Probably not worth reading this - as you were...

[Mr Lobster]

I'm struggling to get worked up over this as there does seem to be a lot of OMG PANIC around the internet because of this.

 

But I'm wondering - IF a car is classified as Historic at 30 years old and hence got free tax and no MOTs for life and henceforth no further official inspection what would stop the owner then modifying it as long at it wasn't anything too obvious from the outside.

 

I have a feeling thats what 'Oldbus' (possibly wrong name) on the blue forum did with a Capri he was restoring a year or two back in Germany - rebuilt it to original spec, got historic plates and then modified it a bit?

[barefoot]

...caravan and trailer testing.

 

There's no reason why home-built trailers should be outlawed ...

 

Home built trailers will not become illegal as far as I am aware but I am currently investigating mass producing a trailer & there are many, many hoops through which I must jump.

Amongst other things any trailer sold from this October will need a 17 digit VIN on a plate screwed on in a specified place.

I have the guidelines from VOSA, but its a 60 odd page pdf, I'll e-mail it to folk if they care enough.

[warren t claim]

Post deleted.

[Guest]

Hoorah! Godwin Rules OK! Pass the Barf Bucket!

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I admit I find the hysteria surrounding this all a bit baffling. I’ve just attempted to read about it on Piston Heads, but PH has descended into the usual full-on UKIP ‘specialness’ and I only managed a few pages. And yes, someone did mention abnormal curvature in a certain fruit: I wonder sometimes if doom laden rumours like this are started by UKIP activists.

[Guest]

I think that the paranoia is influenced partly by some car club obsessives who think that obtaining "historic" status is some sort of Holy Grail; partly by UKIP style Eurogrumpiness, and partly by the strange pessimism that affects so many people. The Daily Mail would go out of business were it not for a readership which wishes to be scared and angry most of the time.

 

Anyway, here's my take on the situation:-

 

The draft Regulation is mainly about an EU minimum standard for roadworthiness testing.

 

It is not mainly about modifications, or classic cars.

 

The draft regulation will not prevent all modifications.

 

It will regulate modifications which affect safety or environmental characteristics.

 

It will allow for testing of modifications.

 

It will create a new and limited category of historic vehicles, which will not require testing.

 

Many or even most classic cars will need testing, but will be tested by the standards applicable when they were new. (Note that "historic" and "classic" are not legal terms at present, save that historic has a limited meaning in the UK for road tax purposes).

 

There remains uncertainty because parts of the draft Regulation and Annexes are ambiguous, and some local rules will be in place in any event.

 

There is reportedly no budget to implement this, so large scale changes appear unlikely.

 

There may be hassle for trailer and caravan users.

 

The draft Regulation is in many ways poorly drafted, but it is not Armageddon.

 

NB: These are my opinions. and I may be wrong, but I add that I am a practising barrister with over two decades experience, including extensive experience in EU law.

[messerschmitt owner]

want to see why you won't get anywhere with all this stuff

 

I'm going to show you in two pictures!

 

 

 

 

Sorry, you've lost!

 

This may have been a jolly jape but it 100% explains why the EU wants rid of modded cars!

 

Dangerous, stupid, idiotic!

[chaseracer]

Don't think Kev's going to keep it that way, Campbell!

 

In other news (apperlogeys if this is a pearoast), the bearded ones have weighed in - http://fbhvc.co.uk/2012/08/23/eu-roadwo ... s-testing/ The irony is strong in this one...

[messerschmitt owner]

Don't think Kev's going to keep it that way, Campbell!

 

In other news (apperlogeys if this is a pearoast), the bearded ones have weighed in - http://fbhvc.co.uk/2012/08/23/eu-roadwo ... s-testing/ The irony is strong in this one...

the point is, that's what the general public see of modding - that, and Barry Boy at 3 am with his loud exhaust (and remember, I've a heavily modded car (engine and performance wise) at home).

 

So, would the general public support it - let's face it, if we lost the angle grinding of springs and stupid suspension set ups/banded and stretched tyres, etc., most of us here wouldn't care.

[chaseracer]

...informed & considered opinion (m'lud) ...

