VWs - I dont get it....

[Alexg]

Am I missing something with VWs? I really dont understand what their appeal is. I find the interiors dreadfully dull, and the exterior seems to lack any sort of design flair or imagination. Yet, these aspects of the car get rave reviews from the motoring press (which ive given up on). The much prasied build quality isnt much greater IMO than rivals from Ford and Vauxhall. But the thing i'm most astonished by is the fact that they command so much money.

 

 

Check this, I just took in PX a 14k mile 2006 06 Golf 1.6 FSI 5 door 'S' model (as above). Its a povo spec with steels and trims, black door handles, plastic stearing wheel etc etc. Basically its as exciting as watching paint dry. It trades at £7000 Thats the same money as the similar spec Astra Club would trade on an 09 plate!

 

What am I missing? Or is it just, as I suspect, that the British buying public are tools??

 

Anyway, VAG are one of the many reasons I have fallen totally out of love with new cars. I used to read AutoExpress cover to cover, now I never even flip through. Thank god there is a forum for proper cars...

 

[Station]

What am I missing? Or is it just, as I suspect, that the British buying public are tools??

Yes.

[Mr Lobster]

VW have a very good marketing department and have managed to elevate cars that are on a par with most mainstream new cars to a position whereby the public think they are a premium product.

[Rocket88]

Build quality of the bits that you can't see. Put it this way, Bosch or Joe Lucas, which would you choose?. We run a 2002 Octavia 1.9.tdi auto, with 204k on the clock. The bloody thing is indestructable, . It's never broken down, failed to start, or otherwise acted up. The aircopn still works, the engine and box are fine, and it does 40 mpg to the gallon. Service bits are dirt cheap, and of good quality [we use TPS Southampton, genuine VAG parts]

Have a poke under the bonnet of a mid eighties Jag, and check out the quality of things like electrical connectors, clips etc, all the fiddly stuff. Then compare it with Mercedes bits. That's how reputations are won and lost, a car is only as good as the components is assembled from, and if you fit good quality stuff [even if it is more expensive] in the base build, yuou'll get far less hassle

[trigger]

I own a older shape 2000 model VW Passat TDi and to be fair it's one of the best car's I've ever owned, Very smooth, quite nippy, very good MPG, well built and comfy so i can see the appeal and i guess that's why their values have held so strong over the years.

 

It's now done 114000 miles, 15000 of those miles I've done in the last year and the only time it's let me down was when the original battery went flat over winter.

 

I'd quite fancy a newer shape Golf TDi but i couldn't afford to buy one, even a leggy 100k+ model is selling for over £6k, and strangely the older shape still sells for this as well.

[Rocket88]

VAG stuff will do high mileages better than almost any other make of car, with the possible exception of diesel 405s.............

[Mr_Bo11ox]

There must be something to be said for them. Its not just the british public, everywhere you go right across europe, VAG products are the default. Just ask any Polish/Czech taxi driver, or any well-heeled jodhpur-wearing home counties girlie taking a bale of hay down to the stables, or anyone in between, if you need some hassle free transport with a resonably classy image that doesnt make you look like a clever twat, the VW group are gonna be able sort you out satisfactorily.

[fiatdaft]

the engine MIGHT still be going in the 405 but everything else will have fallen to bits.

[VWPowered]

i own 80's VW's before they got into buying up skoda, seat etc and becoming huge, best of the lot really as with alot of manufacturers, modern stuff is crap til it gets to my budget of €100

[Pete-M]

I'm not a big VW fan.

 

I've had a few Golf GTis that I've quite liked, and I was slightly impressed with the A6s I've had. Funnily enough, one of the things that makes them feel good is the way the doors shut... One of the things I don't like is the stodgy feel which is, I suppose, a byproduct of all the insulation VW engineer in nowadays.

 

Think of it this way. VW are considered to be a kind of 'premium brand' even though the mainstream stuff is pretty average; slower than the equivalent Vauxhall, less reliable, comfortable or good to drive than the equiv. Ford.

 

VW aren't premium, you just get an interior that feels slightly better built than a Ford one in exchange for a chassis and engine that is less polished or enjoyable.

 

Vauxhalls are for people who don't want a Ford, but can't afford a VW. So they buy something that isn't as reliable as either, doesn't handle as well as the Ford, but is quicker than the VW. Unfortunately, the CDTi reliability issue hasn't helped them, neither has the fact that the Corsa handles like a greased weasel on an ice rink.

