browntastic 604

[dieselnutjob]

It looks like I'm going to be offered a very early (1975) 604 automatic, which would suit me better as I don't actually enjoy driving my manual that much.
This auto has been off the road for a few years but sounds like it's in good condition.

- points
No MOT
Sounds like not leather interior
Peeling lacquer on bonnet/wings
I prefer my metallic beige I think

+ points
No more clutch pressing
Sounds less rusty than mine
Much lower mileage so will probably be nicer to drive

I wouldn't be able to keep both so if I want this auto I'll have to sell the current one.

I was planning to derust mine and if the engine ever blows up I could swap something else in.

I don't know what to think at this point.

I know I only want an early one (75-77)

opinions?

[trigger]

Got any photos?

 

I'd be cautious of buying any early french automatic car but I'm sure your more aware about this then anyone on here, Sounds interesting though!

[dieselnutjob]

they had a GM three speed transmission which is pretty strong I think

later 505s had ZF gearboxes that were more advanced but not as robust

 

maybe if I finally fixed the clutch on mine.....

 

the traffic round here is just awful though

[The Moog]

Are the Autos ok to drive? I have had some cars where the auto box has changed the whole driving experience for the worst.

 

Also does the MPG matter? Will it have an impact on the decision? If it is just down to drivability then would go for it. You can always swap interiors over before selling on.

[Pete-M]

I've only given mine a couple of quick squizzes about but the auto box doesn't seem too bad in 'em.

 

Also, according to the handbook... there's only 1mpg in town between the manual and auto, but the manual is 4mpg better on a run. The carb is better on fuel than the injection one, too.

[dieselnutjob]

library pic of a brown 604 (not the actual one)

 

who says you can't polish a turd.......

 

Most 604s are automatics. I suspect that might be because they are actually nicer to drive than the manual.

[nigel bickle]

Got to have a look -havent you? You'll forever regret it if you dont.

 

Make your decision then -when ''better informed''.

[RobT]

Got to have a look -havent you? You'll forever regret it if you dont.

 

Make your decision then -when ''better informed''.

 

+1, and then come away and think about it properly.

 

More natural to have an automatic in something big and comfy like this Id've thought. You'll find London driving more relaxing without that third pedal

[dieselnutjob]

yes I'll defo go and have a look

[504GL]

library pic of a brown 604 (not the actual one)

 

who says you can't polish a turd.......

 

Most 604s are automatics. I suspect that might be because they are actually nicer to drive than the manual.

 

My 504 (a '77) had a three speed auto and it was a joy to drive. Tbh I don't think that a manual suits a French car like a 504 or a 604. I'd always want a manual in one if I bought it. in fact my dad still has the auto transmission and a couple of others back in Australia. His garage is a veritable aladin's cave of Peugeot 504 bits

[dieselnutjob]

the 604 has a GM Turbo-Hydramatic 180 transmission (well early ones did anyway)

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic_180

 

I think the 504 has a ZF three speed box

 

Late model 505 V6 executives came with the ZF 4HP22 transmission which is much more modern and would give the equivalent of a "5th gear" to a 604. Would be an easy transplant too I think, except that it's 2 or three inches longer so would need a shorter torque tube (prop shaft). One of those would make a 604 a fantastic motorway weapon though.

 

Comment on 29-09-2011. Actually I think it might only be the turbo diesels that got the 4HP22.

[dieselnutjob]

drove something like 250 miles round trip today ( Ruislip -> Ipswich -> Clacton -> Ruislip ) in my 604
and had to call the AA

I stopped for petrol in Watford. Filled the tank, paid, and tried to drive off. No starter motor.
I thought that a wire must have finally dropped off but the AA man declared the motor knackered. There was 12V in the places where there should be 12V, so he said.
Drove to Ipswich and parked. Starter motor worked.
Had meeting. Starter motor worked.
Drove to Clacton. Starter motor not working.

Got a push and managed to drive home without stopping.

All to see this



So....

This is low mileage and the previous owner and the current owner both tell me that the engine runs as sweet as a nut (my 604 is a bit rattly).
It hasn't run for 2 years and didn't have a battery so I'd have to take a risk on that.

It appears a good bit more solid than mine. Rust that I found:-
Front valance not attached to wing anymore.
Small spot on sill cover.
Rear edge of one sill crusty, and near to rear subframe so MOT fail.
A bit of surface rust on the bottom left corner of the windscreen
Bottoms of some of the doors.

But still, this is the least rusty 604 I have ever seen.

My 604 has a split in the floor again, and both A pillars are quite bad. More rust in rear arch and boot floor. Basically it's only solid where the MOT requires it.

The drivers seat is lovely compared with mine. It's like a new car.

The front brakes are in bits but with freshly recon calipers in the boot.

Compare with my 604 which has a blowing exhaust, stuffed starter motor, stuffed clutch master cylinder, but good brakes and four new shocks....
oh an MOT.

Next point.

This brown 604 is a 1975. Look at the 504 style wing mirrors. This is probably the oldest 604 in the country and might be one of the lowest mileages.
And hopefully I will actually enjoy driving it.