Useful summary - thanks for that, BV

[ashmicro]

I think that it would be good if the Govt passed legislation making the fitting of indicators to Audis and BMWs compulsory.

 

You would have thought that these expensive German cars would already have them installed.

[Mash]

I think that it would be good if the Govt passed legislation making the fitting of indicators to Audis and BMWs compulsory.

 

You would have thought that these expensive German cars would already have them installed.

 

And removing the powerful magnets from behind the front bumpers.

[barefoot]

I think that it would be good if the Govt passed legislation making the fitting of indicators to Audis and BMWs compulsory.

 

You would have thought that these expensive German cars would already have them installed.

 

I am led to believe that they are a 'delete option', like badges & fag lighters.

[pbottomley]

You know this forum has unlike a lot of others, and taken a calm approach to the press release put out by ACE and that's good.

 

Yes there are masses of unanswered questions and lots of views on how things could be seen. But the reason ACE put "Armageddon" out there was because of the overtly loose detail and frankly all embracing nature of the proposals. It could be used to penalise owners by less that honest political groups being lobbied by those who stand to gain a buck or two on the way a specific part of the act falls. (think protectionism of industry and not rights as a EU citizen). There are lots of winners out of this and you as a car owner are not even last in that queue, your there to be exploited and used not served and looked after.

 

ACE know this is not the end game with the EU, even if we (royal we) did manage to get this proposal a stay of execution it will come back and bite us all again at a later date wrapped up in yet another long winded Directive slipped in at the last minute. But what ACE wanted to do was make people aware of just how your rights to drive your car within the legal boundaries of UK law is being threatened.

 

A lot of fools on other forums seem to think ACE should drive over to the EU and wave some sort of flag as the eurocrates on behalf of all the keyboard jockeys of this world, alas ACE is not that sort of group, its primary function is one of following legislation developments and getting that information out to people its going to affect. We are a group of 18 people giving our evenings away reading endless papers from Dft, DVLA, VOSA, EU and other such faceless bodies and letting others know what's on the table so that you (the royal you) might decide to do something about it.

 

Its your right to sit as one's keyboard and hark on about the so called full stops here and the commas there,(not saying you have !) but all I would urge people to do is look at it holistically and wonder why now, whose gaining from this, is it fare and if we could stop it now what could you do to protect yourself in the future?

 

I stood up 2 years ago and started to help ACE with the best skills I could offer (website etc) and have have had bugger all back from it other than knowing folks are now thinking, and if all it achieves is that, folks now think about how our overlords need a spank than that's a start.

[Guest]

I think that all that ACE has achieved is to spread confusion and rumour. A sensible appraisal of the proposal would have been much more useful. No one listened to Chicken Licken, or to the boy who cried wolf.

[Negative Creep]

The EU in general is a pretty scary organisation, which seemingly has a goal of one state, one currancy, and constant monitoring of its citizens. Now I do take this with a rather large pinch of salt, but I do remember reading how after the fall of the Iron Curtain a lot of former Communists and Socialist have switched to the Euro friendly and Green movements, trying to achieve their goals through somewhat more subtle means. It's not a massive leap of faith to see how this could be one of the steps towards GPS road pricing, and knowing where you are at all times.

 

Perhaps that's far fetched, but just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you........

[Guest]

The EU is Statist, and undemocratic, but also very Capitalist. Most of its efforts are still directed towards unified markets for goods and services. Most of the Commission's workload involves enforcement of competition in business. The former Soviet states have embraced the EU because it supports free market economies, offers subsidies, and promises the opportunity to catch up with west European standards of living.

 

The agenda here is road safety and the environment. The drafting is poor, but it's not, I think, a grand plot to rob us of our precious bodily fluids [/Dr Strangelove]

[Spiny Norman]

Doesn't something like this crop up every couple of years or so, and everyone runs around with their trousers on fire making comments like "Oh noes, my 1952 Austin Westminster isn't on its original brake linings - de evil gubmint is going to make me scrap it" ... and fuck all ever really changes?

I'd never heard of that website before, now I have. Maybe that was the plan all along?

