wuvvum Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 The discussion about the merits and demerits of the 166 on the Ebay Tat thread a couple of weeks back got me thinking about how much I enjoyed my two previous 166s. So I went on the Bay and put a cheeky bid in on this little beauty, and to my surprise I won it. It's a boggo spec 2.0 Twin Spark, but boggo spec on a 166 is still fairly plush - it has plain velour seats that aren't embossed with the Alfa logo, but it still has full electrics, climate control, built-in telephone etc. etc.. This particular one even has a private plate that sort of looks a little bit like it spells "Alfa" if you squint hard enough. It's actually in pretty good nick (although it badly needs a wash) with a small dent in the lip of the bootlid being the only noticeable bodywork issue - unusual for one of these as they tend to suffer from scuffs and scrapes due to the large expanse of unprotected metal. It drove back from Essex (with a stop off at Spottedlaurel's to pick up some magazines and have a go in the damaged (but still lovely to drive) Camry saloon) with no problem, and seems to drive as it should. I'd forgotten just how low-geared these things are (70 in fifth is 3,400rpm), but it seems to have managed to return high-30s mpg on the run back, which can't be bad for a car this size. And compared to the Justy, which is pulling 4,200rpm at the same speed, it feels like a model of high-geared refinement. Only issues I've found with it so far are a noisy OSF wheel bearing (bit of an arse from an expense point of view as you can't buy the bearing separately for these, you have to buy the whole hub, but should be an easier job than faffing around with a bearing) and a temperamental heater fan, although the heater does get warm and once the car is up to speed the flow of air from the external vents is enough to keep the screen clear. If I decide to keep it long term I'll probably do a cambelt and tensioner change on it as well - last recorded cambelt change was 55,000 miles ago, and although the book says 72,000 I don't think I'd trust the belt beyond 60K. Cambelt changes are a bit of an arse on these as you have to have a special tool to lock the cams in position (the drive pulleys are a taper fit so spin freely on the shafts as soon as you slacken them off), but looking on the Bay the total price for belt, tensioner pulley assembly and locking tool is only £75, so a lot cheaper than forking out for a new head. In the meantime I'm enjoying trundling around in it, and I'm starting to get used to driving a big car with a crap turning circle again after months of using the Innocenti and the Justy (and the Saab, which is long but narrow and turns on a sixpence so doesn't really count).
The Reverend Bluejeans Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I do like a 166. The V6's with the Homo leather are pretty much a cut price Quattroporte. Don't forget you've got a balance shaft belt on a 2.0TS as well. I've done a couple of these (both 1. and you need a dial guage to get TDC and the cam locks. If you have those, it's quite an easy belt to do. Tensioning the b/s belt is supposed to be an arse though.
Negative Creep Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I would like one but I'm not brave enough. That's not a LOLZ ALPHAS R SHIT post, anything of that complexity and age would scare me right off
ashmicro Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 You nutter. FUCKING great save. Autoshite Full Legend. 125 out of ten.
Owain-328i Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Lots of car for probably not much moneys!! Its butt ugly for an alfa though
Shep Shepherd Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Very nice! How much did you pay for it?
wuvvum Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Don't forget you've got a balance shaft belt on a 2.0TS as well. I was kinda sorta intending to reuse the existing balancer belt - is this a big no-no? I can't imagine that the balancer belt is under as much strain as the timing belt, and failure won't have the same OMG ENGINE EXPLOSHUN results as the cambelt letting go. I'm wondering whether I should fork out for a new variator as well - the one on there isn't particularly noisy, especially when compared to my last 2.0 TS which sounded like a Di Transit on a hot start, but a lot of Alfa specialists seem to suggest replacing them as a matter of course.
wuvvum Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Its butt ugly for an alfa though I will agree that the front end treatment is a bit of an acquired taste. Happily for me, it is a taste I have acquired.
wuvvum Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 How much did you pay for it?I'm keeping that under my hat. Not very much.