[VWPowered]

our 1997 Family Lugger 1.9TDI Passat has done 475,000kms

[Alexg]

A montego diesel will breeze that sort of mileage. There would just be a lot of gaffer taped bodywork

[Cavcraft]

+11.

 

I really don't 'get' VWs to be honest, my experience of them is exactly as you suggested, i.e no better than Ford or Vauxhall and I'd add no better in any department not just looks/blandness.

 

I will say that I'm sure VWs are capable cars that give years of pleasure/motoring to people, it's just I find them very over-rated.

 

Here's a thought though: Do you reckon they suffer the same 'image problem' that BMW owners have?

Only my opinion on the majority of VAG owners is that they're boring snobs who bought a badge because the adverts were good and they think it makes them (cars and owners) something special.

I even have a few mates who rattle on about them incessantly and consider almost any non-VAG car to be worthless shite.

 

Now that's NOT every VAG owner, some are sound and are down to earth, will admit their cars go wrong/rusty and aren't arseholes, but it does appear a hell of a lot are snobs.

[trigger]

I know a few people with Golfs that think their cars are the best things on the road, Slagging off everything else, That to me is just twatish but that's how blinded people are by the badge.

[Alexg]

Yeah the smug twatty snobbish people have a lot to do with it. My mate, who has a MK1 convertible, invited me to join him at Bug Jam. But I think i'll get more bored off people laughing and looking down on my Metro than I will looking at the cars

[Pete-M]

Here's a thought though: Do you reckon they suffer the same 'image problem' that BMW owners have?

Yup. When I worked as a VAG salesman back in the '90s I'd say that 50% of customers were 40+, professional and deeply dull. Lots were middle aged schoolteachers who were on their third or fouth poverty model Golf or Polo. They'd trade up when "What Car" or similar told them to, or when VW would finally standardise something. Around '98 there was a huge rush of 5 year old Golfs being chopped in for the last of the Mk3s because they finally had power steering as standard.

 

Nobody wanted to wait for the Mk4 Golf as it was an unknown quantity.

 

Around 10% of customers back then were reps. They didn't want Golfs and the 'modern' Passat hadn't been introduced. They liked the idea of the TDi engine, and wanted German build quality. They also expected some kind of huge discount, which they didn't get.

 

A few were self employed builders and the like who wanted Golf GTis, Corrados etc. Tended to be fanatical about keeping their cars absolutely like new. Also tended to go postal when they discovered that their immaculate, 3 year old Golf GTi was worth 35% of the new purchase price, as they'd been promised 55% by the sales staff..

 

Then there were the drug dealers. Hardly a day went by without some steroid laden brain donor arriving with a bin bag of money in exchange for a new Golf VR6 Highline, normally 5dr jobs. They'd normally trade in a 3-6 month old example in a different colour, pretty much always be registered to fake companies and the trade in would always have been valeted to within an inch of its life, have 20k miles on the clock, very bald tyres and bugger all oil in.

 

Some things will never change.

[VWPowered]

i know what you mean by alot of blinded people, but its not just VW owners there are these sorts on all one make/model forums, i like mine as its what i know had so ruddy many lol

[Pete-M]

i know what you mean by alot of blinded people, but its not just VW owners there are these sorts on all one make/model forums, i like mine as its what i know had so ruddy many lol

Oh, I'm not saying VW buyers are the gold medallists in the Dull Car Buyer Olympics. That has to be Nissan buyers.

 

I sold a white Almera 1.4 3dr base model to two lesbian schoolteachers. They had actually come to the garage actively searching for that exact spec. They traded in an immaculate, white, 3dr, Cherry with 35k on the clock and were happy when they got "£2000" for it*. "It's been a great little car that, but it's eight years old and time for a new one..".

 

Then there was 90 yr old Harry from Wigan, who wandered in one Saturday and bought identical Micras for all his grandkids who were old enough to drive, and enquired as to whether he could buy a new Bluebird for himself while he was at it. He bought 'em all on a Switch card. It was fun getting authorisation on the phone for that, £42k on a Switch transaction is unusual. He didn't buy a Primera to replace his immaculate 1979 Bluebird as he didn't like the colour combinations. "Don't you have a nice brown?"

