CAR magazine 1999 - The secret files that condemn Rover...

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Tthey were still using celly in 1990

 

Cowley went from Cellulose to Sythetic enamel in 1949 and Austin followed shortly after. This was replaced by Acrylic in the mid sixties - Vauxhall were the first British manufacturer to use Acrylic paint in 1963 on the first Vivas - 'Magic Mirror'.

 

The 600 was dropped asap because it was basically a Honda. The 400 ditto. Honda were offered the complete Austin Rover company but would only buy half because they felt it should remain at least 50% British. Several trips were made to Honda to convince them, but they refused. They were very put out when BMW bought the whole lot, and there was no way they would continue supplying parts long term from Swindon or shared designs. BMW thus extricated themselves from anything related to Honda ASAP.

 

The Maestro Van was finished by 1994. Cowley were only turning out a few and whilst it was still fairly competitive, it shared no parts with any production car because the Maestro and Montego had finished production - with such high unit costs and a dedicated assembly line it would have been extremely expensive to build and thus, a loss maker.

 

Also, the 75 has nothing in common with any 5 Series underneath. It's totally different.

 

I can recommend a book called 'The end of the road' by Chris Brady and Andrew Lorenz.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Rover management, like those of the other 'semi-premium' brands I mentioned, convinced themselves that there was space in the market for something a 'cut above' Ford/Vauxhall/Renault mainstream and below the German brigade, and they were (and are) dead wrong. Who on earth aspires to own a 'semi-premium' product? By definition, semi-premium is an oxymoron; it relies on your target buyer's aspirations in life being somewhat less than everyone else's.

 

Ever heard of VW? Not prestige like Audi, but not council like Ford or Vauxhall. That slightly smug 'semi presige' image has worked very well indeed.

[Betaphile]

Rover management, like those of the other 'semi-premium' brands I mentioned, convinced themselves that there was space in the market for something a 'cut above' Ford/Vauxhall/Renault mainstream and below the German brigade, and they were (and are) dead wrong. Who on earth aspires to own a 'semi-premium' product? By definition, semi-premium is an oxymoron; it relies on your target buyer's aspirations in life being somewhat less than everyone else's.

 

Ever heard of VW? Not prestige like Audi, but not council like Ford or Vauxhall. That slightly smug 'semi presige' image has worked very well indeed.

You've pretty much rebutted your own point there - I explicitly specified non-German semi-premium. Frankly, VW is the exception that proves the rule - its success is premised not on the idea of paying over the odds for a mainstream brand, but getting German 'quality' for a 'bargain' price (i.e. less than BMW/Audi/Merc). Regardless, it is a special case, and whatever Rover was or was not, it most definitely wasn't VW in any way. VW has floated on the myth of superior German engineering for years. Meanwhile, Rover thought they could overcome 20+ years' worth of bad press about dodgy build quality and unreliability overnight, for heaven knows what reason. World doesn't quite work like that.

 

The fundamental issue here is that Rover never recovered from the collapse in BL's market share at the end of the 1970s and early 1980s. BL/ARG was never massively strong in export terms anyway, so it was always overreliant on the UK market to sustain it as a volume producer. The failure to claw back market share throughout the '80s was a big driver in this push towards the semi-premium niche - replace volume with margin, was the theory. I remember reading an interview with some Rover exec in the mid-'90s - about the same time they'd just been overtaken in the monthly UK sales charts by Renault - and he was spinning this line like crazy, to the point of being delusional. The bottom line was that Rover management were a) completely wrong about the sustainability of the whole semi-premium gap in the marketplace, completely wrong about the credibility of the Rover brand in the minds of buyers and its ability to pull this off, and c) the whole effort was in any event based on a range of cars that were overpriced for what they were and obviously so. BMW's biggest failure was not to see this, and not to force a sane (i.e. volume, not 'semi-premium') pricing policy on Rover FAR earlier (like, say, five years) than they did. The real irony here is that BMW, of all companies, didn't even need to pursue this upmarket nonsense for Rover - the reason they bought it in the first place was because they wanted to expand into volume segments without undermining the prestige and exclusivity of the BMW brand. Other issues like the K-Series and the 75's name reflecting its average buyer age were almost incidental by the time BMW flogged Rover off; the die was well and truly cast by then.

[CortinaDave]

Having been given the use of a ZT for a few weeks it occurred to me how frustrating the whole state of affairs was. It's a great car, and the fact the MG design team managed to inject youth appeal into a car designed for the over 50s speaks volumes about the talent there was in the company.

 

You can look back to the sixties to see them snatch defeat from the jaws of victory over and over again with some fantastic cars blighted by bad management, poor build quality, poor marketing or industrial action.

 

The sad thing is despite it all there was still a loyal buying public right up to the end, reflected by how many MG Rovers you still see on the road today seven years after it all went pear shaped

 

It's depressing to think that on five years time you'll hardly see any.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

The fundamental issue here is that Rover never recovered from the collapse in BL's market share at the end of the 1970s and early 1980s. BL/ARG was never massively strong in export terms anyway, so it was always overreliant on the UK market to sustain it as a volume producer. .

 

Rover were selling a lot of cars in the 1990's, especially the wedgy 214/216. Rovers were also big sellers in France and Italy - one of the main things that killed Rover was the strength of the pound which made exporting cars completely unprofitable. The strong pound also wounded Jaguar and Land Rover. You really should read the book I mentioned, facts rather than heresay - it's extremely revealing.

[cheguava]

Rover were selling a lot of cars in the 1990's, especially the wedgy 214/216. Rovers were also big sellers in France and Italy - one of the main things that killed Rover was the strength of the pound which made exporting cars completely unprofitable. The strong pound also wounded Jaguar and Land Rover. You really should read the book I mentioned, facts rather than heresay - it's extremely revealing.