Shep Shepherd Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 How much did you pay for it?I'm keeping that under my hat. Not very much. I'll bet! I saw a magazine article few years ago that suggested that the 166 was only worth 12% of its original value after two years
flat4alfa Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Great buy! Yes pop a new variator and water pump in, it's not worth leaving it if you want to keep it for a while Stick the plate up on RegTransfers, it spells Ti ALFA. Give Laurence at Autolusso a ring on the complete hub, they've just broken two 166 I know of
wuvvum Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 How much did you pay for it?I'm keeping that under my hat. Not very much. I'll bet! I saw a magazine article few years ago that suggested that the 166 was only worth 12% of its original value after two years I just Googled "Alfa 166 depreciation" and it wasn't quite that bad - the figure was 14.4% after three years, which is still pretty shocking, although I have to wonder how many people actually paid list price for a new 166. I wonder if anything on the market now loses its value that quickly? Could one, for example, go out and buy a 57-plate Citroën C6 for £4,500? I suspect not, although it would be nice if one could...
Dead_E23 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I'd change that asap if I were you; Alfa subsequently changed the interval to 36k because they were so failure prone, and I would double definitely not reuse the balance shaft belt or the associated pulleys and tensioners - my 156 went over the bridge last weekend after breaking a balance shaft belt which had only been in there for 33k. Pity, because it was otherwise in fairly good shape and didn't even use oil like most do. The balance shaft belt is reportedly very often the one to go because it is only about half the thickness of the timing belt. The timing belt tends to scoop up the broken remains, destroying itself in the process. The remains of my belt luckily got trapped between the other side of the timing belt and its protective cover, then got dragged up to the top of the engine where they burst through the top of the cover and were partially ejected through the front. Unfortunately, the timing belt must have slipped whilst all this was going on because it sounded very much like a Simca afterwards and had about as much power. I suspect the cause of mine to be a pulley either seizing or disintegrating - there was a slight murmuring sound from that area after long journeys and just before the belt went it had developed into a squeak. I had been intending to investigate that, but it saved me the job. So - squeaks would appear to be very bad news for twinsparks!
wuvvum Posted January 29, 2011 Author Posted January 29, 2011 Hmm... That's going to add a few quid onto the price. Balancer belt and tensioner kit is another £80, and it looks like there's yet another special tool to tension said belt. Belt appears to be available on its own, but from what I've read about Twin Spark engines it's the tensioner pulleys that cause most of the problems... Re the squeaks: the 3-litre 166 I had made an irritating whining noise from the engine bay when revved, which sounded like a pulley rubbing slightly on something. Investigations to track down the source of the whine eventually found that the noise was being made by the cambelt, which was only 2/3 of the way onto the pulleys, gradually lunching itself against the timing cover - it had already lost about 5mm of its width. I got shot of it quick after that...
Dead_E23 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I priced the bits a few months ago and got to (iirc) roughly £200 for the timing, balance and aux belts and all the pulleys and tensioners but not the variator or the locking tool. My variator was ok, but noisy ones reportedly have few ill effects - I believe they'll carry on working for a long time whilst making a racket and even once kaput nothing goes bang. They sound like a pita to change anyway; iirc you have to remove one of the camshafts and hold it in a vice so you can unscrew the variator with a special spanner. Cobblers to that. I would have been quite interested to see how worn my camshafts were because the car didn't feel like it had all the power it should. I suppose that shouldn't have been too much of a surprise after 155,000 miles, but Alfa camshafts are pretty expensive so cobblers to them too.
Lankytim Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 There doesn't not seem to be many of these about, I think I have only seen two on the road. I think they look brill, especially the front!
Mash Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I love these but modern Alfas are far too scary for me, I've chickened out loads of times and gone Japanese instead I'd have one in metallic burgundy. Mmmmm.
Pete-M Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Good work fella. I'll have to try a 3.2 one sometime. I enjoyed my 164s, but the 166 in the right colour with that engine must be a nice event. Interior is bloody gorgeous in 166s.
nigel bickle Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Yup.That'll do. Ticks all the right boxs. Nice one Wuz
fiatdaft Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Good work fella. I'll have to try a 3.2 one sometime. I enjoyed my 164s, but the 166 in the right colour with that engine must be a nice event. Interior is bloody gorgeous in 166s. i don't think you would like the 3.2 pete !
meggersdog Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 The cam-cap bolts are too short for the locking tool.When I did the variator on my 147 I used a stainless steel rod with some tape around it as a rudimentary dial guage.The lefthand cam has to come out to replace the variator so the much larger front caps had to come off anyway and those bolts are longer.With the righthand cam locked I marked the crank and cam wheels with tipex.I made a variator spanner out of some angle iron,a 30mm holesaw and an 8mm drill bit.The variator is thread-locked on so with the cam in the vice between two pieces of wood I lightly heated the threaded area before removing the old variator.