The owner has no ££ and is only up for a straight swap.

Very tempted.

How do I get it home though? It's an auto so no A-frameing. Can I legally put it on a dolly backwards? Anyone got a trailer or something I could borrow? My 806 is a very good tow car and has a towbar.

[Pete-M]

Ring your local trailer hire place. The one I use charges about £25 a day to hire a trailer that'd have no problems with a 604.

 

If I was 200 miles closer, I'd happily drag that for ya.

[dieselnutjob]

I'd have to jetwash it on the way home or the wife would think I'm a f#&$ing idiot. She'd probably be right.

 

And it would be a right bastard to get it off the trailer and onto my drive. I'd probably end up putting a battery on it and firing it up. Good idea if not started for two years? I think a fresh sump full of oil would be better first. Suppose I could do that on the trailer....

 

I forgot to look at the transmission fluid (or engine oil). What a numbty.

[trigger]

Hang on, there was a 604 here in Ipswich today and I missed it?! Arsebiscuits.

[dieselnutjob]

Martlesham more specifically

there might be a return visit....

[dieselnutjob]

let's say I tow a car trailer with my 806

let's say I get stopped by the plod or vosa

they'll go by what's on the VIN plater right?

 

so how heavy a trailer am I allowed to tow?

 

 

the 806 apparently weighs 1595kg

[dieselnutjob]

just had a quote from shiply to move it

£136

[RobT]

Looks like it'll clean up nicely, and storage facility appears fairly decent so 2 years laid up in there may not have killed it. Cost me £100 to move a Metro from Gatwick to South London so £136 sounds reasonable.

[simmo]

let's say I tow a car trailer with my 806

let's say I get stopped by the plod or vosa

they'll go by what's on the VIN plater right?

 

so how heavy a trailer am I allowed to tow?

 

 

the 806 apparently weighs 1595kg

 

From memory the plate reads from the top as GVW (Gross vehicle weight) = max weight of solo vehicle inc driver and passengers etc, second stamp is GTW (Gross Train Weight/ all up weight ) = prime mover and trailer etc, although there may well also be a limited weight ratio between prime and trailer that VOSA will be more up on that the police. The third is front axle max weight not normally an issue with cars or vans, the last one is rear axle max weight, you could be ok on the train and and ratio but still be over weight on the rear axle. VOSA will normally allow a plus 10% before they bust you and even then let you shift loads around to comply with axle over loads. With a plus 3.5 tonne train weight you can also come a cropper if your driving licence does cover you above 3.5 tonnes.

[dieselnutjob]

most of the weight of a trailer is on its own axles. the only extra weight on the rear axle is the nose weight of the trailer, which wouldn't be more than 100kg or so I should think.

 

There is a vosa weigh bridge near my office (they pull trucks off the A1 and test them). Maybe I should drop in there and ask them.

 

A suppose a trailer would be about 300kg? A 604 is 1500kg so I would be towing 1800kg with a 1600kg vehicle which doesn't seem too bad.

 

My license is good for 7500kg because I'm an old fart.

[simmo]

I think some of the caravan websites will give the maximum car / trailer combo weights for each vehicle. The police generally leave you along if it looks right, i.e tidy trailer and properly secured car (they like to see a wheel strap on all the wheels)

 

Edit. Parker's gives the max braked tow weight as 1300kgs and I suspect a car trailer is more likely to be nearer 500/600 Kgs

[dieselnutjob]

1300 is a ridiculous limit for such a big vehicle

anyway I think vosa can only bust be for what it says on the vin plate, not for what it says in parkers

[simmo]

I agree, if it was me i'd just go for it and it sounds like thats the way your thinking as well

[Pete-M]

I used the Jeep to pull mine and it wasn't an issue, but I imagine your 806 wouldn't have a problem either.

 

The Heep has something daft like a 3.5 tonne rating for towing.

 

This may be useful. National Trailer and Towing Association guidelines

[barrett]

The owner has no ££ and is only up for a straight swap.

 

eh?

 

Am I being retarded, or are you saying he wants to swap his 604 for yours?

[dieselnutjob]

yes

he wants a 604 in his life

I want the least rusty early auto 604

[dieselnutjob]

I have decided

texts have been sent

the deal looks like it's going to happen

all I have to do is put the carpet back in and he'll take it as it is

then I'll have to arrange a trailer. I think that's the easiest way.

[Rod/b]

For £136 i'd say let someone else have the bother of towing it, that's not a lot of money for the hassle you'd save.

 

Only thing is does that include dragging your car there to swap it or would you drive up there and ride shotgun back?

[dieselnutjob]

there are a number of problems with the shiply option

1. I have to drive my 604 there anyway. The starter motor could easily fail when I stop for fuel (I'll have to)

2. I would need to get back by public transport

3. I would need to be here when shiply arrive (day off work etc)

4. I need to stop on the way home and jetwash it. Seriously I have to. The earbending I'll get otherwise will be unbelievable.

 

Though I suppose if the shiply guy will give me a lift back and stop for 10 minutes and let me wash it maybe it could work.