Car value bell curve

[Pete-M]

First Mk2 RS2000 I bought cost me £800 in 1989.

Then bought a Mk1 Mexico for £350, a Mk2 RS "Replica" that I'm sure was far more RS than it appeared for £1100, which I swapped for an RS1600i and £400 my way. Next RS was the immaculate one I was offered the 18 month old RST for, that cost me £3850 which was absolute top money for a Mk2 at the time. I bought a Mk2 Mexico for £800 at the same time. Until Ian Harwood started selling RS1800s to New Zealanders for £10k in '92, and rallying opened up to Mk1s and Mk2s that's all they were worth.. Then the prices started to rise, although I bought XEM649W which was one of the last 50 or so built and was originally a Merseyside Dibble car for £400. I swapped a slightly ratty D reg BX GTi for the last Mk2 RS I had. The BX owed me £400 and that was in '95.

 

All those Mk1s and RS2000s would fetch at least £4k now.

 

My S1 RS Turbo I got as a swap for an E21 323i and an Alpine head unit. So it cost me around £800, worth £3000 now? The E21 would be worth a bit less now.

 

The XR3i I had in mid '92. A726GCM. Caspian Blue with the electric windows etc. I think that cost me £900. Sold it for £1800, which was nice. About what it'd fetch now.

 

My Sapphire Cosworth cost me £6200 in '96. It'd still be worth that now.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The Mk1 & Mk2 RS Escorts were epic in the handling department which a FWD car could not hope to match.

 

 

Even 30-40 years ago, the Alfasud could run rings around an Escort. I have a CAR road test from '74 with the RS2000 and Alfasud Ti. The Sud could take any corner 10 mph faster and not be going sideways.

 

I can't recall which tyres mine had, but I never skimped - I think they had Pirelli P700's? The XR3i was almost as fast, not as nervy, a lot more forgivingand had much nicer brakes. Mine was a C plate in a dark metallic blue (not Nimbus), bought in 1989 - already rusting on the rear 1/4 to rear panel joint under the rear bumper.

[fiatdaft]

Don't forget these.

 

 

£400 with a heap of spares in january 2000,try buying a cheap one now.

[Felly Magic]

Tidy mk1 Fiesta Supersports fetch good wedge already. And for those saying XR3's & RS T's wont go bonkers..Too late, they already are fetching very good money, and have been for several years. Mk4 Scrotes rusted worse than Mk3's, and as survivors start to get rarer, prices will start climbing. Any cooking Ford always ends up making money, like it or not. Escort Mk2 survivors that havent been Cossie'd or Zetec'd/Duratec'd are worth good wedge, but the fannied about ones arent, even if the jokers trying to sell them think they are. If you own any 2 door Scrote that has a tidy shell, even if its a Pop, the rally boys will pay top dollar.

 

Onions seem to be worthless though, even though the Ghia injection wasn't a bad tool.

 

Just spotted locally to me a Sierra XR4i on an A plate in cardinal red for £5k...So these are slowly going up now. AT LAST!

[fiatdaft]

Asking and getting are 2 different things.

[Pete-M]

Don't forget these. [131 Supermirafiori Sport]

£400 with a heap of spares in january 2000,try buying a cheap one now.

 

I had one of those and a Mk2 RS at the same time. The Fiat was comfier and could go around corners more quickly than a standard RS.

 

Nowhere near as much fun though. Mine, TUT 131X, cost me £400 in '94.

[fiatdaft]

The sport next to it has a guy croft engine with about 160 ish bhp ,can you remember the name of beige that the rs2000 just in picture was?A mk2 cortina lotus joined us on the run home that day,good fun

[M'coli]

Even 30-40 years ago, the Alfasud could run rings around an Escort. I have a CAR road test from '74 with the RS2000 and Alfasud Ti. The Sud could take any corner 10 mph faster and not be going sideways.

Perhaps that was the point though - the Escort would be going sideways, and thus would seem to be more fun. Handling itself doesn't have to mean that something goes around a corner fast, just that it does it in a manner that is pleasing to the driver - one person could hate the way a car handles, but another like it.

[Pete-M]

Handling and grip are two different things that are often linked together.

 

Those Supermirafiori Sports grip better than a Mk2 RS, but the Fiat is nowhere near as much fun to chuck sideways and have a giggle in.

