Peugeot 505 Gti Estate

[nigel bickle]

I had an interesting 'problem' occur this weekend. Some may recall I bought a 505 Estate a few months back -as towcar replacement for the Legnum which I doubted would do the distance. (It didnt -the wiring exploded whilst collecting the Bellel.)

 

 

Anyway this w/end I felt well enough to haul it home in prep for its first MOT. It has been well checked over --by me & a few friends, obv fails recified, but no serious issues found. (it has been laid up many years). I knew it A framed fine,as I had hauled it 200 miles from Norfolk, through London, without issue last Autumn.

 

However, just 1 mile into the homeward trip, the rear started swaying, & before I could stop -the rear wheel fell off (and vanished). Exciting.

I assumed that the wheel nuts had been left loose, so set about removing the D shaped drum, shoes etc, refitting the studs and borrowing nuts from the other wheels. A pain -but no real issue -EXCEPT that the wheel didnt seem to want to turn -despite all the brakes now being in the rear footwell. When I fitted a spare wheel (thankfully I had 2 extra) the wheel would turn ,but irregularily, and felt all wrong. Roadside diagnosis being difficult, I elected to return to store, and found the the wheel nuts were loosening off, very 500 yards!

 

I would stop -tighten them as hard as I could yet within 500 yards they were on the verge of falling off again. This was repeated the whole way back , where it got pushed into a corner -and left.

 

So, my question is:- wheel bearing? lsd (does it have one?) or any other good ideas before i pull the whole axle out for a look see?

[Rocket88]

Wrong nuts? Similar happened to me when I bought a car on alloys that had been fitted with nuts suitable for steels

[Jon]

I'm sure you're fully aware Nigel that wheels for 504s and 505s are virtually unique to the models due to a weird pcd, hence why my S1 GTI looks like this:

 

 

I've got a couple of wheel nuts knocking about in the boot, so can bosh a picture up if you'd like to see if they look vastly different to yours?

[Skizzer]

Bloody hellfire . I've got no useful suggestions Nigel, but

the rear started swaying, & before I could stop -the rear wheel fell off (and vanished)

must indeed have been exciting...

[nigel bickle]

Correct nuts, 4 x140 pcd. Know all that -but thanks.

 

I wouldnt have put it up here if it was obvious too me. Its got 6 different people scratching their heads..

[Rocket88]

So, basically the nuts were undoing themselves within minutes of being zealously tightened?......................weird.

[simmo]

If it possible that with the drum removed the wheel nuts are tightening against the wheel at the same time that they are running out of thead so that the nuts feel tight but aren't actually that tight against the wheel? Also with the drum missing could the wheel be not able to fit flat against the hub because the wheel centre is against the half shaft or what have you? Wouldn't explain the original wheel detachment though.

[garethj]

Sounds like the threads are worn. With the wheel off, does the nut wobble on its stud or have any axial movement?

 

I've had something similar in the past and a new set of wheel studs and nuts was the only way to fix it

[Rocket88]

Sounds like the threads are worn. With the wheel off, does the nut wobble on its stud or have any axial movement?

 

I've had something similar in the past and a new set of wheel studs and nuts was the only way to fix it

 

Only explanation that makes sense.............

[nigel bickle]

Nope, sadly.

 

Threads were fine -even rusty from lack of usage. Nuts too -and the replacements came off other, non problematic wheels. The missing drum (which is half ground away) doesnt make a difference. I was tightening them beyond sensible limits (kinda fed up) yet the wheel was wobbling within 400 yards, virtually off by the time I stopped.

 

I'll be up there briefly this pm. I think its an axle stand & run up jobbie -see whats happening when its stuck into gear.

 

Glad its not just me cant fathom it. Weird.

[Rocket88]

Are the nuts loose, or is the whole hub mechanism trying to escape........Old Beemers are not unknown for this, it's usually worn halfshafts

[ruffgeezer]

Is this one from Alan's collection? If so I know he had a herd of pikies robbing wheels off of everything, it is possible that they might have damaged the threads perhaps?

[nigel bickle]

Nuts are loose -hub seems fine.

 

Yes RF -good spot. It got A framed to the south coast without any issues at all, even going thorugh central London, so this is just damn weird.

 

Didnt get itme today -other than to move it out of the wya to get another prospect out ,so it'll geti nvestigated Saturday.

 

Got me beat.

[Six-cylinder]

Talking of wheels for a Peugeot 505/504 I am short of a spare wheel for my 504 Cabriolet. Does anybody have a rim or rim and tyre 195 60 R15 88v I can buy, as per the picture?

 

After 4 years of non running ownership I am hoping this summer will see the return to the road of my 504 Cab, so far it’s had a new fuel pump to make it run again, a new rear deck panel made, a bare metal respray and with a friends help we are just fitting it up now. Still to do is a new hood, part retrim (mouse damage), new exhaust, sort out sticking brake callipers, MOT and then the odds and sods like I can’t make the parking lights work or the electric windows.

 

P1220833.jpg broad by the_cvsmith, on Flickr

[Barry Cade]

Do the alloys have steel inserts where the bolts go through? Does the hub run straight and true, a buckled hub (usually on RWD cars which have been "drifted" into a kerb) can have a bend on them which causes the wheel to wobble and loosen bolts. This is an odd one!

[wackywacerwill]

If it was all good whilst on the frame but the bad happens under load it could be an axle issue no? Out of balance/bent/busted something or other. I can't think of anything else if it ain't been messed with since the A frame journey

[panhard65]

Talking of wheels for a Peugeot 505/504 I am short of a spare wheel for my 504 Cabriolet. Does anybody have a rim or rim and tyre 195 60 R15 88v I can buy, as per the picture?

