BXcellent- tech prob need advice pls

[scooters]

 

 

Well well well,

 

Mrs S gave me a lift in the Scoob up to Moog's Mother-in-Law's place in Kinross this morning to collect the BX. Lovely sunny autumn day up here and the drive over the Forth bridge was excellent The only dr5ag being they are digging up the A90 and M90 at the moment so it is 40 (av speed camera facists) most of the way so we were a wee bit late.

 

Will's Mil's house was easy to locate as it was the only one on the street with PSA's finest angular chod parked outside it - squatting suitably low on it's haunches. First glance was ho ho! A collection of wonderful BX nutter related stickers on the back window and boot door and the outrageous spoiler is in pretty god fettle compared to some I have seen. Mark (mnde) has kept the car in excellent daily condition. The central locking worked on the key with usual Citroen stick-the-door-lock-knob-through-your-elbow-when-you-are-resting-your-arm-on-the-window-ledge power and I climbed into the wonderfully comfortable BX seats.

 

This is the first time I have owned or even been in a BX that wasn't a range topping Gti or TZD. The Meteror was a special edition with a better tuned 1.6 carbed engine producing 94 Bhp- a similar output to the BX17 Diesel Turbo. Equipment is modest and good - the superb pinstriped fabric interior (I am always impressed with the quality of the non-tweed trim level in 1980s Citroens without exception the 3 BXs and 2 CXs I have owned have always had spotless upholstery a testament to the hard wearing nature of the fabrics used.)

 

The dash is the usual Mk2 BX affair a pod sitting with good visibility on top of the dash containing a speedo (with the usual BX wobbly needle), a rev counter, oil, petrol but unlike the cars I have owned there is no temperature gauge - only the yellow and red lights of death - if this light comes on all it does is tell your your head is already cooked!! There are electric windows up front and manuals at the back no one touch opening on the driver's side as in the Gti and TZD. An electric sunroof, digital clock, parcel shelf sunblinds and that's your lot. No electric mirrors, aircon,rear electric windows. I tried the key and the battery is indeed dead. Will had reported that getting close to Kinross after the 450 mile drive the lights were beginning to dim and Mark has mentioned that the alternator brushes were on their last legs - looks like they have finally given up. No matter, I had the big battery from the Pug in the boot of the scoob and some jump leads so I hooked it all up and the car started on the 4th turn - needs some pedal as Mark said I suspect the autochoke must be sticking a wee bit. The suspension kicks in nice and quickly and up she goes.

 

Under the bonnet I was amazed at how dinky the 1.6 with the carb looks - slightly offset infront of the driver (as per the CX). I'm used to the 1.7/1.9 and XUD and the 1.9 petrol which are significantly larger and with turbos and EFI there is not a lot of space to work under the bonnet. The whole set up looks brilliantly straightforward and all the bits that tend to leave you on the hard shoulder are within easy reach - the alternator is the most accessible I have seen in a while - no burrowing into the bowels of an 850 here!

 

A quick wander round the car while she warmed up I confirmed the car is exactly how Mark described it (as it was always going to be) body work is very sound in all the nasty BX places - I'll need to sort the4 sill out and patch the boot exhaust hanger seam at some point. paint on the plastic bonnet and the roof line is worn as described but not unsightly for a car of this type. The paint in other areas is in good nick and I rather suspect that a partial respray of the roof and bonnet could be all that is required.

 

Mrs S was looking impatient to get back to Edinburgh so I got behind the wheel and we headed off stopping at the petrol station to get some juice for the Scoob - I didn't want to switch the engine on the BX off to see if I could get some charge into it.