 

Cheers - just bought a second hand copy to take on my hols. I hadn't realised that Honda had been given first refusal - don't remember that being reported at the time, just remember their fury at the BMW deal.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Not just the Honda thing, but the sheer incompetence of Nu Layba - Stephen Byers was involved FFS. They were all set to partly fund the reconstruction of Longbridge for the 25/45 replacement, BMW were good to go and then Labour turned around and offered them 25 quid and a Dog rather than what they had agreed in principle. That was the last straw, and MG Rover was cast adrift for four chancers to line their pockets and a huge factory to close. Good old Labour!

 

But, on the other hand, Cowley survived and increased employment and Hams Hall (engine plant) got up and running. Really, a lot of the old BL empire still exists in one shape or another.

[Rocket88]

Some of their styling sketches were really good, even the Allegro looked good when it was rendered in magic markers, so why did it translate so badly in the metal?

 

 

I agree. However, the suits had spent eleventy gazillion pounds developing a new heating and ventilation system that they were going to install in every model. To get it to fit the Allegro, they had to raise the scuttle height by a few inches, which totally mangled the original flowing design.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Some of their styling sketches were really good, even the Allegro looked good when it was rendered in magic markers, so why did it translate so badly in the metal?

 

 

I agree. However, the suits had spent eleventy gazillion pounds developing a new heating and ventilation system that they were going to install in every model. To get it to fit the Allegro, they had to raise the scuttle height by a few inches, which totally mangled the original flowing design.

 

Yup, it was the Marina heater unit. There was little wrong with the heater in the 1100/1300 mark 3.

[ashmicro]

E Series donk is pretty tall too.

[phil_lihp]

The report makes sad reading but it's not a unique problem. An outsider (eg. Anyone reading the report) or someone who has a job that gives them a better overall view of the company can often spot the problems in an instant, but it seems that people who've been ingrained in the management of the company over many years loses the ability to see the wood for the trees after a while and simply cannot look beyond what they want to see. Couple that with pride and/or simple arrogance and they can seem to ignore or dismiss every warning sign.

 

I've seen this happen with small businesses ive worked for and it's depressing to watch. Either the management are too detached from day to day reality to see the warning signs or they simply choose to ignore them.

 

On the plus side, yes we've lost a lot of car industry and much else through this, but it'd be nice to think something's been learnt from it when it comes to other businesses. That and we do have some world-class car factories for Jap firms over here which fills some of the gap.

[tonedepear]

You really should read the book I mentioned

 

just bought a second hand copy to take on my hols.

 

+1

[morris_ital_lover]

On the plus side, yes we've lost a lot of car industry and much else through this, but it'd be nice to think something's been learnt from it when it comes to other businesses. That and we do have some world-class car factories for Jap firms over here which fills some of the gap.

 

TBH I think the essential lesson from the car industry in GB is that you can get a British workforce to screw together a car or build an engine etc, you can get a British team to do all the engineering and design work but don't let us try and manage the whole bloody process. The Germans and Japanese have managed to lick some workforces that were previously bedevilled with problems and get some very competent operations going where there were previously liabilities. I can't see any real change in that when you look at alot of the management in Britain in various sectors including manufacturing and elsewhere.

[RedSparrow]

I think it's been the same with most other British industries. Each section does their bit but can't, or won't, co-operate with othe sections for whatever reason.

Hence why we could no longer compete and there's nothing left.

[Rocket88]

I think it's been the same with most other British industries. Each section does their bit but can't, or won't, co-operate with othe sections for whatever reason.

Hence why we could no longer compete and there's nothing left.

 

 

As a nation we're not terribly good at mass production. All of our car manufacturing success stories [home grown ones] have been small companies making a virtually hand built product, and selling it as having "essence of Blighty" built into it. Case in point is the new Morgan 3 wheeler, which is a bizarre anachronism, but has met with rave reviews, and is selling like hot cakes.

[fiatdaft]

Hmmm the british car industry made 1.3 million cars last year,so we ain't doing that bad.

[Rocket88]

Hmmm the british car industry made 1.3 million cars last year,so we ain't doing that bad.

 

No, we're not but 95% of that production is foreign owned. As I said, purely British conceived and built stuff has always been most successful when it's been a low volume, bespoke product [albeit with a large input of overseas mechanical input.]

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Rolls-Royce is a mega successful British manufacturer, with operations throughout the world and a massive order book, it has grown from a state-owned bailout job back in the 70’s so it can be done.

[Rocket88]

Once small volume British companies fall into foreign ownership, it usually ends badly. TVR are gone, Lotus seem to be in some kind of trouble on a more or less permanant basis, only Morgan seem to have the knack of building stuff that people actually want to buy, because they have the one thing that money can't buy, a rich motoring heritage, who's roots they've never strayed too far from.

[fiatdaft]

Remember Ford isn't british owned and Vauxhall have been american owned since the 20's,I do think it is a shame there isn't a huge british owned car industry,but as long as we keep making cars here and it keeps many thousands in work .

[Pete-M]

Out of all the British cars over the years that have now departed, I really wish we still made TVRs. TVR was as British as a car could be. Great concept, some brilliant engineering and a whole world of bodging behind the scenes to keep it all from falling down somewhat embarrassingly.

 

When a Griffith 500 is allowed off the leash it's utterly mental, but in a very British way. Not complicated, easy to deal with if you understand exactly what it's trying to tell you, capable of causing massive grins everywhere it goes but with a small chance that something very very silly or highly dangerous might just happen if it gets carried away. It sounds bloody great, goes like stink, enjoys a good drink and goes on strike over stupidly small things.