An itch scratched, RFU buys a warm hatch** MG ZR 105 Trophy!! with ADDED OMGHGF and electrical faults!

[Split_Pin]

Holy mackerel! Not disappointed!

[somewhatfoolish]

On 07/08/2024 at 22:04, somewhatfoolish said:

A Rover 25 with maximum project drive misery and a OMGHGF. Or a Great Wall thing with no working parts at all, so essentially an ugly, rusting and not very practical shepherd's hut.

I claim a moral victory as it's a 25 in a frock. 🤣

[RoverFolkUs]

Just now, somewhatfoolish said:

I claim a moral victory as it's a 25 in a frock. 🤣

Yes you were almost there, including the maximum project drive misery because it is a MK2

[High Jetter]

2 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

I claim a moral victory as it's a 25 in a frock. 🤣

Closest, you should get a prize 😀

[RoverFolkUs]

42 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

Closest, you should get a prize 😀

Top prize being a sample of emulsified coolant to dunk your rich teas into? 

[RoverFolkUs]

Ok, time for a closer look! Thought I'd try and have an initial cursory glance over the beast to see what it's going to need. 

First up, the business end. Looks like a pretty conventional K-Series engine bay to me. Initial inspection has shown the obvious chaos unfolding in the expansion bottle area, as well as the obligatory cam carrier leak, but this will all be seen to during the head gasket replacement which I already knew about, so no dramas there. 

I will stand by my opinion that the K-series is an excellent engine if you maintain the cooling system. I first spotted the top hose has been saturated with oil and it's structure compromised. It's also been fouling the slam panel, so that needs to be replaced. The hose which runs along to the inlet manifold is also in poor condition, so I will look to replace that as well. On the subject of the cooling system, the heater control valve appears to be inoperative, stuck cold, although the cable operation is woeful at best (TADTS) - I can't seem to move the valve by hand, but I will investigate further when the engine work commences. 

Before I go too far running the engine, the seller warned me I was playing cambelt roulette because it's never been changed. I thought I'd take the cover off to check the condition and tension of the belt, no cracks visible and the tension seems ok so I won't panic too much, although it will of course be replaced when I come to do the head gasket. 

Once I had satisfied myself the cambelt wasn't about to snap, I thought let's fire it into life and see what works, and what doesn't: 

Ok, so to start with we have an airbag light and an EML. The former I knew about, the latter popped on just after it was dropped off! 

No problem, TADTS. Wires under the seat M9. 

Hmm, ok, that's a little bit more vague. I thought I'd start with the basics - check the air filter. 

Ok, that's not going to help! I think it's idling a little bit high and I think I might be able to hear an air leak, so I'll investigate further once I'm doing the engine work. 

Next up - electrical gremlins. 

Thought I'd go around and see what works, and what doesn't. List of faults that I could find were as follows- 

- Central locking not working

- Passenger door deadlocked, won't unlock or open

- Horn not working

- Rear wiper not working 

- Rear fog light not working 

- Drivers window not working 

- Front wiper intermittent setting not working (ok on constant)

To me, this screams out more than just failed components. 

I already know that the Pektron SCU's (body control module) in these can be troublesome, so I figured I'd get the module out and overhaul it anyway for the sake of reliability even if it doesn't solve the issue (which I'm sure it would) 

What an absolute nightmare getting the thing out, because it's an Aircon model it's situated *right behind* the cabin evaporator housing. A bit of teardown in the engine bay to slacken off the brackets to allow some flex in the A/C lines, and a strategically placed scissor jack to force the expansion valve into the cabin (🤣🤣) and after much swearing, I extracted it. This was made all the more difficult and painful because the passenger door doesn't open, so I had to sit upside down in the passenger footwell with my legs pointing towards the driver's seatbelt. Fun. 

Once I gained access to the connectors, the problem became apparent! 

Gah! That doesn't look friendly. 

Ok, so I might be in for a bit more than replacing the relays. But, I've found a repair service which sounds very promising, they'll create a backup, test and repair it if possible, or clone a new unit. The test and repair service is about £65, I expect the price will be discussed if more work is needed. Sounds fair and reasonable to me, so I'll get that sorted first since it's more of an unknown than the engine repairs. 

The last thing I'd want to do is go to the expense and trouble of sorting the engine and then find the electrical faults are impossible to fix without sinful levels of time consumption! 

So, in addition to the faults above, (EML, SRS lights, SCU fault, OMGHGF) - my list is currently as follows: 

Heater controls faulty, further investigation required. 

Air con kicks in but not getting cold, probably does "just need a regas m8" ... Although if the heater control valve is jammed halfway then that won't help. 