 

It is a good thing to stp away from a car for a while and come back to it. I drove a BX for years, I passed my driving text in a TZD and had Niges old Gti earlier this year. The amazing thing about the BX is that no two models are the same experience..following the Gti the Meteor is a lot more refined and poised on the road - you wouldn't think so but of course the theory with Citroen was rather than sticking in a heavy lump of power, you keep the car as light as possible to maximise the efficiant use of that power and enhance this with superb suspension. The Meteor is far more in this church than and of the other BX's I have owned - you always got the impression with thre others that they were slightly compromising but this car is 100% mad Citroen in the way that a CX22 is. I had forgotten how sooth and refined the suspension is you really do float on the road and the car, despite narrow tyres, handles the bendy bits with supreme and total confidence. The gear change on this example is the best I have ever used on a BX which can be a bit clunky and vauge - this is rifle bolt percise. The car pulls away with ample power and is acceptable throughout the whole range. Even in 5th you get a decent amount of pull - not the XUD type but more than adequate. After the bone shaking Scoob the car feels serene to drive. Noise levels are nice and low under 60mph largely due to Mark's addition of a diesel underbonnet liner which helps to muffle things. The exhaust tone is very similar to the douvrain engined CX 22 I had. There was the occasional blip on the carb when flooring after coasting for a few yards but nothing unacceptable and the car was getting low on gas. Over 60mpg wind noise was quite bad - worse than on any other BX I have driven - I suspect that the 3 vaned wiper spoiler is the source of this so I will remove it to check (despite the fact that it is an ubershite badge!).

 

There is a clicking from the speedo area - I suspect it is the drive for the tach - probably needs a skoosh of lithium grease - all still working so not too worried about it. The stereo has no face - Will was using it on the way up so I suspect it is in his bag!

 

I decided to get some gas going into Edinburgh so stopped. This time the battery was totally dead - I jumped it from the spare battery again and drove home - the last half mile there was not enough juice to work the wipers or the indicators or the windows - the central locking was out as well. It certainly looks like the alternator has finally given up the ghost. I hope the battery hasn't suffered too badly either.

 

So - before I can use the car I really need to sort this out. Before I go ordering bits for it I am going to have a quick look at the 306 Alternator - the 1.9TD runs on a 12V alternator - if I can get it to fit is there any reason why I shouldn't be able to use it in the BX which is also a 12V unit? There may be a wait on the bits for the BX.

 

anyway a big thanks to Mark and another one to Will for driving it up here - I totally love it and am genuinely impressed with this now rare and very pure model of Citroen. If you want one - there is an identical one on ebay just now!

[garbaldy]

So what has happened to your camera

[scooters]

lol - pics later - got to get at the alternator - if I need any bits I need to order from Wood before 3 to get next day delivery!

[Cavcraft]

Excellence! Wind noise could be the seal around the drivers door window, had a couple that had perished or broken away.

[garbaldy]

lol - pics later - got to get at the alternator - if I need any bits I need to order from Wood before 3 to get next day delivery!

 

so whats happened to the pug then not been on here for a few weeks so haveing a catchup readathon

[The Moog]

Rich the face off is in the passenger side door pocket i think. Definitely dont have it with me

 

Glad you liked it. At 80+ on motorway is quite noisy but has really nice grunt.

[dollywobbler]

Nice. As Cavette says, door seals can be an issue, but so can the seals that should be around the window glass when its raised. Especially bad on the corners.

 

The only petrol BXs I've driven have been 16v versions - I'd quite like to try one of the lesser petrols.

[mnde]

Thanks for the nice write up Rich. I'm a bit embarrassed about the battery fail. It could indeed be the alternator brushes, but it's also worth checking all the battery connections are tight. Since getting the Megane, the BX was sitting with the neg lead removed from the battery to reduce any drain. I did start it up at least twice and ran it up to operating temperature to keep it fit and active. It could be that I didn't do the lead up tightly enough when Will collected it - and also since I changed the terminals for brass ones, I had to secure the smaller battery wires to the terminal in an elaborate (makeshift) bodge using crimped on connectors and washers under the wire clamp screws thus:

 

 

... so I'd check that these are all still tight. I only had plain washers, so it's probably worth getting some friction ones instead so it's more secure. Alternator brush fail will easily be seen if the battery warning light comes on with the ignition and the charging rate will of course be measured as nil.

