Four head gaskets and two engines later... End of thread

[SambaS]

Pictures received from Will today... she been a bit hot I think.

 

Been advised to bin this engine and get a replacement.

 

 

 

[KruJoe]

 

 

...And to Malhamdale.

 

 

 

This thing has been properly roasted.

 

 

Melted insulation on bits of the loom near the head.

 

 

Melted cam pulley cover.

Mmm... caramelised oil. Whiffy.

 

 

The head bolts require a special socket for the male Torx heads. Now ordered, as are the last of the parts for the job. Let's hope it hasn't been completely cooked.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

WTF is going on there? Has your water pump caught fire? Typical K-series, etc etc

[KruJoe]

 

 

 

 

Edd just beat me to it with some of those. This picture is the plug end of those modern long plug leads.

Much of the plastic near the head shows some heat damage. Is there hope?

[SambaS]

My mate at the scrapyard said the head will be scrap and he holds little hope for the block either with that much heat damage. I'm open to suggestion at the moment.

 

Worst case I could get a replacement engine as early as tomorrow if need be.

 

Then the OMG HGF roulette can start again

 

Or we fit all the new parts to the new engine.........

 

EDIT I say "we" I mean Will

[cort16]

When are you going to do your van bollox? That thing is hawt.

[Lankytim]

Fooking hell! Never seen one like that before, I agree with mr Scrappy, I don't think i'd want to spend any time and effort repairing that engine.

[beko1987]

That's very impressive! Oh, and faaarking hell!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

^^^OMGHGFBBQ

 

I’m hoping to get stuck into my van this weekend actually if it doesn’t piss down. I’ve dragged it up to the house, purchased a MLS gasket set + bolts and am collecting the cam locking tool and ‘inside out torx’ bits from Fatha_ba11b@g tonight after which I should be fully equipped for K SERIES SUCCESS!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Just checked the weather, NON STOP RAIN this weekend apparently so forget that.  

[dollywobbler]

Cripes. Perkins Prima time!

[SambaS]

Got up early this morning, went to scrapyard. Spent three hours taking the head of the MG ZR, the torqx bolts were a pain in ye old arse, firstly they were feck me tight even with a 4 foor bar on my ratchet, also forgot Will already said the right size so tried a 10mm and failed. then got eight of them off with a 9mm and a hammer... the final two after I broke the 9mm torqx bit came out with the correct tool an E12 torqx bit. Oops.

 

 

This bolt was a barsteward, I was crying for a ratchet 8mm spanner. it holds the back of the cam cover on.

 

 

This was literally the last thing holding the head on and rounded. FECK! Tried to chisel it off, then mashed it up so much when I hammered the 15mm back on it worked.

 

 

Oh:

 

 

Oh dear!

 

 

Wish I'd have noticed that hole in the back of the block first!

 

 

So 3 bent valves, one snapped valve and a mashed up cylinder head

 

 

*Sigh*

 

 

Least I have a few parts that we need. Also I suspect the plastic inlet manifol on this will be fine as the engine died of being smashed to bits as opposed to heat exhaustion. Or.......... near fire like mine.

 

 

So got this to try in a 45

 

 

Could this Land Rover Freelander head be any good to me?

 

[explosive-cabbage]

 

Wish I'd have noticed that hole in the back of the block first!

 

Edd, you legend.

 

I've had a lot on today, so have just got home and am going out to get the head off the MG now. Ill send you pics as soon as I have them. 

 

Cambelt, Tensioner, Waterpump and waterpump gasket will about £75. I ordered them yesterday but ordered one with a manual tensioner instead of an automatic one, so they are sending them back and gettting a new one in. I will collect them tomorrow I'll keep invoices etc. etc, and sort out with you after.

 

Send me a ''NO, DONT DO IT'' text before 12noon tomorrow if there is a change of plan and we don't need all them parts.

 

If you need to get a new head over, we could meet halfway? Top of Coverdale or something?

[SambaS]

Lets see what's what when the top comes off and take it from there, even if I get a new engine the new parts can go on that if need be.

 

Just stick the pics on ere

 

Nice one!

[explosive-cabbage]

 

This was literally the last thing holding the head on and rounded. FECK! Tried to chisel it off, then mashed it up so much when I hammered the 15mm back on it worked.

 

 

 

Stop getting yourself wound up!

 

Just lift the head off, complete with Intake/Exhaust manifolds attached! This head was a joy to take off because you don't need to undo the manifolds until you have it on a bench!

