project 1979 Citroen GS resurrection (and other shite) burn baby burn 🔥 help and advice needed - French electrics

[Marshall2810]

21 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

Awesome stuff! and Awesome work! I have been throughly enjoying reading how you have fettled this back into health, its especially satisfying to read, knowing how generally oleopneumatic citroens give people the fear and how many dont get the love they need

Thanks LBF, really nice to get comments like that and pleased you like it and I enjoy seeing your updates on rev too! They're certainly fragile things but when you get your head around it it's OK. Just very very different and a real survivor.

21 hours ago, wesacosa said:

top work, I can't even get enthused to do an oil change in this weather so fair play.  Glad to see such good progress on such a cool car

Cheers wes. I know tell me about it, my mate was keen, I was less so but just thought may aswell get on and do a bit. Wasn't even sure we'd get to stage, I've felt a bit like this sometimes but citroens seem to do that to you 

 

 

[Sunny Jim]

Congratulations! Glad you're now seeing progress with all the work you've been putting in. Must have been a great feeling going down the road finally (and stopping too!).

[Marshall2810]

2 hours ago, Sunny Jim said:

Congratulations! Glad you're now seeing progress with all the work you've been putting in. Must have been a great feeling going down the road finally (and stopping too!).

Thank you mate it's been a struggle sometimes but that's the nature of the beast. I don't have the skills of a mechanic but I'm keen to learn and my mate has been incredibly kind and helpful. 

Inspiration for us all! 

 

Yes I am comparing reviving a GS to the moon landing, it really seemed that impossible at times 😂

[Sunny Jim]

[Marshall2810]

4 hours ago, Sunny Jim said:

I definitely thought it would be easier 😂

[Marshall2810]

After a week of mot failure and then buying an utterly shagged focus,  the GS surprisingly offered a little ray of sunlight for the weekend. 

Nicer little jobs today which started with turning her around now the brakes were working. Much easier now we have space and can see what we're doing with it pointing towards daylight!

With it jacked up we did the last clip on the underside. Now that's done I can get the carpets, seat belts, mats etc back in place and out the way and back together. 

The handbrake pads were fitted but still needed adjusting up and that's all sorted now. With that done the heater control box can go back in place. 

It's never started well from cold but always starts with easy start direct to carb. We thought it could be dodgy fuel pump so with the hose off we quickly confirmed the fuel pump was fine. It still wasn't wanting to start so had a quick look at the filter in the front of the carb and was proper cruddy.

Cleaned out, we then took the top of the carb

Had a look at the float bowl and used a syringe to extract the fuel. Whilst the bowl was full (which was good) it was also gunky (not so good).

We also adjusted and lubed the choke cable and increased the idle speed a little. 

The battery went flat so fitted my better spare one and she started up and ran alright so we'll see if that's improved things. 

The new bonnet release cable was next and now opens and closes as it should so she can get her face back on eventually.

Also had a look for the small oil leak on right hand side of the engine. Only small and definitely engine oil. After 15 minutes running was only a small patch above the rocker cover and another drip in line with the drive shaft.

Amazingly it wasn't the rocker cover leaking but looked like it was coming from the distributor gasket above the rocker cover. Nipped the two nuts up so hopefully that's sorted. There'll always be something but it all helps. 

The alternator/wiring is the last big issue remaining but of course means that the battery isn't getting charged. That's for another day but lots of good stuff done 

[Marshall2810]

Well out of darkness cometh light. The pug failed it's mot last week on a few bits which needed sorting so my local citroen guy got me booked in.

I helped and we got all the issues sorted but it took us most of the afternoon.

Anyways, retest today and....

🎉🎉🎉🎉

thats a weight off and nice to have one working car back in the fleet. 

Whilst getting the 107 repaired, I said about the GS and the work we had done. With the battery not charging I said we've not looked into it but possibly it's alternator/voltage regulator/dodgy wiring related. He said I'd be best looking at the regulator as they're known to fail often. They are also the same as in a 2cv and a little box that sits near the battery. So as well as a much healthier pug, I left with an alternator and spare voltage regulator from their racing 2cv to help narrow down our GS's issue which is a huge help!

the three amigos....not for long. The focus from hell has a torrential oil leak and reckon it's the front crank seal that's gone. As well as the sill work, I could cope with doing a new clutch master cylinder, and could even cope with a new oil seal for buttons if it fixed it. Well still runs fine but now the instrument cluster has gone, not a fuse, wiring or anything obvious so it's self terminated and I think it'll be only the 2nd car I've ever scrapped. Ah well, it's had every chance. 

Didn't have too long but was excited to see what would happen if I swapped the regulator over on the GS.

My old one is was pretty crusty, to be honest I've not even tried to clean it up yet but just put the new one on which looked different but still has the same three connectors underneath. 

fired her up and she started and idled alright.

Got the multimeter out and had 12.5v with engine off and 14.2v with the car idling now which is brilliant. Looks like we've found the issue then.

Ignore the exhaust blowing, it'll get sorted

We've still got a small weep on the distributor gasket/spacer. It's Ben suggested I make one or bodge up with hylomar. A new one is £24 which seems  lot for what it is. I'll probably end up getting one to sort it but I'll keep looking in the meantime. It's about 9cm wide, I've not taken it off so don't know exact size but looks like this:

And lives here

Next up will probably be getting some of the interior bits back in place and maybe bumper ends back on and look into the distributor leak.

[plasticvandan]

Looks like a phenolic resin/tufnol spacer/seal so presumably does some heat dissipation too,hylomar may well stop it if it's not cracked 

[Marshall2810]

32 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

Looks like a phenolic resin/tufnol spacer/seal so presumably does some heat dissipation too,hylomar may well stop it if it's not cracked 

Yeah it's hard to tell without getting it apart. It's officially called a spacer and that's where the oil is coming from. I've been told there is another gasket which may be the one thats leaking as the spacer isn't designed to be oil tight, it's just a spacer/heat barrier as you say. The one I need may be this one....