 

BTW I should have said the stickers on the back window mean that you are now an official member of the BXClub and BXProject (and the CCC and G Section)... and you've got a Longleat Lion sticker too! GB sticker and BX sticker on tailgate are relics from my trip to Utrecht

 

Oh yeah - wind noise: make sure the sunroof blind is shut - it works its way open slightly!

 

I'll send you a PM later...

 

Mark.

[scooters]

Don't worry about the battery/charging - it is a 20 year old 400 quid car after all. I jumped it and checked the voltage across the barrery - 9.14V lights on drops to 4.2V. So low the idicators won't function - battery terminals are on tight. Alternator light isn't coming on BUT when the Yugo had the same problem (knackered brushes) exactly the same issue - low volts but no alternator warning light - still enough to run the car but not to run any auxiliaries.

 

 

Have taken the alternator out - that was fun - tricky 22ml nut to get to - and will strip off the VR and have a gander - probably replace the whole regulator.

 

Will - will check again for stero face no matter as my kitchen cupboard looks like a soucse landlord's garden shed there are so many old car stereos in it was going to fit the OMG AWSUM KENWD HNDS FREE FONE N STERYO from an old BMW I owned some years back - it has some handy input areas and the hands free bluetooth phone feature will be rather useful.

 

306 alternator won't fit -same voltage but internal regulator - all I could do would be to nick the brushes and they ain't in great nick anyway so looks like a Woods special

[scooters]

hmmm...

 

well the bruses are totally screwed - the leading one is very worn and only 1/10th the surface is making contact with the slip ring. In addition the slip ring is badly worn - a 0.5mm trench in the leading ring.

 

So I'm going to replace both the slip ring and the voltage regulatorthe rectifier looks pretty bad as well but if I replkace that then I might as well get a new alternator

[scooters]

Well - price for the components is £33 for the VR (inc postage and VAT), £15 for the rectifier and £7 for the slip ring (but not in stock) -

 

the excellent carparts4less will sell me a Lucas or Chinese equivalent for £72 quid - next day delivery

 

Bradgate motors have sold me a refurb for £30 + £12 VAT and postage - can't sniff at that eh? Delivery Friday so will be off the road till then.

 

I'll keep the old one and refurbish it when I have a minute/more funds

[cort16]

We've had two threads on this car now and still no picturz.

[scooters]

We've had two threads on this car now and still no picturz.

 

There's an excellent pic of a battery above!

 

I'll get some up tomorrow - too dark here now.

 

Will - I found the stereo facia - it was in the driver door pocket lurking

 

I need the car tomorrow so I have replaced the doegey alternator and dropped in a battery from a Daimler Double Six which should give me enough of the juice until the replacement alt turns up

[CreepingJesus]

It's looking nice, Scoots - I had a sneaky peek thro the fence after I put the car in for its' MOT! And yes, I has pic: i r paparazzi sneaky pic fiend...

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Scooters you should just automatically budget to have a new alternator fitted by a professional on every car you take delivery of

[scooters]

#CJ - lol - I wondered if you would see it, could do with a wash n wax after it's big drive - it's my first day back in the office for about 3 months. My poor buisness partner looks strung out on his last legs, he's been propping up the firm in my absense so the pressure is on me to get results - this means ROAD TRIPS - ideally two before Christmas and means I can hook up with a few shitters for a blether as well - Torsten, Skizzer, mnde, Moog etc. We must hook up for a jar after work sometime CJ. I like using the BX for commuting as it is so flippin comfortable and for some reason makes me calm behind the wheel (a bit like a Jag) whereas the Scoob and the Red Bastard make me drive more aggressively - this is NOT a good thing. The roadworks on the M90 and A90 are flippin tedious at the moment and add a good 30 mins on the driving time - took me a good hour this morning.

