A debate about insurance

[dollywobbler]

That's why it doesn't work. A few people get very rich, and the rest of us experience economic gloom and wonder what on earth went wrong.

[504GL]

That's why it doesn't work. A few people get very rich, and the rest of us experience economic gloom and wonder what on earth went wrong.

 

Well tbh if you ask me, a lot of average joes are also to blame for this.

 

Boring story alert......

 

I used to work for one of the price comparison websites. Basically people would come onto our website, put their details in if they wanted a mortgage and we'd call them back and ask them a few questions like income, how much their deposit was and how much they were wanting to spend. Then if they fitted our criteria then we'd pop them through to a mortgage broker.

 

There were a few types of dopey tools you'd get

The ones who had no deposit, were earning sod all (10k lets say) and who wanted a 200k house with no deposit. We had to nicely tell these people that they would never be able to afford a house.

The ones who 10% deposit, were earning lets say 20k and were wanting to borrow 5 times their income. These people actually fitted within our criteria and went through. But you just know that if they lose their job they were monumentally boned.

Then there was the idiot who knew the system and would claim that they were self employed and couldn't prove their income so would have to be self cert. Back in early 2007 if you were thick, didn't earn enough money and you wanted to purchase a house which would be reposessed in no time when you couldn't keep up the payments, then you'd falsely claim you were self employed.

 

The big problem was these people never seemed to consider whether they could really afford their mortgage and they never considered that they could be the ones losing their jobs or that house prices would go down. These people, along with the banks, dodgy brokers (dealt with PLENTY of them) and the FSA are responsible for the crisis, not just the banks as people claim. Nobody forced people to take out these stupid mortgages.

 

Also rather funny were the customers I dealt with when I worked for a credit card company in 2009. We sold payment protection cover (for the record I wouldn't but it) and the classic excuses for not needing it were "I'm in the public service, I won't lose my job" and "Well if I can't afford to pay it then that's your problem". I didn't mind the people who just said, I don't feel that I need it or that they simply didn't want it, it was the ones who genuinely thought it was impossible for them to lose their job and that somehow there wouldn't be any repercussions if they didn't pay their debt back, who worried me.

 

Sorry for the boring story but it's a bugbear of mine.

[scooters]

I don't see why this is suddenly a problem. As with Moog, I was 17 in 1995 and faced with paying over a grand to insure my 957cc Fiesta Popular for a year. Pretty sure I had quotes for three times that. Fact is, young drivers are pretty bloody lethal, so insurance is always going to be painful at first. To be honest, my insurance bills didn't tumble until I turned 25 and then started owning only classics. I've had two claims - one fault (well, named driver was at fault) and one not-at-fault. Doesn't seem to have affected the classic premiums at all.

 

Yes and when I got my first car aged 20 insurance was relatively expensive but nowhere near the daft sums now quoted to youngsters.6, 8, and over 10grand for cars worth pennies. And we're not talking about 17year olds but young drivers...these quotes are hitting early twentysomthings.

 

 

And I don't buy this theory that the total cost hasnt changed. Yes and old banger cost more 20 years ago but the inflation in insurance premiums is far higher than the deflation in the old banger market. Then you need to add the cost of fuel and tax both of which are obscene.

 

Rip off Britain....we are mugs

[504GL]

I don't see why this is suddenly a problem. As with Moog, I was 17 in 1995 and faced with paying over a grand to insure my 957cc Fiesta Popular for a year. Pretty sure I had quotes for three times that. Fact is, young drivers are pretty bloody lethal, so insurance is always going to be painful at first. To be honest, my insurance bills didn't tumble until I turned 25 and then started owning only classics. I've had two claims - one fault (well, named driver was at fault) and one not-at-fault. Doesn't seem to have affected the classic premiums at all.

 

Yes and when I got my first car aged 20 insurance was relatively expensive but nowhere near the daft sums now quoted to youngsters.6, 8, and over 10grand for cars worth pennies. And we're not talking about 17year olds but young drivers...these quotes are hitting early twentysomthings.

 

 

And I don't buy this theory that the total cost hasnt changed. Yes and old banger cost more 20 years ago but the inflation in insurance premiums is far higher than the deflation in the old banger market. Then you need to add the cost of fuel and tax both of which are obscene.