 

After 4 years of non running ownership I am hoping this summer will see the return to the road of my 504 Cab, so far it’s had a new fuel pump to make it run again, a new rear deck panel made, a bare metal respray and with a friends help we are just fitting it up now. Still to do is a new hood, part retrim (mouse damage), new exhaust, sort out sticking brake callipers, MOT and then the odds and sods like I can’t make the parking lights work or the electric windows.

 

Hi sorry to hijack Nigels thread but do you need a pair of rear calipers for a 504 cabriolet as I have a pair of re-con ones sitting in a box at work that I bought when I had my coupe. No wheels sorry and that is a weird problem you have there Nigel I had a wheel come off my discovery a few years ago. The pikey's had tried to pinch them I had driven it 400 m iles and thought it felt a bit funny then 1/4 mile from home lost it on a bend. Took a while to find the wheel but at least it didn't hit anyone

[nigel bickle]

Cant find the wheel Martin! Hunted the length of the road 3 times- vanished.

 

They arent bolts- they're nuts on studs. No steel/alloy interface.

 

I kinda hoped someone would come up with that 'obvious blinder' that I as a total muppet -had missed.

 

Hasnt happened so I'll just update when I get to the bottom of it.

 

Thanks for everyones thoughts -its got us beat.

[dieselnutjob]

There are two types of wheel nuts, one for alloys and one for steel. Also there are two diameters of thread. I think that 505s had thicker studs than 504s and early 604s, or something.

[simmo]

It was a while ago now but I thought even with the steel wheels the estates had a heavier duty rim and different wheel nuts.

[Six-cylinder]

Talking of wheels for a Peugeot 505/504 I am short of a spare wheel for my 504 Cabriolet. Does anybody have a rim or rim and tyre 195 60 R15 88v I can buy, as per the picture?

 

After 4 years of non running ownership I am hoping this summer will see the return to the road of my 504 Cab, so far it’s had a new fuel pump to make it run again, a new rear deck panel made, a bare metal respray and with a friends help we are just fitting it up now. Still to do is a new hood, part retrim (mouse damage), new exhaust, sort out sticking brake callipers, MOT and then the odds and sods like I can’t make the parking lights work or the electric windows.

 

Hi sorry to hijack Nigels thread but do you need a pair of rear calipers for a 504 cabriolet as I have a pair of re-con ones sitting in a box at work that I bought when I had my coupe. No wheels sorry and that is a weird problem you have there Nigel I had a wheel come off my discovery a few years ago. The pikey's had tried to pinch them I had driven it 400 m iles and thought it felt a bit funny then 1/4 mile from home lost it on a bend. Took a while to find the wheel but at least it didn't hit anyone

Yes sorry to hijack this thread but the talk of Peugeot wheels got me excited about finishing my car. I’m interested in the rear callipers and have pm Panhard 65

[red5]

Are the wheels spigot mounted?

 

Sam

[simmo]

Did you fix it Nigel? We need closure

[nigel bickle]

Its potentially too big a job for me to take on right now (health wise). To even 'diagnose', I've effectively got to immobilse it -which could be an issue at its current location.

 

Additionally its too damn cold to work outside. I'll get ot it shortly - but it has everyone perplexed.

[simmo]

Sorry I didn't know you were having a health problem; hope you are on the mend.

[nigel bickle]

Ok- so Sunday afternoon the strip/diagnosis started (somewhat aggravated by spinning studs- seems all the splines had stripped in the halfshaft); that was a couple of hours fun!

 

Here's a couple of pics for your delectation:-

 

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And heres a pic of the stud & wheel nut - for all those trying to tell me that the combo is wrong:-

 

 

They're original, correct fitment for the alloys on the car.

 

Running the car up (in gear) offers up a plethora of strange sounds emanting from the entire axle! Initially believing it to be an LSD axle, I realised it cant be if I can spin one wheel, the other remaining still! Correct me if I'm wrong -but shouldnt a 505 Gti estate be lsd -implying a swop out sometime in the distant past (no signs of 'recent' modification)?

 

Diff noise -a constant drone may be shortage of oil -although there are no sign of any leaks -its all bone dry (except for exploding brakes!)

 

However, the halfshaft ''may'' be moving up & down slightly whilst spinning -say 1mm? Without accurate measuring tools its difficult to tell, but resting a screwdriver against it, certainly felt so.

No discernable movement in the halfshaft - when stationary, so initial thoughts are that but the bearing may be suspect. If I can find the manual (to tell me how!) I'll haul out the shaft, change the bearing & get it checked for true.

 

There's def a problem -whether I need to bin the axle & trace a replacement, or sort & repair ,is still ''up in the air''.

 

Thoughts/ views/ the bleeding obvious - all very welcome!

[simmo]

If you can access it alright I would give it the screw driver to the ear test on the halfshaft bearings and final drive unit. Also I think the estates, due to having a live axle, have a UJ/CVJ on the end of the tranny and also a torque tube centre bearing/guide. Any noise from the centre bearing is applified by the torque casing but the screw driver test should be able to eliminate this. My experience here is mainly from 504 estates so may not be 100% on 505s.

[wackywacerwill]

Now this is the bleeding obvious though the like of which is often over looked (or is it just me?)

Spinning studs, cause or effect? Or just a unconnected PITA

[ruffgeezer]

It is entirely possible that the studs are erroded alongside bonky wheel nut threads, added to by the studs spinning in the hub, bin the studs off whilst it is easy to do so.

[nigel bickle]

I had to cut 3 of the nuts & studs off. The one shown is the last remaining.

 

Wasnt the cause.