 

As the lights/indicators/stereo/fans etc all run off the non charginr XJ40 battery I don't want to get hooked up in rush hour in the dark so I'll scoot off at about 1600 today.

 

# Mr_B - yes...I have had extraordinary pisspoor bad luck over the last 12 months with alternator problems - firstly the 850 then the Yugo and now the BX - not a bad idea to budget for a replacement!!! mind you I'm now in good practice so it is one of the jobs I can tackle. In my defence the Yugo had a myriad of electrical gremlins I made the G8 mistake of assuming that the alternator was OK because it had been recently fitted by Bickle's Motoring Emporium, Purveyorz of Automotive Hengineering to the hgentry who had sourced it from the interweb for 0.99p. Not that I am blaming Nige as it worked fine until I had completed the 1000th mile. Amazingly enough I actually miss the Yugo but I know it is in good hands with Dan.

 

My automotive interests are worringly becoming tempted by big Citroens again...I have my beady eye on a CX at the moment - however, I'm not aftera Gti or Turbo. I also need to get sorted with a smarter car for work - I can't really turn up at a client's in the Red Bastard and I don't really want to use the BX for long schleck roadtrips - the presence of fossilised food, unidentified sticky patches, toys, the occassional bag with a used nappy in it , wellys etc together with the state of the shocks and the cost of petrol sort of rules out the Scoob. Mrs S saw Dollywobbler's 75 and thinks I should get one of those...if I can find a reasonably cheap and well maintained diesel in decent spec it would be an excellent option. Personally, however, Kinkersaab's 940 Sport Estate would be my Casse du tea any day of the week!!! and bugger the fuel drinking

 

All this however, remains pure fantasy until I get theis business turned round so - to motivate myself I am setting targets - whereas other business types reward themselves with holidays/Omegas etc.....my rewards are chod based starting with a new daily, then a big citroen and moving swiftly up the chod ladder to the absolute pinnacle of desirability: a Bernina Daf 33 with frilly edges, a different coloured door and an exhaust hanging on with a coat hanger!

[whitevanman]

Ah....a man after my own heart....hard work is rewarded with shite or new tools

[scooters]

'scuse the quality of some of the pics - Mrs S had the camera with her so I had to use a crappy Samsung phone

 

Well, the new alternator turned up this morning. Unwrapping it I discovered that it was different from the one fitted – rather than being a 12V 50Amp it is a 12V 70 Amp...both were fitted to the BX16 – the larger amp being of a slightly later date.

 

The scrap yard man had said that it would fit the car but the 70Amp is slightly larger than the 50amp – it is a bit wider and a bit longer.

the 70Amp is on the left 50 Amp on the right

 

It also has large nut style terminals whereas the old one has a spade connector on the D+ and a narrower B+ post.

 

It also has a 6 rib pulley instead of a four rib one (my car has a four rib alternator belt)

 

First off – disconnect the battery – I took advantage of this to check the battery tray which had some surface rust – as failing an MOT for a knackered battery tray s a real pain I gave it a good brush down and slapped a coat of VACTAN on it – it goes on as a milky white/blue fluid but dries dark on the rust and bare metal – VACTAN works as a primer as well as a rust killer – it is much stronger than the retailer available water based rust cures ans is essentially a concentrated version of the same – it is available on ebay by the ltr.

 

I also put a bit round the sphere mounts that were looking a wee bit rusted – it dries onto aluminium as a white powder

 

Anyway – first I removed the old alternator from the car.

 

The alternator is easily accessible in the petrol BX's – it sits at the offside front of the engine above the HS pump, You can't miss it. It is held in place with a large pin nut at the side closest to the engine and by an adjustable nut/bolt arrangement on the front side where it is bolted to the mounting plate – a 'C' plate that also mounts the HS pump at the bottom.