 

 

*We were giving £2k off for no trade in, or £2k trade in allowance against any old shit. So if you gave us a car, you got fuck all for it. We didn't advertise the fact we'd knock £2k off anything anyway.

[Lord Sterling]

...is it just, as I suspect, that the British buying public are tools??...

You've answered your own question there. I dont get VWs at all and have driven a few of those new VWs particularly the popular Golf. They just dont feel special at all, in fact, they have no feeling at all. Apart from the 2.8VR6 I just dont 'get them'.

 

I must admit I do like the older varieties, like Sciroccos, Corrados, the first generation Bora and of course the VR6 variety of the Golf or Sharan but thats really about it. Even then I'm not overly enthusiastic about them.

 

Most of the British car buying public are image freaks, concerened with what people think about them, therefore, you see alot of people living beyond thier means, like Plasma TVs, and City Centre Yuppie flats the VW Golf is yet another staple in the diet of the up and coming.

 

Car magazine editors are no better, they come from this sort of ilk. Anything new is fabulous in thier eyes, particularly anything compact, sporty and German. They have no real experience of real cars.

[Milford Cubicle]

I liked my Mk2 Polo Coupe S, it was a pretty miserable thing overall though.

No brake servo because VW couldn't be bothered to modify it to fit an RHD car and thanks to the piss-poor dated front suspension design, the steering would flop about over bumps.

It was still quite fun to drive, gr8 4 lift-off oversteer. I think its main problem was being basically a first generation '70s supermini in the late '80s when most rivals were putting out much more modern efforts.

 

Another VW I've owned was a '95 Golf Mk3 diesel. The mechanicals seemed unburstable and it was quite nippy for a n/a dizzler, but it was a stodgy thing to drive and not all that well built.

Also more rusty than a Vauxhall.

The spec was utterly miserable too, with barely adjustable rock-hard seats set in a back-breaking position for me.

 

I haven't had much experience of later ones, but I think I'll be forced to buy something VW TDi-flavoured eventually as I won't touch common-fail motors.

I quite fancy a SEAT Toledo, but the one I've been in inherited the Mk3's rock hard itchy seats and didn't seem well put together either.

[j-j]

I reckon I 'get' VWs in that I agree with the above explanations - they are generally bought by those who are not car fans as such but want some dependable work tool for commuting or business use. If they are as reliable as is said (though who actually makes an unreliable car now (or even in the past?)) then that's that. However, if East Asian cars are equat or better in reliability then why don't they outsell the VW shower? I think it's 'old habits' as the only time that Golfs and stuff were probably significantly better than average would have been in the 80s but today is there really such a difference?

 

What I don't get is the BMW obsession. Sure, if you are a performance car fan and want a butch-looking RWD M-way beast, then the big engined, M-spec types are the non thinking choice sure if you want to spend that sort of dosh. But what about the small engined 3-series with zero equipment? You'd get 3 times the gear on board a same price Mondeo and it has a hatchback - surely the buyers of these are the true badge snobs.

 

And in response to years of "French cars, bla bla, shit..." I started collecting a series of photos of German cars broken down - the newer and more expensive the better! 7 Series BMW stuck in the centre of Great Western Road, Glasgow one evening surrounded by a panicking gaggle of 'gangsta' Asian lads was top of the list. S class Merc. that shut a street due to some sort of leakage was another highlight (posted up on here ages ago) but the Audi R8 broken down complete with RAC man in attendance was probably the cherry on the cake (£95K remember) as I floated past in my £700 Citroen

 

Unfortunately the top breakdown I have seen is the Fiat Punto. But these are just casual observations.

[Guest]

I reckon I 'get' VWs in that I agree with the above explanations - they are generally bought by those who are not car fans as such but want some dependable work tool for commuting or business use. If they are as reliable as is said (though who actually makes an unreliable car now (or even in the past?)) then that's that. However, if East Asian cars are equat or better in reliability then why don't they outsell the VW shower? I think it's 'old habits' as the only time that Golfs and stuff were probably significantly better than average would have been in the 80s but today is there really such a difference?

 

What I don't get is the BMW obsession. Sure, if you are a performance car fan and want a butch-looking RWD M-way beast, then the big engined, M-spec types are the non thinking choice sure if you want to spend that sort of dosh. But what about the small engined 3-series with zero equipment? You'd get 3 times the gear on board a same price Mondeo and it has a hatchback - surely the buyers of these are the true badge snobs.