 

Some people judge the way a car goes around corners by how well it grips. Others by how much fun a car is when it's on the limit of grip. Some prefer a car that reacts to throttle position as much as to steering inputs. Others prefer the steering to do all the direction changing. Peugeots, Fiats, Alfas, Lancias and Fords tend to be easily adjustable in corners using small inputs via the throttle pedal as much as by the wheel. Vauxhall cornering tends to be completely immune to throttle or small steering inputs, as are most older Audis and quite a lot of Mercedes.

 

I think it's just personal preference. Some folks (probably more intelligent than I) have never had a car sideways in their lives, drive sensibly and have no interest whatsoever in how a car handles at the limit. They don't go near the limit and know it's a daft thing to do. They're quite right, of course. Others like cars that are twitchy little buggers and a challenge to tame, Peugeot 205 GTi owners spring to mind here. Others again like cars that never ever run out of grip when they're being driven sensibly, they drive Audi Quattros and Subaru Legacys. Then there's the choice of FWD, 4WD, RWD.

 

It'll go on forever, and it's all subjective.

[Autoplas]

Even 30-40 years ago, the Alfasud could run rings around an Escort. I have a CAR road test from '74 with the RS2000 and Alfasud Ti. The Sud could take any corner 10 mph faster and not be going sideways.

Perhaps that was the point though - the Escort would be going sideways, and thus would seem to be more fun. Handling itself doesn't have to mean that something goes around a corner fast, just that it does it in a manner that is pleasing to the driver - one person could hate the way a car handles, but another like it.

 

Plus the Alfasud was 2.1seconds slower to 60mph (and thats a late model). I'm not one to quote car performance stats on here but that isn't a tiny amount to quibble over, its an AGE.

[fiatdaft]

0 to 60 isn't a great measure of performance, 0 to 100 and the quarter mile are better,anyway as somebody has already said performance does to equal value!

[Morgan84]

I think the Skoda Rapide and Ford Puma will be valuble in the future.The Puma 1.7 is great to drive,only let down by crap headlamp output,and reversing blindspots !

[Autoplas]

0 to 60 isn't a great measure of performance, 0 to 100 and the quarter mile are better,anyway as somebody has already said performance does to equal value!

 

Comparing them over what ever measurement you choose produces the same result, that the Rs2000 was a quicker car. I owned a Lancia Beta back in the 1980s that was quicker than the Alfasud, but was it a better drivers car than the RS2000 - not a chance

[Felly Magic]

Rare doesn't always mean valuable. Just look at classic Eastern Bloc chod. Penny numbers but still mint ones barely scrape £2k, often much less. Cars like the Super Mirafiori will never be as valuable as the RS2, simply because there is no real demand for them. They just weren't common enough, or had the exposure here in the UK that Fords did in the 70s. Being as fragile as a choc ice in a heatwave didn't help either, a fault still very common on Italian cars.

[fiatdaft]

lolz.

[John F]

Appearance matters as well.

 

To most people, an RS2000 is a squillion times better looking than a Fiat Supermirafiori (and it doesn't have a name that sounds like a bionic vegetable).

[fiatdaft]

Where is the fiat supermirafiori? i can't see one.

[Felly Magic]

The Mirafiori just looks like a slighly evolved 124, which in turn has Lada-esque overtones. Fiatdaft wont like this, but I think it is positively FUGLY, and Fiat could have done much better styling wise. It was basically a 1960s car design, that was way out of date. Fiat really did lose the plot in the 70s & 80s, with awful lookers like the 128 saloon (a 60s design that lived on way too long), the Regatta, Strada/Ritmo, Tempra, and Tipo. Urgh! The Panda had its rugged charm, but again lived on too long, the Uno was better, but the facelift versions seemed to spoil the lines, and give it an overly long looking nose.

[Cavcraft]

Just to prove it's all subjective I reckon the FIAT is the better looker of the two.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

0 to 60 isn't a great measure of performance, 0 to 100 and the quarter mile are better,anyway as somebody has already said performance does to equal value!

