Poorly GTi…what’s the diagnosis, Doc?

[NorthernMonkey]

1 minute ago, hairnet said:

has mrs monkey said no yet

or not read this yet

She’s pushing me to just throw whatever it needs to get it sorted as it’s pretty much her dream car. She’s already got my TPS portal open on her phone…

[hairnet]

massive vag fanboi in your house then

[NorthernMonkey]

Finally got it up on the ramp…it’s a heavy little bastard…and it’s clean, in fact very clean underneath except for a oil leak under the bell housing area that is definitely engine oil and not gearbox fluid…

I’m now starting to wonder if the lump of metal that was found on the top of the gearbox did in fact used to keep oil in the engine before being removed by bits of fuel pump making a bid for freedom.

I really need to pull off the timing chain cover and see what’s going on. I just hope there isn’t a big hole in the block somewhere otherwise it’s new engine time.

By the way, it’s got the cleanest alloys of any car I’ve ever owned!

[NorthernMonkey]

4 minutes ago, hairnet said:

massive vag fanboi in your house then

You could say that.

[NorthernMonkey]

Ah, that’ll be where the lump of alloy came from then! 😂

I was looking in the wrong place entirely. Presumably, bits of fuel pump got caught up between the chain and casing whereupon the casing came off worst.

The good news is that’s easily replaceable with the spare one @Dave_Q dropped off the other day but it still doesn’t explain the suspected lack of compression. I’ve just remembered I lent the tester to the lad next door and he’s not back in until tomorrow morning now so it’s just about home time, I reckon.

[Dave_Q]

It's a bit of an odd one as you'd normally get codes for cam timing when the chain wears, maybe the chain has actually jumped a tooth or two and is affecting compression? But would definitely expect a code for that.

[NorthernMonkey]

21 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

It's a bit of an odd one as you'd normally get codes for cam timing when the chain wears, maybe the chain has actually jumped a tooth or two and is affecting compression? But would definitely expect a code for that.

Exactly…that’s what’s confusing me too. Being a fairly old design of engine (in the scheme of things) I’m hoping it’s just jumped a tooth or two like you say. I really need to check the compression figures in the morning then remove the old chain cover and check the timing at that end of the engine.

At least that’s the oil leak sorted…

[comfortablynumb]

Have I missed something, or has the location of the broken off piece found under the car been identified yet?

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice...(Cooper)

Edited March 25 by comfortablynumb
Bloody autocorrect

[robt100]

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb said:

Have I missed something, or has the location of the broken off piece found under the car been identified yet?

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice...(Cooper)

Yes, 3 posts up about 50mins before you posted 🙈🫣

[NorthernMonkey]

19 minutes ago, comfortablynumb said:

Have I missed something, or has the location of the broken off piece found under the car been identified yet?

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice...(Cooper)

Oh yes…

 

In fact, if you look closely, you can see what I reckon is the end of the fuel pump plunger resting in its new vantage point.

[comfortablynumb]

Thanks guys, serves me right for skim reading 🤣

[SiC]

Hopefully that metal stoppage didn't cause the cam to snap 😬

[Dave_Q]

14 minutes ago, SiC said:

Hopefully that metal stoppage didn't cause the cam to snap 😬

They are both turning, hopefully it's just out on timing and hasn't damaged anything else but I guess it could have gone far enough out to cause valve/piston interface (sadface)

[NorthernMonkey]

8 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

They are both turning, hopefully it's just out on timing and hasn't damaged anything else but I guess it could have gone far enough out to cause valve/piston interface (sadface)

It needs a new cam anyway so best case, that and a new chain etc will sort it, worst case I need to pull the head off and stick some valves in.

Either way, I really need to get it sorted this week as someone wants to stick their plate on it and tax it from the 1st of the month 🤨

[NorthernMonkey]

Today dawned brightly so after a fulfilling breakfast of crunchy nut cornflakes, it was time to face the inevitable and start pulling the wee beastly apart.

A quick check of the compression figures proved my instincts correct.

There was none.

So check the timing from the crank to the exhaust cam and that’s absolutely fine…

 

Next, pull off the rocker cover and check the timing between the camshafts… 

Ah. In case you’re not sure what you’re looking at, the cams have an indentation between each pair of lobes in order for the timing tool to fit into. The exhaust cam on the right and driven by the belt is fine, as witnessed by the top pulley timing mark being fine. The inlet cam on the right however is approximately 90 degrees retarded with the indentations out of site underneath.