 

And in response to years of "French cars, bla bla, shit..." I started collecting a series of photos of German cars broken down - the newer and more expensive the better! 7 Series BMW stuck in the centre of Great Western Road, Glasgow one evening surrounded by a panicking gaggle of 'gangsta' Asian lads was top of the list. S class Merc. that shut a street due to some sort of leakage was another highlight (posted up on here ages ago) but the Audi R8 broken down complete with RAC man in attendance was probably the cherry on the cake (£95K remember) as I floated past in my £700 Citroen

 

Unfortunately the top breakdown I have seen is the Fiat Punto. But these are just casual observations.

I'd say any French car made past 1998 is horseshit. MOTHA_WAT has a 2002 206 Crap Car, and it's shit. I have a 2006 Citroen C4, and it's shit. I had a 1997 Peugeot 306 TD and it was top. Etc.

 

Also, If I had a finger \ toe \ limb for every time FATHA_WAT has told me to buy a Golf, I'd need my entire body plus several Sellafield locals. Plus I'd be rich. There are two camps of VAG sufferer at work, the first being the wannabes who have been seduced by the marketing and truly think the A3 \ Golf is the best car of all time.

 

Then there are the people that actually own said sloppy VAG. Isn't it strange how (bar Lee from Claims with his pov matic A3) that everyone else thinks they're unreliable pieces of shit based on experience? Isn't it just.

[Guest]

I reckon I 'get' VWs in that I agree with the above explanations - they are generally bought by those who are not car fans as such but want some dependable work tool for commuting or business use. If they are as reliable as is said (though who actually makes an unreliable car now (or even in the past?)) then that's that. However, if East Asian cars are equat or better in reliability then why don't they outsell the VW shower? I think it's 'old habits' as the only time that Golfs and stuff were probably significantly better than average would have been in the 80s but today is there really such a difference?

 

What I don't get is the BMW obsession. Sure, if you are a performance car fan and want a butch-looking RWD M-way beast, then the big engined, M-spec types are the non thinking choice sure if you want to spend that sort of dosh. But what about the small engined 3-series with zero equipment? You'd get 3 times the gear on board a same price Mondeo and it has a hatchback - surely the buyers of these are the true badge snobs.

 

And in response to years of "French cars, bla bla, shit..." I started collecting a series of photos of German cars broken down - the newer and more expensive the better! 7 Series BMW stuck in the centre of Great Western Road, Glasgow one evening surrounded by a panicking gaggle of 'gangsta' Asian lads was top of the list. S class Merc. that shut a street due to some sort of leakage was another highlight (posted up on here ages ago) but the Audi R8 broken down complete with RAC man in attendance was probably the cherry on the cake (£95K remember) as I floated past in my £700 Citroen

 

Unfortunately the top breakdown I have seen is the Fiat Punto. But these are just casual observations.

I'd say any French car made past 1998 is horseshit. MOTHA_WAT has a 2002 206 Crap Car, and it's shit. I have a 2006 Citroen C4, and it's shit. I had a 1997 Peugeot 306 TD and it was top. Etc.

 

Also, If I had a finger \ toe \ limb for every time FATHA_WAT has told me to buy a Golf, I'd need my entire body plus several Sellafield locals. Plus I'd be rich. There are two camps of VAG sufferer at work, the first being the wannabes who have been seduced by the marketing and truly think the A3 \ Golf is the best car of all time.

 

Then there are the people that actually own said sloppy VAG. Isn't it strange how (bar Lee from Claims with his pov matic A3) that everyone else thinks they're unreliable pieces of shit based on experience? Isn't it just.

FATHA_WAT's New Car recommendations:

 

1. VW Golf.

2. VW Golf.

3. VW Golf.

4. VW Golf.

5. Another Citroen C4 (because their finance deals are 'amazing'. So amazing they'd give me one and pay me £165 a month as compensation? Didn't think so).

6. VW Golf.

7. Saab 9-3 (because 'Fords of Winsford do a great deal on them')

8. VW Golf.

9. VW Golf.

10. Ford Fiesta (the new one that looks like a wheeled scrotum sprayed in metallic piss, or that awful blue colour the shade of DVT.)