[SambaS]

The manifold was attached to the down pipe on this car and it was sat on no wheels with another car on top of it, undoing the bottom of the manifold was not an option........

 

I could have gas axed it off, that would have been plan B.

[KruJoe]

Will's progress this evening (emailed for me to post):

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

Got 3/8ths socket with a half inch drive, that was cheap and it got the head bolts out no probs.

Head Gasket had split between the layers of metal.

Inlet manifold has melted around the bolt holes

Breather pipe had melted on the inlet manifold

The mating faces where all the gaskets have cleaned up well. The face of the head was true and flat when I had cleaned it, though the metal area around the valves stood proud of the cylinder head itself, you could feel by touch that the top of the cylinder head where the valves seat  had risen slightly, like a tiny step. This was worse on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd cylinders and unnoticeable on the 4th.
It was obvious the leak had been between the oil chamber and the pistons on all 4 pistons, possibly a warped head caused by heat in that area. Oily plugs and a noticable residue between cylinders and oil chambers. The gasket had failed aswell. May not have been torqued down hard enough last time. Head bolts were looser than I would have imagined, though this could be due to the bolts stretching.
Plugs were looser than I would have tightened them up to, though tight enough to need a ratchet to undo. 

Poured deisel into cylinders to check the for leaking piston rings, and the diesel sat in the cylinders instead of leaking down into the sump straight away, which tells me the piston rings are okay.
No damage whatsoever to cylinder walls, smooth as glass
The head of the block is as good as any I have seen, with no steps between the blocks and the liners, and cleaned up well. I think the block is fine.

Showing all signs of being run completely dry with no coolant. The oil is fucked and the coolant passages smell like caramel!

In my opinion the engine will run fine if we stick it back together, but it is difficult to tell if the head is warped so I don't know how long it will last. I can put a new head in no problem if you want to, using the new parts I have on order.
I don't know why there us a step between the head face and the top of the pistons where the valves sit but if you want the job doing well I would recommend putting a new head on if you can get one to me easy enough and if it won't be too expensive, or skimming the one we have as a last resort.

Parts we need from scrappers:
•Inlet manifold
•2xHT leads (the ones with the coil at the top don't need replacing, just the two leads that come off the coils)
•breather pipe that had melted, joins to throttle body (see pics)
•new air intake (top of air box, air filter and tube to throttle body) - your aftermarket one is fucked around the jubilee clip as it has been rubbing on bonnet. And is full of oil.
•sidelight bulb
•coolant pipe from rad to thermostat housing, with the one joining it that goes round the left of the engine if you can get it as one whole peice
•Radiator if you can get one cheap.

I have a proposition regarding a bonnet. Ask your scrapyard mate how much he would charge you for a replacement from a scrapper and let me know!

 

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[KruJoe]

 

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[SambaS]

Can anyone advise given Will's comments on the raised areas of the cylinder head whether its worth skimming, pressure testing, then all being well reusing this head. Thanks.

[KruJoe]

MOAR:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SambaS]

Well I've heard conflicting information today:

 

1. Make sure the block is perfectly flat

2. Make sure the liners are slightly proud of the block or the new gasket wont seal and it will be square one within a couple of days.

 

I am going to go to my local MG/Rover specialist after lunch, who just happens to be my friendly MOT man and ask him. He's definately a K Series guru.

[SambaS]

My guru was out... the other mechanics said if blocks flat should be fine, liners shouldn't be raised.

 

Just pressure test head and skim if needed then rebuild..

[Danblez]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1224322&d=0&nmt=

 

This page of the thread refers to deep grooves in the head made by the fire ring. Is this what has caused the raised aread around the valves? Last post on the page. The head is certainly completely flat on the one he is rebuilding.

[SambaS]

We were going to skim this but look:

 

 

 

 

[Albert Ross]

_{Big mistake made on stripping.... You should have set the cam timing, so all pistons were level. Now you have to be really careful not to bend valves as you refit the head.}

[Pillock]

It'll just be a fun game of chance.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Yo, have youse got two MGZR throttle bodies? I will need one to upgrade my van from 84 to 104hp at some point.

[Alexg]

I thought they had the same size throttle bodies?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Hmm, I thought the only difference between the 84 and the 104 was that the throttle bodies are different.

[Alexg]

Actually, a quick bit off googling suggests the lesser bhp 1.4 fitted to your van has a 'restricted' throttle body