 

Comparing them over what ever measurement you choose produces the same result, that the Rs2000 was a quicker car. I owned a Lancia Beta back in the 1980s that was quicker than the Alfasud, but was it a better drivers car than the RS2000 - not a chance

 

I had a Beta 2000, and didn't like it. It didn't feel fast and had steering like a non PAS Princess, heavy and low geared. The 131 2000 was a much nicer vehicle although I only drove a four door.

 

The 131 was only ever meant to be a tin box in the Cortina/Marina mould. It replaced a tin can called the 124, and was replaced by another tin can. Everyone expects Italian cars to be exciting but all the average Italian motorist wants is something reliable and easy to service. At that it did very well - I like the original pre '78 cars.

 

The only Sud that could keep pace with an RS2000 was the twin carburettor 95 bhp Veloce version. The 105 bhp car was never as fast or 'sweet' - the engine was too peaky and the gearing didn't suit it. To be fair, the RS2000 had plenty of torque and nice long gearing - iirc it could get to 60 in second gear.

 

E21 323i - now that was a hairy bastard that would crucify the RS2000, 131 etc. But it really needed the LSD to overcome the abysmal traction in the wet. I had plenty of scares in mine.

[fiatdaft]

Felly you do know that has nothing to do with the price of cars eh? And that there have been a couple of 131's that have sold for over 100,000 euro's ?

[M'coli]

Are they cooking 131s or the 16v Abarth jobs?

 

I think part of the Escort mythology was their rally and race success, coupled with the parts-bin ease that you could throw a fairly rapid one together 20-30 years ago using an Escort 1100 as the base vehicle and a 2 litre Pinto from a scrappy - group 2 insurance (because you never told the insurance the engine had been changed), and more power than brakes. These would be run on a shoestring, and you'd promise yourself one day that you'd own an RS2000, or a Mexico or whatever. Unless your name was Pete-M, and you just ran them instead!

 

In my experience the big disadvantage of anything Italian (or French, for that matter) 20-30 years ago was they were always at least one group higher than the equivalent Ford or Austin/Morris, back when there were only 7 groups.

[Pete-M]

They'll be the Abarth 16v jobs, and they'll be ex-works ones.

 

The 131 Supermirafiori Sport (Racing in other markets) wasn't a bad car. I like Supermirafioris. I've had three or four of them. I still prefer the way the RS drives, especially when fitted with a Sierra 5 speed gearbox - which most of mine ended up with.

 

Across country I found the RS to be quicker because it has more predictable handling. The Fiat would be twitchy when the RS was trusty. The Fiat probably could corner faster under scientific conditions, but on a B road mission at 3 in the morning the Escort wins hands down. The Escort can be got into ridiculous states of sideways silliness and rescued a lot more easily than the Fiat. That's what I love about the RS. It's easy to choose not just whether it's going to go around a corner but exactly how it'll go around. The Fiat can do the same tricks but it doesn't give the same range of choice. Maybe down to Fiat's early adoption of low profile tyres, maybe down to the sleepier steering, might be the torque delivery, could well be the Fiats extra weight or longer wheelbase.

 

It's weird because I love Escorts for their sideways tomfoolery, but I don't enjoy getting MX5s, BMWs, or lots of other cars to do the same thing. They'll all do it, and the Drift boys seem to get them to play along happily enough, but after a good Mk2 it's no fun.

[Felly Magic]

Felly you do know that has nothing to do with the price of cars eh? And that there have been a couple of 131's that have sold for over 100,000 euro's ?

 

Notice Euros, i.e not in the UK, and these no doubt will have been former works rally cars. Blue oval former rally & race cars have sold for similar in POUNDS for donkeys years. Boggo road cars will never come close, and you can't seem to get your bonce around that fact, that here in the UK, most Fiats are borderline worthless . They may be worth more at home in Italy where Fiat is more or less worshipped, but here in Blighty, Fiat is well known as that firm that makes rotboxes with awful electrics (FIX IT AGAIN TONY). Former works Lotus Cortinas have gone for well over £100k, and even mint RS200's are now demanding insane money in road car spec. (£50k +) We are talking ROAD cars here, not rally special jobs. Sheesh!