 

Rip off Britain....we are mugs

To be fair food and a lot of other stuff is much cheaper here than back in Australia.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Nearly a month ago, a Mondeo pulled out of me at a junction and I T boned him in my 16 year old 318iS. Damaged wing, bumper corner, bumper and smashed headlight. But it is fully comp as it was actually cheaper. The car is worth about £600.

The following day - after having an estimate done (£1850) - a new Insignia turns up, paid for by the third party.

 

I will have had it a month by the time it goes back. They've agreed to give me £700 and I can keep the salvage which will taker about a day to fix as I have the correct colour panels here. The whole claim will have cost in excess of £5000.

 

That's why premiums are going mental. All they had to do was to talk to each other and on day 3 or 4, offer me £700 and get me and my old car fucked off.

 

In 1985, insurance on my 1977 Mini was about £350 which was a lot of money. Look at how most Civic/Punto/Corsa driving 17 year old shitwipes drive and it's no wonder insurers don't want the business. Some spiky haired little twat in a £400 Fiesta can do almost unlimited damage.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

1996 - Proton Persona 1300 - £180.39

2011 - VW Golf 1400CL - £201.34

 

I have to say that these were both surprisingly cheap, but I'm not sure I understand your question - the Golf is relatively much cheaper to insure.

 

Assuming that you agree with me that the £20 premium isn't enough to cover the additional Fire, Theft and Own Damage risk for the Golf, it should be obvious that the fact that it has been bundled with the compulsory third-party insurance causes the Proton driver to subsidise the Golf driver's premium.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Nearly a month ago, a Mondeo pulled out of me at a junction and I T boned him in my 16 year old 318iS. Damaged wing, bumper corner, bumper and smashed headlight. But it is fully comp as it was actually cheaper. The car is worth about £600.

The following day - after having an estimate done (£1850) - a new Insignia turns up, paid for by the third party.

 

I will have had it a month by the time it goes back. They've agreed to give me £700 and I can keep the salvage which will taker about a day to fix as I have the correct colour panels here. The whole claim will have cost in excess of £5000.

 

That's why premiums are going mental. All they had to do was to talk to each other and on day 3 or 4, offer me £700 and get me and my old car fucked off.

 

In 1985, insurance on my 1977 Mini was about £350 which was a lot of money. Look at how most Civic/Punto/Corsa driving 17 year old shitwipes drive and it's no wonder insurers don't want the business. Some spiky haired little twat in a £400 Fiesta can do almost unlimited damage.

 

Considering the cost of the Insignia and storage for your car, it looks like they would've been better off paying the £1850 to get it fixed within a couple of days.

[Polystratus]

Considering the cost of the Insignia and storage for your car, it looks like they would've been better off paying the £1850 to get it fixed within a couple of days.

 

On Radio 4 a few weeks ago there was news item about insurance - someone had their MINI rear ended , cost of repairs was £450, the car hire company charged something like £8000 for two weeks rental.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Unless there is any doubt about liability, I don't understand why people still use the credit hire mongs and don't just get a car from Sixt/Hertz/Banger Renting Company. Is it so hard to pay by credit card and reclaim the cost before you even get the credit card statement?

[Lacy]

Isn't a lot of the problem these 'Accident Management' companies that take all the stress and hassle out of your claim while charging the other parties insurance companies a fortune?

[Albert Ross]

My first car in 1984, was a 1965 Super Minx. Insurance was £139 Fully Comp, with a 1967 Humber Imperial Limo added on as a 2nd car.... those were the days eh?

Back to today, I am currently searching for a decent motorway banger for my Stepson, (23, new driver, passed his test a year ago, but has been ouit of the Country....) soon to return from Afghanistan. He is stationed near Chepstow, and we live "Oop North". 180 odd miles each way, so a diesel is best. I have only about £1300 to buy a car for him, so it's a fine balance. Group 9 seems to hold a lot a medium size diesels. I considered a Fiesta 1800 diesel. Pre-2002 models are around £2900 to insure.. for a 23 year old. Post 2002 1400 models are about £1900... obviously it's the crash protection for the passengers that drops the price. Trouble is, the car itself costs more. Thinking cap on at this point. What about a Skoda Fabia SDi?, painfully slow, wouldn't kill anything but a fly. £2600............ Hmm..... So.. I dropped the price of the car a little, to allow a little more for insurance. Focus? Yeah, they're safe. £2300... Astra G 1.7 Eco4... £1400!!!! Well....they're a little thin on the ground. But I reckon the "Old Man" image is the biggie here. I then discovered 02/03 Octavia and Golf SDi are ALSO down at £1400!!!! And the biggest surprise was a 2001ish Volvo S40 Tdi SE Lux with leather, alloys, A/C and all sorts of other extras was also down around the £1400 mark. It would appear that small cars are a con. I can get him into a premium spec recentish car for less insurance costs than a tiny car. Even the Lupo SDi is over 2K..... I was hoping to find a Honda Civic CTDi But they're like rocking horse shit, and nobody gets rid, and lo and behold we got one traded in yesterday. £2700 to me... 73K on an 05 plate. Trouble is, because it's a rarish car, the insurance is higher! Stay mainstream but outdated!!!