The clock LCD is knackered, TADTS, I'm sure there's a fix out there for it, need to investigate further 

Both front outer CV boots torn, not much of an issue to replace those. I did find some very cheaply priced complete outer CV joints with boots, might just get those if they are correct

N/S/F brake sticking, (seller disclosed, haven't checked myself yet) 

Coolant hoses, top rad hose in particular. 

So that is quite a big list, and it's before I've even had it up on the ramp yet. But it's all ordinary stuff for a car of it's age, so I'm not surprised. 

I'm going to sort out the electrics first, then assess it on the ramp, then create a plan moving forwards and get parts ordered! 

I think that's all for now!

[RoverFolkUs]

Ah, rubber. How could I forget. 

It's currently got a matching set of budgets, dated 2018. Well, it's currently sitting on a full size spare on one corner, dated 2005. All have plenty of tread, but I'm not a fan of the idea of elderly budget tyres. 

Tyres will be the last, if I keep the car. Or I might as well leave it up to the next owner and price accordingly 

Or I might look out for a set of grid spoke 16s with a more meaty sidewall... 

Time will tell on that front!

[RoverFolkUs]

Very pleased to be posting such a productive update so quickly. 

After finding the BCM (SCU) in such a sorry state I thought I'd look around to see what my options were. 

Initially I was drawn to a repair service for £65 however this did not take into account the water damage, only the defective relays. 

I contacted the very helpful man, Kev, at Remobilise ltd who recommended I put the money towards a new unit rather than my damaged one, which seemed sensible, so he sorted me a replacement SCU, brand new as far as I know, and cloned my old one to it, for a very reasonable £140. And the best bit was that I sent it to him on Tuesday afternoon and had it back by Friday morning! He even tested the key fobs and provided some helpful information about disassembly and reassembly. Updates along the way, couldn't have asked for a better service. So credit where due, shout out to Kev at Remobilise Ltd who specializes in these Pektron SCU's as found in MG Rover and LDV, he also does replacement key fobs. 

I aggressively cleaned the harness with contact cleaner, connected the SCU up and then remembered the SRS light. So, whilst I had the battery disconnected I thought I'd unplug the wires under the drivers seat, spray them up with contact cleaner and reassemble. 

With this sorted, I reconnected the battery, the ignition came on and the immobilizer happily disarmed. Started the engine and was pleased to find all electrics have restored order, front wipers now working on wash/wipe as well as intermittent, rear fog light, drivers window and horn now all working!

Switched the engine off, closed all the doors, and gingerly tried the central locking.. the doors all locked, which was a start because they didn't do that before, and crucially, they now unlocked including the passenger door which was deadlocked shut! 

It's hard to visualise these fixes in pictures but here's a photo of the dash showing the rear fog light tell-tale and the now extinguished SRS light! 

That's all for now, hopefully I get a chance over the remainder of the bank holiday weekend to get it up on the ramp and assess the mechanicals and write a shopping list for parts. 

[Supernaut]

That's a fucking winner on the electronics front!

Surely all the mechanical stuff will be a piece of piss for you.

[RoverFolkUs]

4 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

That's a fucking winner on the electronics front!

Surely all the mechanical stuff will be a piece of piss for you.

Thanks, with a bit of luck they will be! I wanted to concentrate on the electrics first incase there was anything a bit more sinister or incurable going on, so yes I'm definitely calling it a win!

Hopefully I've not used up all of my luck, although pulling apart a K-Series engine can always tempt fate just a little bit at the best of times anyway!

I do love the simplicity of these cars, how it's all mainly nuts, bolts and linkages rather than electrics and actuators all over the place 😅 so I'm looking forward to getting stuck in. 

[RoverFolkUs]

Well, things have progressed a bit and I haven't had a chance to update! The following post describes my tinkering session a couple of weeks ago:

After getting the electrics sorted, my attention turned to the mechanicals and cosmetics

Initial assessment on the ramp seemed to back up the seller's description of what it needed

First of all I sorted out the brake bind which was a seized caliper. I tried to free it off but it wasn't having anything so an exchange unit for £50 was bought to put that issue to bed! 

The rotten CV boots have been replaced with a pair of fresh ones. 

I always like brake drums to appear clean rather than rusty and scabby, so I ground them back to clean metal, primed, painted and lacquered them. Don't they look the part?! 

And I also had to refresh the lower fog light trims, as well as refurb the headlights and put some proper halogen bulbs in to replace the horrible LED things that were in there.

⬆️ Before 🤢

⬆️ During...

And after... So much better!

[RoverFolkUs]

Spurred on by such success I figured I'd best order up some parts for the elephant in the room - the head gasket.