[dollywobbler]

Not just Volkswagens. Why do people spend hundreds of thousands on Aston Martins when you can get unreliable exotica for much, much less? Surely the Bond effect doesn't affect every car Newport Pagnell ever made?

[Pete-M]

Not just Volkswagens. Why do people spend hundreds of thousands on Aston Martins when you can get unreliable exotica for much, much less? Surely the Bond effect doesn't affect every car Newport Pagnell ever made?

I'm sorry but this comment is pure heresy.

 

I adore Astons (except for the DB7, which I never really understood).

[Cavcraft]

Possibly because AMs look class and still have that 'British supercar' look about them.

[Mr Lobster]

I quite fancy a SEAT Toledo, but the one I've been in inherited the Mk3's rock hard itchy seats and didn't seem well put together either.

I've got an '04 Toledo - the last of the saloons before they turned into some sort of frog shaped people carrier thing and I love it. I've owned it about 3 1/2 years and it has been mega reliable, it's quick and comfortable. Reasonable MPG on a run but constant round town work does mea it gets a bit thirsty.

 

I've driven new Golfs and they are ok but nothing special, certainly no better than the competition and not worth the extra money.

 

Agreed with Wat on newer French stuff as well - it does seem very, very fragile. I certainly wouldn't be keen on a Renault built after 2000.

[j-j]

Not just Volkswagens. Why do people spend hundreds of thousands on Aston Martins when you can get unreliable exotica for much, much less? Surely the Bond effect doesn't affect every car Newport Pagnell ever made?

I'm sorry but this comment is pure heresy.

 

I adore Astons (except for the DB7, which I never really understood).

DB5 for me! Like I could ever afford one.... I'll admit there's a bit of 'Bond - itis' going on but even so, it's just such a pretty car.

 

Also, bond has a lot to answer for as I dunno if I'd love S1 Lotus Esprits so much without the Bond submarine sequence! It was the first car I ever saw on TV that immediately prompted: "That's the car I WANT" kind of mania.

 

 

I'd say any French car made past 1998 is horseshit. MOTHA_WAT has a 2002 206 Crap Car, and it's shit. I have a 2006 Citroen C4, and it's shit. I had a 1997 Peugeot 306 TD and it was top. Etc.

Strange as French cars made from the 90s onwards tend more often than not to have all Bosch parts. I wonder if you have been unlucky with the C4 as my sister has had one for 4 years and it is 100% trouble free.

 

The mort horrible car I ever drove was a Black Mk5 Golf Diesel with a cream interior! Awful sluggish and with suspension that felt overdamped yet undersprung (as though they had made NO alteration between the diesel and petrol cars) Hard seats and lots of blind spots - there was just nothing to redeem it, Even if I went all 'librarian' and bought a Golf for investment and returns reasons, I couldn't live with something so devoid of any character, as a car fanatic, it would be painful!

[HillmanImp]

I don't know if its just by chance, but i seem to see more broken down Mk4 Golfs than any other car in winter. This is not recent but going back 8 or 9 years.

 

I know there are a lot of them on the road but there are a lot of other cars on the road too and i don't see them broken down as frequently when it cold. It could be that i have got it in my head that they break down more often and just notice them more.......Or is there something in them that is not good with the cold?

 

Was a named driver on a mates 08 mk5 GT TDi going up to Ben Nevis recently (repmobile as you say Pete), and it was ace, but I have nowt to compare it to. The equivalent Pug might be as good. It just seemed nice in comparison to the shite I normally drive. Every time I hit the brakes everyone nearly went through the windscreen as i am not used to them working that well.

[cms206]

I still don't get the VW thing. On the airport side we've had four Mk3 vans, two 1.9Ds and two 1.9TDs and a Mk2 1.6TD van. The highest I saw any of ours clock up was 140k-ish airport miles and it's still going, but it really is one of the most uninspiring vehicles I've ever sat my backside in. In my other job as part time bus/coach driver, we have a 52-plate Octavia 1.9SDi which has done about 190k (ex taxi) and feels like it's done every single one of em, with the added advantage that it drives exactly like all of the Mk3s Golfs I've driven. Got two mates who swear by Polos, never saw the appeal of them either despite driving several...

 

... I'll stick to Ford/Vauxhall I think.