 

Wouls a 23 year old lad appreciate a 9 year old Golf Diesel? I suppose 50ish mpg might swing it.

[M'coli]

That's not unprecedented, even when I was young. Back in the mid-90s friend was looking to buy a R5Turbo and had a quote of over £1000 from his insurance. Just for a laugh, he asked about a R21Turbo - £500, fully comp. He didn't take a lot of persuading to go with the one with the leather and aircon!

[Bren]

It is obvious that a lot of parties are making ££££££ out of motor insurance claims.

 

Hire car companies, recovery, storage - the list goes on.

 

My own opinion on the cost of car insurance is that we are still dealing with aftermath of the easy credit era under new labour.

 

Too many people (including youngsters) buying brand new motors on tick. Because the credit was easily available for the purchase of the vehicle, no one noticed (or cared) about the insurance because that was all on tick. Bang it on a credit card. No problem.

 

Fast forward a few years, lots of claims (and parties wanting their cut) and we find ourselves in the current situation.

 

We have no proper regulation, same with the energy companies, they charge what they like, even when wholesale prices are dropping.

 

Only this week, Tesco announce worst trading results for 20 years. No sympathy whatsoever, they, along with morrisons / asda / etc. have been fleecing the consumer for years. Now, with things biting, the consumer looks at Aldi etc and realise they can get a better deal elsewhere. So they vote with their feet.

 

The chief exec of tesco put it down to the price of petrol. Not the case.

 

It is because they have been taking the piss for too long and joe public has wised up.

 

It's a pity we can't do the same about car insurance.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Who cares about the price of petrol? Try a kilo of Pakistani rice at FIVE QUID- I saw it at Morrisons last night (no doubt Tesco sell it at exactly the same price, as with virtually every product) and had to do a triple-take. The same type of rice is sold at Aldi at about 1.39.

[Pete-M]

The 'credit hire mongs' have to charge rates set by the Insurance company.

 

Doesn't matter that Avis or whoever will hire you a car for a couple of hundred quid a week, the Insurance companies use the credit hire folks and they really don't care if it costs them a couple of hundred quid a day instead as they set the rate, and it's credit hire so for some reason they don't care for the first month or two.

 

Absolute madness.

[scaryoldcortina]

It's madness really. I had a very minor my fault bump about 4 years ago - I nudged the back of a six month old Punto at a junction just hard enough to mark the bumper (I was driving a Mazda 626, she moved forward as the lights changed but stood on the brake because she heard a siren - was a police car going the other way) - we exchanged details at the roadside, I had a good look over the fiat to check the damage, and took some photos for good measure, it literally had a scuff on the paint about the size of a pound coin and no other damage. I explained that I was motor trade, and offered to have the car rectified at my cost at any local bodyshop, the girl driving the punto was fine with this.

 

A few days later I got a phone call from her - some friend of the family was an insurance assesor, and he said because the spare wheel was touching the back panel serious damage had been done and it must go through the insurance. This puzzled me a bit - I had checked the rear panel for damage and not only did the boot still open fine it hadn't even broken the clips that go between the ABS bumper and the edge of the rear panel/floor. I rang my insurers to warn them, explained I had photos of the "damage" and a completely undamaged mazda (didn't even crack the numberplate) and that I suspected that the claim was being inflated.

 

They didn't care. The car was already at a bodyshop, she had a credit hire replacement, final cost to them was over 5 grand.... for £100 worth of courtesy car and a quick spray and buff on the bumper. I even got a mate at a fiat garage to cost a brand new bumper, sprayed and fitted by a main dealer - £300.

