Kettle Series Cla$$ics

[Father Ted]

Im on nights....

 

I dont like nights....

 

Im sat on my own in healthcare with only a PC, Autoshite and a 2 way radio for company....

 

I start having strange thoughts when I am on nights....

 

LIKE:

 

Obviously as a fat 40-odd year old I need something that will appeal to the laydeeez and get knicker elastic twanging in a way the sight of me in a pair of speedos just wont, and something like an open top MGF would be ace for this now the days are getting warmer. BUT. Its going to have the Kettle series Rover engine isnt it, and no matter what I do, its only a matter of time before it eats itself and dies. Given that the Kettle Series 1.8 is so bad and a ticking time bomb, what could it be replaced with, not only that would you really be able to lob and older more reliable engine into a modern car and still be able to pass MOT's?

 

Much is written about putting modern donkeys in older cars (lobbing an XU9D into a Traction for instance is something that has been done more than once), but is there anything about putting an older engine in a modern car - Im thinking say a T, series BL engine into the MGF. Would it have to undergo an SVA? Would the MOT tester fail it because you have ripped out all the modern anti cancer causing stuff that chokes the MPG and ruins reliability? And what the HELL is making that screeching noise outside?

[warren t claim]

MGB powered by an XUD lifted out of an ex-GPO LDV Pilot would be easier.

[KruJoe]

I read* that for MOT emissions etc, the test applies to whichever is older (car or engine), so if you stuck a 1989 Toyota Corona lump in a 2002 MGF for example, then it wouldn't even need a cat. You may need a report from an engineer to say what conversion has been done, or a letter from Toyota saying this engine number comes from this '89 car.

I 'think' the benefits also apply to the road tax band, so fitting a Starlet motor would see £130/yr RFL (or however much it is now).

 

 

*Somewhere on the internet

[nigel bickle]

And there was me, thinking you were talking about early 70s Suzuki 750's....

 

Oh the shame..

[ashmicro]

Or get an F that's working, manual override for the fan, remote stat and a coolant expansion tank with the level sensor as fitted to the TF from MG Crispy Duck & Flying Bomb (Concern UK).

 

I think a T Series will go in at a push (probably literally), or investigate a 1.6 litre variant, which is reputed to be more reliable from the start. Surely some loon somewhere has fitted an L series?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Maybe a 1.5 diesel from an AX might go in easily due to its use in the Metro. Now that would be awesome.

 

To be honest all of these ideas sound about 100 times more bother than getting the head gasket done ‘properly’ with all the latest bits by someone who knows the crack, immediately after purchase.

[Alexg]

Given that the Metro front subframe is basically the same as the rear in an MGF the PSA 1.5 Diesel should be quite simple to fit.... just pull it out the bottom of a Metro, lower an MGF over the top.

 

Even more simple, just buy an unabused MGF with the MLS gasket upgrade.

[Tartan58]

just pull it out the bottom of a Metro, lower an MGF over the top.

 

aka "hammer a sportier one over it"

 

or do what I just did and buy an MX-5 and to hell with all the homophobic comments, I'm a happily married man - the engines in these are bomb proof* just watch for rusty sills.

[The Moog]

I was reading the UKSaabs forum and came across this.

 

I actually worked on the M16 engine for the Rover 800 at the time.

What you have to bear in mind is Car manufacturers are a business out to make money and they do this by selling cars. One of my pals at uni was told by Ford that if they could make money by some other means, they would.

The K Series engine wasn't designed to be rebuilt. It is a very good design for an engine to go into a new car. It is overly complex to be easily rebuilt. The plan was (back in '87) 99,x% of engines would be fine for the warranty period/first owner usage, the majority for several years after. If an engine failed within warranty then a new one was dropped in, the cost of a replacement unit versus rebuilding was insignificant/ or less, I forget which.

The crankcase wall thickness is only 3mm thick, the cross ribbing provides NVH reduction. The strength of the engine comes from the head bolts, they run through the head and the block into a ladder frame that supports the main bearings. It's a bit like prestressed concrete, there isn't much strength in the block as such, it kind of keeps the liners head and rotating bits in the correct place and stops oil and water falling onto the road. The headbolts constrain the cylinder head to the main bearings, so carry the loads from the bang! It's not hugely different from a conventional engine because if you think about it the head bolts carry all the load from the combustion intop the block and the main bearing cap bolts react it, it's just Austin Rover took the block out of the equation, brilliant piece of engineering.

The headbolts (I can't remember the actual diameter) are very high tensile steel.

The bolts are stretched to yield when you fit the head which is why they can't be re-used. The engine was designed about material utilisation, using advanced manufacturing (for the time) techniques, and minimised costs (which is what it is about).

 

http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94659

[Father Ted]

Im less concerned about HGF really, more long term with the 1.8 dropping the liners into the block, then basically the engine is scrap. Its a problem widely touted amongst the Land Rover Freeloader community and it got me thinking last night. I used the MGF as an example of something that potentially could become extinct due to the fragile donkey.

 

It really is a serious question, it seems that the engines (the 1.8 at least) are ticking time bombs in this respect and ultimately if you have something with the K series 1.8 or above its likely that you will need to source some form of substitute engine, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But soon. And for the rest of the cars life if you want to keep it running. So my question was quite serious, if you want to potentially keep something like this on the road for another 20 or 30 years what can you do? Convert it to electric? Hardly a sane proposition. But dropping a different engine in is a more viable proposition. With the MGF as has been mentioned it shares the Rover 100 subframe, so finding something else to fit may not be impossible, be it the XU donkey (entertainingly slow) or a more reliable 1.6 or 1.4 K variant, or going the alternative engine route - possibly even a bike engine.

 

I dont profess to know anything about the complexities of mating running gear up to different engines, but concerned myself more with putting a (potentially) older engine into a comparably modern car and the difficulties that can be encountered come MOT time in terms of emissions etc.

[Alexg]

With the MGF as has been mentioned it shares the Rover 100 subframe, so finding something else to fit may not be impossible, be it the XU donkey (entertainingly slow) or a more reliable 1.6 or 1.4 K variant...

 

Save yourself a shit load of hassle, this exists for you

 

[Craig the Princess]

So my question was quite serious, if you want to potentially keep something like this on the road for another 20 or 30 years what can you do? Convert it to electric? Hardly a sane proposition.

 

Funny you should say that

http://www.evalbum.com/3250

 

[dollywobbler]

Jet power FTW!

http://www.jetpower.co.uk/gtcar_02.htm

 

As I read about in MG Enthusiast magazine. Wonderful British eccentricity. Uses the jet to generate electricity so technically is an electric car!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

That MGF is extraordinary!!! I freakin LOVE IT! I want to know how far it can travel on a gallon of fuel.

[dollywobbler]

I've a sneaky suspicion that the magazine feature didn't actually mention that rather important fact. I can't find my copy of it though due to OMG FILING KAOS.

[Albert Ross]

How hard might it be to get a rotten Honda engined 200, (Twincam 16V... you know, the fast one) and get the whole engine/box/subframe assembly to fit........? Or indeed, from the same stud, as mentioned earlier, the XUD Turbo ..... Honda 2.5/2.7 V6 from the 800? Mini NSX anyone?

[Craig the Princess]

That MGF is extraordinary!!! I freakin LOVE IT! I want to know how far it can travel on a gallon of fuel.

 

The noise it makes on the videos is outstanding. Can imagine that overtaking on the M1 would be an experence! About 11,000,000billionty times better than that Celica on RR.

[Father Ted]

Save yourself a shit load of hassle, this exists for you

 

 

Mmmmm, nice.

But I thinks you may be missing my point about 1800 (and up) K series....