 

First task is to remove the belt shield – this stops you catching your clothes in the pulley and having your bonce clouted off the engine block as a result – it is fastened with two captive bolts:

 

 

exposed

 

Next step is to loosen the mounting pin – is a pig to get to you'll need a spanner – 21mm so larger than most sets it is also in a very awkward position as the proximity of the engine mount frame means you can't get a socket on it and the position of the bolts means that there is only one angle of attack for getting a straight spanner in – the ideal tool is a doglegged round spanner. I don't have one of this size (every other flippin size – so I resorted to an adjustable spanner.)

 

The position of the mounting pin nut:

 

 

 

The angle of attack with the spanner:

 

 

Once loose enough to use your fingers undo it and withdraw the pin as far back as it will go – this will free up the mount at the back of the alternator. Note that you will not be able to remove the pin completely due to the engine mount.

 

The mounting pin in withdrawn position

 

Next, remove the front tension bolt from the 'C' Mounting plate, you will need 2 spanners for this. The alternator will now move on it's axis and the belt can be removed.

 

Position the alternator so that it is sitting as low as it can go and then unscrew the B+ nut and remove the spade connector in the back of the voltage regulator. Don't remove these earlier as the B+ is very tricky to get to due to the position of the ignition module and a coolant hose.

 

 

The alternator can now be removed from the car – it may stick at the mounting pin so rotate the whole unit up and towards the engine and then lift it up and out towards you.

 

Refitting the alternator is the reverse of the above except that you fit the mounting pin before the adjuster on the 'C' Plate – don't tighten the mounting pin yet, get some tension on it so the alternator will move stiffly – then get a breaker bar – slot it between the engine block and the bottom of the alternator at the ENGINE side of the alternator – This will enable you to lever the alternator into position and hold the tension on the bolt whilst locking it into position.

 

Refit the belt and then lifting the alternator with your right hand and pushing down on the lever with your left get a good tight tension in the alternator belt – the belt should not deflect more than a centimeter or so when prodded firmly with a finger halfway between the alternator pulley and the crankshaft pulley.

 

Fit and tighten the adjustable nut when you have the appropriate tension on the belt, then, using the 21mm spanner – tighten the mounting pin nut using the angle of attack you used to undo it as above.

 

It might help to get a helper to keep the tension on the lever whilst you tighten the adjustable bolt.

 

When it is tight and in position, tighten the mounting pin bolt until tight.

 

 

Reconnect the battery and start the engine – check the voltage across the battery terminals with a multimeter - it should read in excess of 13V – 14-14.5 is a healthy.

 

 

 

 

Refitting a 70Amp alternator.

 

As mentioned above the 70 AMP alternator is ever so slightly larger than the 50 AMP one.

I has an internal Voltage Regulator

an internal fan

a wider pulley – 6 'ribs'

larger connection pins.

 

You will need to remove the spade connector and the B+ O ring connector which is too small for the larger alternator. Replace these with appropriate sized O rings – make sure your crimping is sound, ideally solder and wrap in heat shrink or insulation tape. A poor connection here can cause your charging system to fail – usually in the pissing rain on a February night so it is worth doing properly.

 

These need to be replaced with appropriate O rings

 

Give the O rings a good coating of Vaseline as you won't be able to reach them when attached to the alternator.

 

Mount the alternator on the mounting pin and hand tighten the pin. -

 

Attach the two wires to the alternator – the smaller one needs a 8mm socket – the larger one a 14mm socket – nb be careful not to overtighten these nuts as you can easily strip the threads – it is important to attach the wires at this stage – you won't be able to access them when the alternator is in position because of the lack of space.

 

Position the belt – NB if you are using the 6 rib pulley rather than changing to a 4 rib then ensure the belt sits IN THE MIDDLE of the pulley – i.e. rib belt rib – the two extra ribs are either side – this will ensure your belt is running perpendicular and won't shed itself.