That, however expected, is not good. A few degrees out could be of minimal consequences valve/piston wise but that far, around nine or ten teeth on the chain, is probably sub-optimal… 😢

Next job after a cup of tea is to pull off the cam chain cover and see what delights await in there.

Come back after the break…

[NorthernMonkey]

Welcome back. Where were we? Oh yes…top end annihilation…

So, off came the cover. The good news is we found the collet thingy from the pump…

There it is, embedded in the VVT unit!

The pump lobe is, as expected, somewhat worn

 

and the cover has been a cover quite long enough.

More sparkly bits.

The chain itself is as tight and rattle free as anything though so what has likely happened is the VVT unit in the end of the exhaust cam has effectively moved on the cam. I believe there’s a locating dowel in there that’s probably sheared off but either way, the parts list is growing.

The next step is to loosen the bolt off and, assuming the dowel has sheared, move it forward enough to time the exhaust cam up correctly then throw the cover back on and try turning it over to do the compression figures again. I’m under no illusion that they’ll be ok but equally, I’m not going to jump in and pull the head off only to find the valves are fine for the sake of 30 minutes or so of testing.

[SiC]

5 minutes ago, NorthernMonkey said:

next step is to loosen the bolt off

Thoughts, prayers and all that. Good luck! 

[SiC]

Maybe a second hand head might be the more cost effective way to sort this one? Even if to scavenge the bits. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/396243104776

 

[NorthernMonkey]

Yep, thought as much…

[NorthernMonkey]

34 minutes ago, SiC said:

Thoughts, prayers and all that. Good luck! 

Aye, that was tight! Thankfully, I have a good t55 half inch impact bit that’s a very tight fit but I wouldn’t want to tackle it with anything less!

[NorthernMonkey]

24 minutes ago, SiC said:

Maybe a second hand head might be the more cost effective way to sort this one? Even if to scavenge the bits. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/396243104776

 

You’re probably right, that’s looking like the most sensible option 👍

[SiC]

Just now, NorthernMonkey said:

You’re probably right, that’s looking like the most sensible option 👍

At least these top ends don't generally give any mechanical issues, apart from the chain and fuel pump follower, making second hand parts a less potential risk. 

[Dave_Q]

£104 off with a discount code currently that head, got to be cheaper than Mrs Monkey's current TPS shopping list.

I guess it would be sensible to get the head off it first though just to confirm the bottom end is OK.

[NorthernMonkey]

I’ve got the timing tools turning up tomorrow that’ll make it a lot easier to put it all back temporarily with the cams in the right place, albeit minus the locating dowel for the pulley but bearing in mind it’s only to spin it over to check compression etc, it won’t be under any huge loads.

On the off chance the valves are ok, then there’s a pair of cams with pulley and carrier available for £140 but if there’s still a lack of compression or nasty noises etc, then I’ll get a complete head. Before pulling the trigger though, I’ll pull this one off to check the pistons and bores.

Assuming they’re ok, the only unknown then is the bottom end bearings but bearing in mind the larger bits of debris were located in the cam cover, I’m fairly confident the filter will have got trapped anything big enough to damage the main bearings.

I think that seems like a sensible plan…

[SiC]

Have you got a camera that can do down the plug holes?

[NorthernMonkey]

13 minutes ago, SiC said:

Have you got a camera that can do down the plug holes?

Yep…depending on the outcome of tomorrow’s compression test, I’ll have a look if I think the head can be saved but I’m honestly expecting at least a couple of bent valves.

For the sake of spending 10 minutes timing the cams up and pulling the fuel pump relay though, it’s worth a shot 😂

[NorthernMonkey]

I really, really need to stop buying any more non-runners for a while though until I manage to work my way through the list of casualties that have undergone triage and are now awaiting surgery in the yard…

That’s only three of them. There are twice as many already in the unit 🤨

[Dave_Q]

If anyone wants to join the broken GTI club, this little heap'o'trouble is currently in my watch list (no I won't be bidding)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135637000997

Maybe just a chain kit, maybe much worse.

[Forty45]

5 minutes ago, Dave_Q said:

If anyone wants to join the broken GTI club, this little heap'o'trouble is currently in my watch list (no I won't be bidding)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135637000997

Maybe just a chain kit, maybe much worse.

Saying failed turbo at end of description now.

[gm]

I'm finding this page a traumatic enough read with pics of loose components breaking through aluminium casings then you post a pic of a red bini convertible ! 

good luck