 

But, that isn't the worst.

 

I was backing my recovery truck out of the yard into the lane, with a man watching for traffic. I stopped half out because there was something coming up the lane... then BANG!! A local horse trader of Irish extraction drove an Isuzu Trooper into the beavertail at about 30mph. He didn't brake, swerve or make any attempt to miss me so either he wasn't looking or he did it deliberatly. Truck was flung about 20ft sideways into my Audi 100. Wrote the Audi off instantly. Truck was undamaged. Trooper had a bashed nose and a puncture, matey boy is shouting that it's my fault. I told him to F*ck off, he called the police. They arrived, wound down the window and asked if either of us was drunk or injured (no) and then said it was none of their business and left again. We swapped insurance details. He put in a claim against me saying I reversed out of a SIDE ROAD in front of him leaving him nowhere to go, my insurers paid him £4500 without even checking the facts with me. I found out 8 months later when my renewal came through. Pikey tw*t hasn't even had the trooper fixed - he's still driving it around bashed up.

 

Also, I was once made bankrupt without my knowledge by an insurance company, but that's another tale entirely.

[scooters]

I recall the first insurance policy I took out..back in 91 for an 84 Indian sunny 1.3 GL saloon...brilliant car.

 

When the insurance policies turned up there was several sheets of paper to be kept in the glovebox and laid out as forms for recording accidents including space for witness statements.

 

These days it is obvious that in the vast amount of claims the companies just don't give a fuck any more.

[Quintus]

I guess car insurance for higher risk younger driver has always been a tad bonkers. My first car (1993 Nissan Micra) cost me £899 to insure in late 1999, but that was the cheapest quote by quite some margin. As far as I can remember, it did drop quite substantially in the following years as I was mercifully claim free.

 

Presumably the insurance industry in general is desperately trying to claw back losses from the myriad natural disasters this year.

 

http://www.waterbriefing.org/index.php/home/insurance/item/4426-2011-sees-highest-ever-insured-losses-on-record

[504GL]

Who cares about the price of petrol? Try a kilo of Pakistani rice at FIVE QUID- I saw it at Morrisons last night (no doubt Tesco sell it at exactly the same price, as with virtually every product) and had to do a triple-take. The same type of rice is sold at Aldi at about 1.39.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't a rice price comparison site?

[warren t claim]

Who cares about the price of petrol? Try a kilo of Pakistani rice at FIVE QUID- I saw it at Morrisons last night (no doubt Tesco sell it at exactly the same price, as with virtually every product) and had to do a triple-take. The same type of rice is sold at Aldi at about 1.39.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't a rice price comparison site?

 

We should all be concerned about the cost of oil, particularly the extra virgin olive variety.

[Lord Sterling]

The first car I managed to insure was a 1989 Rover 827Si manual. I was 24 years old at the time and the premium I paid for the year was just over £1500 which, seeing as my mates were paying about the same or more for smaller cars like Fiestas and Focuses, my premium seemed pretty reasonable.

 

To insure the same car now on a normal policy I'd be paying £2000+ at least.

 

I bought a Classic policy earlier this year. A couple of weeks after I bought the policy I was sent a letter stating the insurance would be cancelled. Apparently the policy should never have been sold to me in the first place. The insurers were rather sketchy at first as to why my policy was to be cancelled, then I was told the reason was because the underwriters decided to change the rules. Apparently underwriters can change the rules of play whenever they wish and once agreed anyone who is currently insured must have thier policy terminated.

 

Great innit.

 

I didnt mind as I took Dollywobblers advice and contacted Peter D James insurers, got a shocking quote of £230 (Classic policy) for the whole year. Glad I did.

[504GL]

Who cares about the price of petrol? Try a kilo of Pakistani rice at FIVE QUID- I saw it at Morrisons last night (no doubt Tesco sell it at exactly the same price, as with virtually every product) and had to do a triple-take. The same type of rice is sold at Aldi at about 1.39.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't a rice price comparison site?

 

We should all be concerned about the cost of oil, particularly the extra virgin olive variety.