DMGRS came up trumps for all of the associated cylinder head and timing parts. And, surprisingly, ECP for the service parts. 

They arrived earlier in the week so I got down to business with it this evening 

Eventually we were left with something like this! 

Yes, that's a very disturbing case of OMGHGF

One manky cylinder head awaiting cleaning and checking 

And the failed article!

Looking closer it's always satisfying to see the actual point of failure. 

For those unsure, the silicone should look like the top row, not all deformed like the bottom. 

So far, liner heights are looking ok but I haven't checked properly. They all seem to be sitting proud from the block, from what I've checked so far. 

Again, only a cursory check of the cylinder head seems to indicate some slight warpage although I will take exact measurements tomorrow. 

So far, so good, I would say! I'll take all the measurements and decide if there's any machining to the head required or work to the bottom end. Once I'm happy, it'll be a case of whacking it all back together and flushing the cooling system of all the crap and rectifying the bad heaters! Unfortunately it's become apparent that it's had K-Seal put in it.. not the end of the world, but it's just going to need some more flushing!

[RoverFolkUs]

It would appear I have forgotten to keep this thread updated! I'll pop up some posts in a roughly chronological order

The extent of cooling system flushing was very extensive, as evidenced here: 

No wonder the heaters weren't working! 

I decided this wasn't going to do so I removed every single pipe and hose from the cooling system and flushed it out. I replaced the entire heater hose assembly along with the heater control valve and "Saab valve" with a second hand set sourced from a breaker for a very reasonable £25. 

I removed the radiator and manually flushed it with a combination of boiling water and dishwasher tablets as well as a hose pipe to ensure it wasn't clogged. I attached a wet and dry vacuum cleaner to the inlet of the heater matrix and back-flushed it with a hosepipe to rid all of the emulsification from it. I checked the heater matrix and radiator for flow afterwards and I was satisfied there was no restriction and the water was now running clear. 

I also used a hosepipe and wet and dry vacuum cleaner in the cylinder block to flush through and suck out as much crap as possible. The benefit of a wet liner engine with easily accessible coolant jackets! 

Next my attention was turned to the cylinder head, getting it stripped down to check and build back up. 

That manky cam cover wasn't going to go back on looking like that.. 

Separated the cam carrier. Whilst this isn't an essential step of the process, it was leaking oil from the seam so it would have been madness not to address this at the same time. 

Did a leak down test on the valves. There was no real concern here other than some very minor seepage, I could have got away with it but I decided to do things properly. 

Prepped and painted these ready to go back on. 

[RoverFolkUs]

It would have been rude not to give everything a good clean while there was such easy access to everything. 

Time for the cylinder head teardown. I carefully* kept all the valves, springs, caps and collets organised... 

The valve seats weren't terrible, but you can see how they benefitted from a clean up and quick re-lap. 

Fresh set of valve stem oil seals while I'm in there obviously! 

Now, this is the point there was a minor* holdup. One of the valve collets went "pingfuckit" 

FUCKKK!!! 

So that caused a bit of a delay whilst I waited for DMGRS to send me a handful out... 

Whilst I was stalled on the cylinder head rework, I thought I'd turn some attention to the rot. 

It looks nasty..  but...

I would say it's fairly localised. Course of action to rectify this will be the source the repair panels available online that have been reproduced. 

[Matty]

Don't like lapping valves in on 8 valve heads. 16 of em? Fuck that 😄

[RoverFolkUs]

A week or so later after the collets had turned up to rectify my mishap, I set about cleaning up the cam carrier while sipping tea from my customized MG Rover mug!

Camshafts back in, with fresh front and rear oil seals of course. 

A nice bead of period correct GM branded anaerobic sealant!

And that was the cylinder head ready to be refitted. Somehow I seem to have forgotten to take that picture! 

All the new parts laid out ready to go back together. 

To summarise so far: 

Head removed and checked for warpage and indentation. This was ok, warpage was within spec and I elected not to go for a skim which seemed to be a popular albeit controversial opinion on these engines. I am of the opinion that you shouldn't take material away unnecessarily on an engine that's already prone to being a bit weak. 

Most importantly checked the cylinder liner heights and these were all equally protruding by around 0.003" as they should.

Head built back up with fresh valve stem oil seals, valves re-lapped, camshafts removed and refitted with fresh front and rear oil seals, cam carrier mating surface cleaned and resealed to rectify the oil leak. 