 

[Marshall2810]

Bit of a boring update but it's been nice to have a good sort out today. Making the most of the decent weather, doing odd jobs and drinking tea. 

Started off by getting the front and back carpets in place, trim sorted, seatbelts bolted down and hoovered out. 

Much tidier

Then cleaned up some more of the inside, dash etc which came up better. 

found the little gearbox plate and glued it back into place

and also the disc from engine bay which had come off think it's the trim/paint code on it so handy to keep safe.

Also found what (I think) is the original battery clamp so got it cleaned up, kurust and painted

the bumper ends aren't in bad shape overall but the brackets on the ends are so made some more in thicker metal

and painted them

Offered the grille up temporarily for the first time since I got it and still think it looks awesome

then started cleaning up the bonnet underside. The lip is very crispy so that will be a fair bit of work sorting that eventually.

It's good to see the pile of parts, nuts, bolts and screws reducing in size! 

[Westbay]

Coming alone nicely, very nicely ...

[Marshall2810]

Today we fitted the distributor gasket to try and cure one leak.

Wasn't too bad and it went back in tighter than it came out which is a good sign. Hopefully that's one leak sorted. 

The citroen then decided to come over all French and 

 

That's the altonator gone up in smoke. It worked briefly with the voltage regulator changed so assume its the altonator at fault, its certainly fried now.

We had one from a 2CV to try and if lucky might get us out of trouble. Surely you don't have to take the front off the car to take the altonator off? It's a shitroen so of course you do, brilliant. 

Predictably we're not lucky and it didn't fit, way off in fact but it was free so nothing lost. 

I've emailed a local firm who rebuilds altonators and may be able to help, otherwise it's probably £200+ from chevronics or suchlike to get one that does fit. 

one step forward, three back and rapidly getting bored of this bollocks now 

[Marshall2810]

Right I'm a little confused by this. The alternator fitted is listed as for a GS which is a Paris Rhone A12 M5 model. It has its own voltage regulator as does several other alternators I've seen listed as suitable for the GS. Mine has a separate voltage regulator ducellier box type thing with 3 pin connector. If any citroen lickers out there know, surely it's not normal to have 2 voltage regulators or is it a French thing? Ive tried a 2CV one which didnt fit but seen some Ami ones may be suitable. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

.

[jonathan_dyane]

I think the GS might have had a separate voltage regulator but the GSA had one integral with the alternator. There certainly shouldn't be two!

[Marshall2810]

43 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

I think the GS might have had a separate voltage regulator but the GSA had one integral with the alternator. There certainly shouldn't be two!

I'd have thought that too but being a late one wasn't sure especially when that one came off. Chevronics list a few for the GS and all have built in regulators so waiting on an answer from them. I'd imagine it should have an external one, can't see why anyone would retro fit one....

[Stinkwheel]

As per my reply on other thread, I've never seen a GS or A with an external voltage regulator, but that does look very factory. Im wondering if for some reason you have an AMI Super wiring set up on that car or something equally odd

[Westbay]

https://remanx.com/

 

I've had very good results (and service) from these folks , BUT, they don't list alternators  as such, might be worth a phone call re the regulater side ... 🤔

[grogee]

Sorry to hear the electrics have 'done a French'. But despite having to remove the front end, an alternator (if you can find the right one) isn't a big deal in the scheme if things. 

Good luck with it, great thread and you're doing the Lord's work. 

[Marshall2810]

8 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

As per my reply on other thread, I've never seen a GS or A with an external voltage regulator, but that does look very factory. Im wondering if for some reason you have an AMI Super wiring set up on that car or something equally odd

It's definitely a thing, and haynes confirms it's normal on GS.

 

8 hours ago, Westbay said:

https://remanx.com/

 

I've had very good results (and service) from these folks , BUT, they don't list alternators  as such, might be worth a phone call re the regulater side ... 🤔

Cheers I'll bear it I mind. 

I've seen this one on ebay and the company has confirmed that it is externally regulated so could be the one I need.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266766077113?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=js0oZrLxR5C&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=q0u7CbdYTNC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I've left another message at Chevronics (they must love me) to get some guidance. 

8 hours ago, grogee said:

Sorry to hear the electrics have 'done a French'. But despite having to remove the front end, an alternator (if you can find the right one) isn't a big deal in the scheme if things. 

Good luck with it, great thread and you're doing the Lord's work. 

Thanks grogee! Yeah ordinarily it isn't but finding the right one is challenging and it's more what else is wrong. Furthermore, someone has bypassed what looks to be the starting relay (next to the battery) with a bridge which is nice and hard wired another one to the starter solenoid. This relay doesn't appear on any of the wiring diagrams I have for the GS. 

The wiring diagram in the haynes shows the regulator next to the battery but not a relay 

Currently it starts so it isn't an issue but the starter shouldn't be permanently live. It'd be nice to get rid of the bodge and get things straight again but one step at a time. 

[High Jetter]

The thing with bodges like that is that someone has done it for some unknown, but relevant to them, reason. Are you in touch any previous owners who may know why it was done? You might need to solve the problem they had as well, which I'm sure you can.

[Marshall2810]

1 hour ago, High Jetter said:

The thing with bodges like that is that someone has done it for some unknown, but relevant to them, reason. Are you in touch any previous owners who may know why it was done? You might need to solve the problem they had as well, which I'm sure you can.

Very true. I think these are very very old bodges. The frustrating thing is the wiring diagram isn't helping that much but we'll get there one step at a time.