 

According to a guy on another forum it's been a bad harvest this year so you're right

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Who cares about the price of petrol? Try a kilo of Pakistani rice at FIVE QUID- I saw it at Morrisons last night (no doubt Tesco sell it at exactly the same price, as with virtually every product) and had to do a triple-take. The same type of rice is sold at Aldi at about 1.39.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't a rice price comparison site?

 

It's nowt to do with rice itself. It could've been toothpaste or H7 lightbulbs. It's all to do with the big 4 retailers behaving like a cartel, which is precisely what the insurance companies do, but in this case there's no Aldi/local market to shop from if you don't like the cartel.

 

OTOH, petrol is really cheap and there is quite a bit of price competition going on (yes, it could be even better, but you don't get any retailer selling unleaded for 4 times the price you can buy it somewhere else). Of course, this situation is almost too good to be true, that's why the government slaps a 130% tax&VAT combo on fuel!

[HillmanImp]

[504GL]

Who cares about the price of petrol? Try a kilo of Pakistani rice at FIVE QUID- I saw it at Morrisons last night (no doubt Tesco sell it at exactly the same price, as with virtually every product) and had to do a triple-take. The same type of rice is sold at Aldi at about 1.39.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't a rice price comparison site?

 

It's nowt to do with rice itself. It could've been toothpaste or H7 lightbulbs. It's all to do with the big 4 retailers behaving like a cartel, which is precisely what the insurance companies do, but in this case there's no Aldi/local market to shop from if you don't like the cartel.

 

OTOH, petrol is really cheap and there is quite a bit of price competition going on (yes, it could be even better, but you don't get any retailer selling unleaded for 4 times the price you can buy it somewhere else). Of course, this situation is almost too good to be true, that's why the government slaps a 130% tax&VAT combo on fuel!

 

Yeah, because a rise from just over 90p to 135p in just 5 years is a good deal......

[Pete-M]

Yeah, because a rise from just over 90p to 135p in just 5 years is a good deal......

 

A year ago in September the average petrol price was 104.9, now it's just come down to 130.9.

 

Hmm, methinks we're being stiffed.

[504GL]

Yeah, because a rise from just over 90p to 135p in just 5 years is a good deal......

 

A year ago in September the average petrol price was 104.9, now it's just come down to 130.9.

 

Hmm, methinks we're being stiffed.

 

 

No no! It's fantastic value!

[gtd2000]

I don't see why this is suddenly a problem. As with Moog, I was 17 in 1995 and faced with paying over a grand to insure my 957cc Fiesta Popular for a year. Pretty sure I had quotes for three times that. Fact is, young drivers are pretty bloody lethal, so insurance is always going to be painful at first. To be honest, my insurance bills didn't tumble until I turned 25 and then started owning only classics. I've had two claims - one fault (well, named driver was at fault) and one not-at-fault. Doesn't seem to have affected the classic premiums at all.

 

Yes and when I got my first car aged 20 insurance was relatively expensive but nowhere near the daft sums now quoted to youngsters.6, 8, and over 10grand for cars worth pennies. And we're not talking about 17year olds but young drivers...these quotes are hitting early twentysomthings.

 

 

And I don't buy this theory that the total cost hasnt changed. Yes and old banger cost more 20 years ago but the inflation in insurance premiums is far higher than the deflation in the old banger market. Then you need to add the cost of fuel and tax both of which are obscene.

 

Rip off Britain....we are mugs

To be fair food and a lot of other stuff is much cheaper here than back in Australia.

 

The UK is very reasonably priced at the present moment - and it's been that way for a few years to be honest.

 

I'm sure one of my Austrian colleagues said his car would be £240 quid per month to insure in Austria but he pays £300 per annum in the UK - it's an S-class Mercedes.

 

I've often complained about "rip off Britain" in the past but thats not accurate right now....I'm happy to say!

 

Sure, we still get stuffed in many areas.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Yeah, because a rise from just over 90p to 135p in just 5 years is a good deal......

 

A year ago in September the average petrol price was 104.9, now it's just come down to 130.9.

 

Hmm, methinks we're being stiffed.

 

 

No no! It's fantastic value!

 

Of course it is, as long as you take the tax away.

[504GL]

A year ago in September the average petrol price was 104.9, now it's just come down to 130.9.

 

Hmm, methinks we're being stiffed.

 

 

No no! It's fantastic value!

 

Of course it is, as long as you take the tax away.

 

I will ask for my petrol to be tax free next time then. Thanks for the tip.