Engine built back up with new elastometer head gasket, head bolts, cambelt, tensioner and water pump, thermostat housing, inlet and exhaust manifold gaskets and both auxiliary drive belts all sourced from the excellent Discount MG Rover Spares. Also replaced the top coolant hose which had become compromised by the aforementioned oil leak. This was available brand new for £60 from a company called Motoclan

[RoverFolkUs]

With all the time consuming prep work out of the way, it all went back together very easily. 

On with the head!

Fresh water pump and thermostat housing. It was a no brainer to replace the thermostat housing while it was so easy to access. 

Before long it started to actually look like an engine again! 

Along the way it was built back up with fresh oil, oil filter, air filter and NGK platinum spark plugs. 

And the cooling system vacuum filled for the first of many flushes. 

The process here was to fill with a weak antifreeze mix and dishwasher tablets, run up to temperature, allow to cool, dump and flush. Repeated this process around 5 times until the header tank remained clean. 

Refilled with a slightly stronger antifreeze mix along with dishwasher tablets and I will leave this as a driven flush, carrying out another coolant change soon after it's done a few miles. 

The cooling system bled up perfectly with the vacuum refill tool (this is very useful for purging the cooling systems on these engines) - it ran up to temperature and the heaters stayed consistently hot. 

After I was satisfied there was no air in the system I fitted a new coolant pressure cap for good measure and plugged in the diagnostic scan tool to carefully monitor the coolant temperature and it was happily regulating it's own temperature with the cooling fan cutting in and out while I left it running at fast idle. 

People say bad things about these K-Series engines but if you do the job thoroughly and properly there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. I've gone through the cooling system, checked/flushed/replaced whatever I deemed necessary, and it now operates perfectly holding a good temperature, self regulating and crucially no pressurising. 

[twosmoke300]

I agree with the K series but can you imagine a customer paying for the hours you have spent doing a nice job of that ? 
 

[RoverFolkUs]

With the cooling system now operating as it should, my attention turned to the HVAC system. 

Thought I'd regas the A/C - it only bloody works! 

Up until this point I was having to manually select the heater temperature from under the bonnet as the cabin heater temperature selection dial was ineffective as is often the case on these so I stripped the heater control panel apart to investigate: 

I slackened the green cable at the control valve end, 

And discovered the plastic sheath had pushed itself out of the clamp, presumably due to the previously seized heater control valve. I managed to get onto that screw to loosen the clamp, pull the sheathing back through under the clamp and resecured it. Happily this now allows a full range of movement from hot to cold on the temperature dial, a rarity on any MG Rover vehicle! 

 

Spurred on by this free fix, I thought I'd take a look at the driver's window mechanism. It didn't work at all when I got the car because the previous owner had unplugged it. Reason being was because of the previously faulty BCU which would allow it to go down but not back up! 

With the BCU replaced, normal operation was restored however if you allowed the window to drop more than 95% of the way, it would not be able to lift itself back up and the motor would spin freely. 

I removed the mechanism to investigate: 

And found the final tooth on the run had stripped. My solution to this was to tack on a blob of weld to function as a "stop" for the motor to stop the window dropping too far. 

As you can see, it now nicely stops the mechanism and the window now does not drop too far into the door and is able to be reliably operated up and down. The window does judder slightly on its way back up due to the worn teeth on the mechanism but I'm not worried about that at the moment. 

Free fixes for the win!

This leads me on to the current state of play, I treated the car to a quick inside and out valet, and here's how it currently stands! 

What's next? Carry out the weld repairs to the sills, refit the sideskirts, and sort the headlining. Then I think* that's it!

 

[RoverFolkUs]

2 minutes ago, twosmoke300 said:

I agree with the K series but can you imagine a customer paying for the hours you have spent doing a nice job of that ? 
 

Oh absolutely, my point being they're quick to blame the engine but it actually depends on what you're willing to put into doing the job. 

Most would have chucked a new gasket on, not bothered flushing it to the extent I did and then when it wont bleed up properly or goes OMGHGF again promptly complain about how shit they are. 

It's a bit like the Ecoboosts of course, if they were serviced properly and had a thorough job done of the belt changes there would be less instances of them blowing up despite people thinking they've been looked after when realistically it's a result of corners being cut to keep costs down. 

[lisbon_road]

Looks good.  What sort of paint do you use for the drums and the aluminium engine parts you've painted?  Tempted to follow that example.

Very satisfying working through fixes on a fundamentally good car, thanks for taking the time to do so many pictures.

[RoverFolkUs]

2 minutes ago, lisbon_road said:

Looks good.  What sort of paint do you use for the drums and the aluminium engine parts you've painted?  Tempted to follow that example.

Very satisfying working through fixes on a fundamentally good car, thanks for taking the time to do so many pictures.

Thank you!