The Reverend Bluejeans Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Don't forget you've got a balance shaft belt on a 2.0TS as well. I was kinda sorta intending to reuse the existing balancer belt - is this a big no-no? I can't imagine that the balancer belt is under as much strain as the timing belt, and failure won't have the same OMG ENGINE EXPLOSHUN results as the cambelt letting go. Reusing the BS belt is a big no-no. When they break, they get tangled with the cambelt and make an almighty mess. Also, when the cambelt breaks, it's not just a few bent valves. Very often you get a fractured top big end shell (or they get slightly flattened), piston fracture or the top ring gets nipped. Either way it's a sump off and the affected pistons and rods out.
The Reverend Bluejeans Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 The cam-cap bolts are too short for the locking tool.When I did the variator on my 147 I used a stainless steel rod with some tape around it as a rudimentary dial guage.The lefthand cam has to come out to replace the variator so the much larger front caps had to come off anyway and those bolts are longer.With the righthand cam locked I marked the crank and cam wheels with tipex.I made a variator spanner out of some angle iron,a 30mm holesaw and an 8mm drill bit.The variator is thread-locked on so with the cam in the vice between two pieces of wood I lightly heated the threaded area before removing the old variator. Sort of. The cam cap bolts are fine for holding the locking caps down (1.6 locking caps are different to 1.8/2.0), but can be a bit risky for removing the variator - but I know a guy who does it all the time without issue. Special spanner? A big pair of grips and a bit of cloth to avoid marking it, Bob's your Brother.....so I'm told - I've never changed one.You don't need tippex. A dial gauge down No.1 plug hole to get TDC (or very careful use of a long screwdriver with some masking tape around the shaft and a steel ruler across the top of the engine), cam locking caps on and slacken the cam sprocket centre bolts to they can be rotated slightly. Fit the belt and as you tension it, the cams stay still but the sprockets move to their correct position. Retighten the centre bolts (I use mild threadlock as well) and that's it. If you don't slacken the cam sprocket bolts and move the sprockets slightly to get the belt on, the cam timing might not be 100% right. Probably not far out but it's piss easy to do it right, so...... 1.6-1.8 Alfa cambelts are really, really easy. There's plenty of room around the belt to work as well.
Mat.T Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 You didnt collect that from Wakes Colne/Chappel did you? Looks very familiar if its the one im thinking of, i've worked on it! Fitted a complete handbrake cable and some lumps of suspension. Should be a bill from the 2+4 wheel centre if its the same car.
dollywobbler Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 Nice, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who's not keen on the looks. The headlamps are just too small. I don't like the back end either - or maybe I'm just a bit too keen on the 164... Still glad you bought it though! Looks may split opinion, but no-one can say it isn't interesting!
wuvvum Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 You didnt collect that from Wakes Colne/Chappel did you? Looks very familiar if its the one im thinking of, i've worked on it! Fitted a complete handbrake cable and some lumps of suspension. Should be a bill from the 2+4 wheel centre if its the same car.There's an invoice in the service history from April 2009 - doesn't have a name on it, but it shows all three handbrake cables and OSF upper wishbone, as well as a full service and swapping the NSR wheel for the spare - sound familiar? Small world if it is - and I'm surprised you remember an individual car that you worked on nearly two years ago!
Mat.T Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 That sounds about right!, as for remembering the car, the place I worked for wasn't exactly a main street garage! We mostly managed 2 cars a week and usually had some long term bike projects to work on. The alfa was owned by a local guy and it was the first time I'd properly had a good look around a 166 I really liked the interior nice engine note too. Also sticks in my head because we found the remains of several 'herbal' joints under the bonnet
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