 

Fords will always be worth money, thanks to the slick marketing machine they have had for decades, and massive worldwide owners clubs, and their motor sport dominance throughout the 1960's & 1970s, and well into the 80s. It is known as the Halo Effect. Product placement in the 1970's really helped too, with the likes of The Sweeney, and Professionals.If other manufacturers had done the same, their old snotters would also be sought after. For instance BL dropped a huge clanger with The Professionals, as the early 1st series, they were in BL cars, (Dolly Sprint/TR7/SD1/P6/Triumphs, and even the original credits featured a Rolls Shadow!), but their stupid press dept had a habit of loaning the shoot cars out to journalists at the time, which played hell with continuity. If Bodie & Doyle had been doing handbrake turns in BL chod every Saturday night, demand for them would have been insane, especially now. Capri 3.0S fetch good prices because of that show, and that is the only real reason why. It gave the car a certain coolness. The same went for GM with the Trans Am in the 'Bandit' films and the humdrum GMC van became a cult vehicle worldwide thanks to one TV series, the 'A Team'. You just have to look at how many replicas there are out there now( which always sell for five figure sums in £'s) , and even many 1980s Trans Am's get the 'Knight Rider' look, and there is a thriving cottage industry in the states making nosecones & interior gubbins for them. And would DMC-12's be worth anything if it wasn't for the Back To The Future series? I think not. Even the owner of DMC in the states has made a replica for himself. Says it all.

 

You want your cars to be cool and in demand & guaranteed cult status? Get them on a high profile prime time TV slot, or in a blockbuster movie, with lots of action & car chases in. Cool rules.

[warren t claim]

As far as I can remember RS2000 prices have never really bottomed out to sub £500 level, even when they were largely forgotten about. They never really sold in huge numbers like the XR3 which may be down to them only being sold through a few select dealers which means there were very few to go around. If we cast our minds back to the early 1980s we'd remember that the XR3i was THE car to have, nearly new examples would sell at a premium and they had amongst the highest residuals of any used car. The RS was seen as a bit of a throwback to a bygone era with its crude suspension and carb fed Pinto.

 

Many moons ago I had a short conversation with a very famous racing driver about the whole RS vs XR thing and he said that below 30mph on a dry road and 40mph in the wet the RS2000 is one of the most fun and rewarding cars to drive in the world but over those speeds there's no way a standard example would keep up with an XR3i in the right hands. Poor traction is the enemy of the FWD Escorts, but keep your speed up and they're one of the quickest point to point cars you can buy for the money. IIRC this was back in 1989ish.

 

Having said that, a well sorted RWD Escort is still higher up on my wish list than the ability to suck my own penis.

[Cavcraft]

Citroen Picassos are sleeping giants in the money stakes. If I were someone else I'd be looking to buy as many early-ish examples as I can get my hands on. Apparantly the 1.6 petrol engined ones are going to be the most sought after and the days of really cheap (sub £600) ones are literally numbered.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Citroen Picassos are sleeping giants in the money stakes. If I were someone else I'd be looking to buy as many early-ish examples as I can get my hands on. Apparantly the 1.6 petrol engined ones are going to be the most sought after and the days of really cheap (sub £600) ones are literally numbered.

 

Yup. My cash is on the limited edition 'Chien Merde'.

[fiatdaft]

felly instead of opening your mouth and letting your belly rumble maybe you should do do some research,you do know that the the 131 won 3 times the world rally championships that the escort won,have you had a look at 131 mirafiori sport prices?Nobody is denying some fords are worth a fair bit of cash.

 

 

I get it that you don't like fiats or me but take off the blinkers ,its very rare to se a rusty modern fiat.

[John F]

Citroen Picassos are sleeping giants in the money stakes. If I were someone else I'd be looking to buy as many early-ish examples as I can get my hands on. Apparantly the 1.6 petrol engined ones are going to be the most sought after and the days of really cheap (sub £600) ones are literally numbered.

 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

As far as I can remember RS2000 prices have never really bottomed out to sub £500 level, even when they were largely forgotten about.

 

 

They did, but only when they were shagged. That'll be the majority of them. You never saw them at regular scrapyards, but specialist breakers pulled most of them to bits with the adverts in Motoring News.. To be fair though, it was rare to see a Mark 2 RS2000 advertised for less than a grand. I bought my Mark 11 Mexico in 1987 for £250 from the Auto Trader - no engine/box, borked wings and arches etc.