Admittedly it was only a quick going over and would have undoubtedly benefitted from some extra prep/degreasing and priming. However I wasn't looking for perfection, just to smarten it up. Looking up close there are some imperfections but I was just looking for quick improvements here. 

For the cam cover and exhaust heat shield I simply used a rotary wire brush to remove as much from the surface as possible, then I degreased the surfaces with brake parts cleaner and dried them off with an airline. Then gave both a couple of coats of this high temperature paint from Halfords: 

 

For the brake drums, they had heavy surface corrosion as to be expected so I used a wire knot wheel on an angle grinder to bare them back to solid metal. Once again I degreased them with brake cleaner, masked off the faces which the wheels mate onto (it's probably best not to paint this area) and then gave them a few coats of this wheel silver direct to metal. 

They would no doubt have benefitted from priming, as there is some rust staining coming through now, but again, I wasn't aiming for perfection. 

[Skut]

It’s nice to see a Trophy SE. I’ve had my base spec Trophy since 2017.  It’s been off the road for a year while I procrastinate over rust repairs.

You can get a new plug and play clock off Aliexpress that looks better and I believe has the option of interior and exterior temp readouts if sensors are installed. I tried to add a link but Aliexpress is having none of it so here’s a screenshot.

 

 

 

 

[warch]

Excellent! I also like the 200  25 ZR(they rebadged it you fool!) and have absolutely no fear regarding the K Series which is very much a victim of websperts. The HG replacement is hardly a big issue either (I did one on an MGF once). As I understand it the engine is very popular in tuning circles, and these were quite popular entry level rally cars.

I remember people criticising the 25 when it was still a current model for just being a rebadged 200. Of course this means its small, fairly light and quite old hat, all of which are positives. 

[captain_70s]

I really like these MGs.

When I was at college around 2009 these were pretty much the fastest hatch you could get for the engine size.

[RoverFolkUs]

On 27/11/2024 at 15:13, Skut said:

It’s nice to see a Trophy SE. I’ve had my base spec Trophy since 2017.  It’s been off the road for a year while I procrastinate over rust repairs.

You can get a new plug and play clock off Aliexpress that looks better and I believe has the option of interior and exterior temp readouts if sensors are installed. I tried to add a link but Aliexpress is having none of it so here’s a screenshot.

 

 

 

 

I absolutely love these in yellow, I'd have it any day over the blue 

Many thanks for the shout on the clock! I've seen various fixes online for the clock such as heating the ribbon for the LCD with an electric iron (!) but if I have no luck with that I'll look into getting one of those

[RoverFolkUs]

On 27/11/2024 at 15:45, captain_70s said:

I really like these MGs.

When I was at college around 2009 these were pretty much the fastest hatch you could get for the engine size.

As to be expected from the 1.4 it's a bit sluggish pottering around the middle of the rev range, but it's nippy enough off the line, and certainly starts to move from 5k rpm onwards for what it is!

[RoverFolkUs]

Right, the elephant in the room - welding! 

I've been dreading this but it needs to be done - I thought I'd tackle it and get it done before I make a start on the Rover.

I sourced the repair panels online which someone has gone to the trouble of producing. They've definitely saved a lot of fabrication time although I had to modify them a bit as the fitment and shape is slightly off. 

The panels are pretty thick and overkill compared to the wafer thin MG/Rover quality* metal but they've made a nice enough job. I wasn't aiming for perfection, just something half reasonable. 

I'm dreading the filler and paint work... 

Also prepped and started to tack in the repair section for the front of the sill. As you can see it was localised rot so I've cut out the bad, treated the surrounding area and patched in a panel from the offcut of the rear repair panel. 

[RoverFolkUs]

MOAR

Looks like I forgot to update on the nearside - 

Sill end filled and sanded 

Primed

Painted

And lacquered. 

Looks bloody decent in person for a rattle can job, camera is doing no justice. A light dust of fade out thinners, wet sand and a machine polish later and I can't see the blend line. Final result will be posted in due course

Rear inner closing panel coated with Waxoyl over the paint for some additional protection under the arch liner. 

Front plate cut out, spliced and welded in, and painted. This is under the side skirt, so doesn't need to look pretty, just be solid, which it is. 

[RoverFolkUs]

Finally had a chance to repeat on the offside. It was a lot more isolated which made for an easier job. 

Poke

MOAR POKING 

Chop

Chop chop chop

Treat bare metal with rust converter 

Allow to dry, then coat with weld-thru primer (forgot to photo that bit) 

Test fit, trim panels as required 

Sizzle sizzle sizzle 

That's all for today! 

Finish grinding back, fill, prime and paint next