bosch only make these machines and braking systems to be just good enough

 

You do know certain vehicles cannot be bled from the calipers without going on 'fancy kit' either huh?

 

Please - elaborate!

 

Which machine does your garage use?

And what are these 'certain vehicles'?

[Rocket88]

Mr Bluejeans.........I may be being stupid, but surely using his bit of kit still means you have to undo the bloody nipples?

[fiatdaft]

Not to exchange,but you already knew that eh.Anyway before this gets into another stupid autoshite argument,go do some reaserch.

[Rocket88]

I refer you to page 6 of your PDF. Open ALL bleeder valves...................so how come the two rear ones I alluded to earlier have obviously NEVER been opened, on a nine year old car?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Not to exchange,but you already knew that eh.Anyway before this gets into another stupid autoshite argument,go do some reaserch.

 

Or even better, back up your own bold claims. I.e, what machine does your garage use? If you can't answer that, you're clearly either bullshitting or don't have a clue what you're on about. You're already trying to divert away from your own nonsense, an argument that you started with an outlandish claim.

Bleed or exchange, the only correct way is to open all four bleed nipples to purge all the old fluid. You know it, I know it, and so does Bob Bosch!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Mr Bluejeans.........I may be being stupid, but surely using his bit of kit still means you have to undo the bloody nipples?

 

Yes.