 

You will find that the alternator is too wide and the adjustable mount is not aligned to the bolt hole on the alternator plate...get a soft headed hammer and GENTLY tap the adjustable mount towards the front of the car – checking frequently the position of the bolt hole with the mount – when aligned insert the adjustable bolt.

 

Use the lever method above to tension the belt, tighten the adjustable bolt and then the mounting pin nut as tight as it will go. Check the tension of the belt.

 

Refit the pulley cover – note that if you have a wider pulley fitted you will have to attach the cover by using a longer bolt to hold it in position to the off side side of the adjustable plate -

 

This picture shows how the cover is attached to the adjustable plate normally – if using a wider pulley the cover needs to be bolted here but on the OTHER side of the plate this ensures the cover will not rub on the pulley

 

you will be unable to attach this end of the cover as the hole will no longer align due to the slightly larger size of the alternator.

 

Note it is a good idea to cable tie the water hose at the rear of the alternator so it doesn't rub against the rear of the alternator

 

 

reconnect the battery, start the car and measure the voltage across the battery terminals with a multimeter, it should read 14+ Volts

 

It is a good idea to carry your spanners and a spare belt in case you have to re tension the alternator in the first few days. I would also carry a spare belt especially if you have fitted the larger alternator as belt wear will be greater than usual – a frequent squirt of Belt Slip spray can help here.

[scooters]

As I had the VACTAN out I used it to treat the very fine rust lines in the rain gutter and roof edge -won't look great but will stop futher damage over the winter and we'll see about painting that roof in the spring:

 

 

[whitevanman]

EEEKK...an adjustable wrench

[garbaldy]

I see you are slowly getting there we might get to see a pic of the whole car by about Sunday evening

[scooters]

I see you are slowly getting there we might get to see a pic of the whole car by about Sunday evening

 

 

there is one!!! - check the OP!

[scooters]

EEEKK...an adjustable wrench

 

I know - naughty eh? needs must!

[garbaldy]

I see you are slowly getting there we might get to see a pic of the whole car by about Sunday evening

 

 

there is one!!! - check the OP!

 

when did you sneek them two pics on

looks sweet i used to have a 1400 bx with the gearbox under engine set up was good off road.

[scooters]

Here's some pics of The Red Bastard - it will be getting its brakes bled with Gareth;s pump this weekend

 

 

nice bonnet rust

 

[dieselnutjob]

VACTAN works as a primer as well as a rust killer – it is much stronger than the retailer available water based rust cures ans is essentially a concentrated version of the same – it is available on ebay by the ltr.

 

Most useful thing I read on the Internet this week.

[scooters]

VACTAN works as a primer as well as a rust killer – it is much stronger than the retailer available water based rust cures ans is essentially a concentrated version of the same – it is available on ebay by the ltr.

 

Most useful thing I read on the Internet this week.

 

 

it's essentially the active product in Krust etc. It's the chemical company selling it undiluted and unbranded - Krust etc are typically up to five times weaker as the branded product is diluted to save money.

 

Heres another tip - don't buy made from concentrate fresh orange juice from the fridge in supermarkets - it is EXACTLY the same product as the one in cartons in the aisles - in fact - only by the BASIC or NO FRILLS type because that is exactly the same product as well - cost per lt of the basic stuff is about 54p - cost of the same in the fridge - £1.54p - the basic one lasts for months because of how it is packaged - the firdge one will go off in days.

[Guest Len H]

I like the 2 photos of the whole car and 94 photos of the alternator.

[Shep Shepherd]

I could do with a litre of Vactan myself. It will come in handy in so many situations involving rust, not least Volvo-based ones

[barefoot]

Come on Scoot, I've been practically frothing at the knob end waiting for pics of you BX

& all you cum up with is pics of you in latex & a Haynes manual pastiche...

I have to go to bed now, but I will not sleep for gently frothing