[Guest]

Tru dat, but some of the pipe smokers do love to have a ranty.

 

There is, by the way, already an EU roadworthiness testing Directive. It has not led to everyone being killed by Nazis, or at least not so as I'd noticed.

[CreepingJesus]

Much earlier in the thread, Catsinthewelder mentioned the MAG etc., fight against the DRL issue. Only a few years before, we were in it much deeper with the whole leg protectors issue.

The twin problem with that, was that there was a figurehead MEP for it, in the Herr Flick-esque Martin Bangemann; and our own government had people running scared with the CJA stick too. And yet MAG, the BMF and the HA (under the late Dr Maz Harris) and others, all got their divisions out of the way and saw it off. Twice; even when Herr Bangemann thought he'd have a second bite at the pie. I'd like to think we finished his political career off too, but that's probly wishful thinking.

So, with enough weight behind it, and even when many of the protestors having a proper Corporal Fraser attack, piss-poor legislation can be prevented from progressing.

That is of course, assuming that it makes it straight onto the statute books as-is, and is enforced as such. Which is highly unlikely.

Doesn't mean to say we shouldn't protest tho'; just beware of people's political motivations for anti-EU rabble rousing.

[Guest]

The Commission itself says this about the Proposal:-

 

"The impact on the UK industry will be limited due to the high standards in relation to vehicle inspections already in force.

 

However, the minimum EU rules will mean that UK motorists would be reassured that vehicles from elsewhere in the EU driving on UK roads have undergone stringent and regular roadworthiness tests. Also, UK motorists travelling on EU roads would be at less risk from road accidents caused by unroadworthy cars.

 

...

 

"Impact of proposals on the UK

 

- Minimal cost implications for the UK.

 

- There will be no changes for private UK motorists in the frequency and testing of cars, motorbikes and scooters, as the UK already operates a higher frequency of testing than that outlined in the proposal. "

 

Emphasis supplied.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/press_releases/2012/pr1235_en.htm

[CreepingJesus]

So, in a sense, we UK motorists will be coming up against the same issue as the UK egg industry.

One of the companies I drive for is a large scale egg producer. They've spent a bob or two building a new 'shed' (about the size of an aircraft hangar) to meet the new EU poultry regs (and they're not the only ones), only to see various other member states get derogations and exemptions to hold off implementing the regs. So here, we work to a higher standard than elsewhere.

It would be nice to think that every vehicle on Europe's roads could be of the same high standard, that's what's actually needed. Followed by pan-European enforcement for traffic offences, but that is another matter!

[Guest]

What worries me most is: how the heck did Private Fraser get promoted to Corporal?

 

 

[M'coli]

^^^Is this something to do with being promoted a rank on discharge?

[Guest]

This is Walmington-on-Sea, man! Nothing, not even being a dead Scottish actor, gets you discharged from this outfit!

[CreepingJesus]

I'll leave some excuses, choose the one you like best.

 

1) Sorry, but I'm just the village idiot.

2) I was just testing you all, a prize to those who spotted my deliberate mistake.

3) He got promoted during the Korean war, at the ripe old age of 103

4) Blame years of Guinness, diesel fumes and loud music.

[Cavcraft]

Doesn't something like this crop up every couple of years or so, and everyone runs around with their trousers on fire making comments like "Oh noes, my 1952 Austin Westminster isn't on its original brake linings - de evil gubmint is going to make me scrap it" ... and fuck all ever really changes?

 

This.

[vulgalour]

The ACE response appears to be 'write to your MP/MEP'. So I'll probably do that, but what to write is the tricky part. I could sit and be complacent about it, but I'd rather at least make my voice heard just in case. I'm not all flapping of arms and whatnot and I don't fully believe writing to anyone will actually help as government has a habit of not really listening if the policy they want to enforce suits them better. But it would be nice if we didn't have to change the current system to line up with the EU, it serves us perfectly well as it stands, I see no reason to change it for the sake of changing it.

[Guest]

I agree that the case for change may not be made out, but note that we are already within an EU system - there's been a Directive in place for several years, which the current blah may replace.

[Mr_Bo11ox]