Warrenty Advice

[Mr H Sceptre]

Hi folksA friend of mine recently bought a motor which has come a cropper, and the garage she bought it from are saying that the warrenty will not cover the repairs. This is the info she has given me:"Nope, not brand new. Bought second hand from a garage and is 03 reg. The clutch was worn which caused the bearings to overheat and break which knocked out the camshaft sensor which brought the car to a standstill. Warrenty people are saying its all down to wear & tear but we're arguing with them!"I'm just trying to pull together to collective knowledge of you guys to see if I can give her any advice. Anyone know much about warrenties, or what course of action she can take?Help needed!CheersHS

[FredTransit]

When did she buy it? All traders have a legal duty to sell goods that are fit for the purpose they are intended for. Even if they didn't give a warranty, the car still has to be roadworthy and last a reasonable time. It's the sale of good act 1997 (was brought up on here very recently). Clutches don't wear overnight, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for your mate to ask for a repair, if they refuse, go to trading standards.

[Mr H Sceptre]

Just finding out a bit more info.....

[boobydoo]

I would say you are on a hiding to nothing I'm afraid. A classic case of "proximate cause", a popular term in warranty-speak!! It was the wear on the clutch that caused the bearings to overheat and break which caused the sensor to fail. Therefore , wear was the ultimate cause not mechanical failure.If the car was bought very recently I would expect a goodwill gesture from the garage, but over 3 months......no.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I would have very low expectations of any used car warranty i'm afraid. Is it like one of these warranty packages provided by an external company, or is the supplying garage warranting the car? If the former i'd have a 2% expectation of success, and if the latter I might raise that to 15%.

[Mr H Sceptre]

So if, for example, the clutch gave up the ghost within say a month or 2 of purchasing the car, would that have any bearing on things ie fit for purpose etc etc?

[dollywobbler]

Interesting question. Clutches do wear out so I reckon they wouldn't pay out, but they would if a slave cylinder failed or something.If a clutch is slipping badly enough to overheat, there's an element that says that perhaps this should have been noticed by the driver?

[boobydoo]

Just spoken to a friend of mine who has been selling cars since year dot. He says that the garage is obliged by law to repair the car if the fault makes the car "not fit for purpose" and happens within 6 months of purchase. I always thought it was three, but it would seem this was extended a while back.I would suggest she looks on the trading standards website...it would seem that it is clarified on there..P.S Another friend in the trade has also just confirmed 6 months is the period of seller liability. Looks like she needs to not take no as an answer!!

[Cavcraft]

I always thought stuff like clutches/brakes and exhausts etc would NOT be covered as they're consumables but I stand to be corrected.Daft sounding question but did she complain the clutch was slipping or causing problems as soon as she got the car, or within the first day or two?If not they may argue that as it wasn't presenting any problems when they had it they sold it in good faith and that the faults are not covered by the warranty.Has she got a copy of the warranty and can she let you know exactly what it says?

[Rocket88]

Just spoken to a friend of mine who has been selling cars since year dot.

 

He says that the garage is obliged by law to repair the car if the fault makes the car "not fit for purpose" and happens within 6 months of purchase.

 

Does that include consumables? If it does, it's bollocks. It would mean that if you wore a couple of tyres out within 6 months, you could claim for replacements. I could see a good lawyer driving a coach and horses through that particular arguement...........

[Mr Lobster]

Generally speaking, used car warranties are not worth the paper they are written on I'm afraid.If they can classify it as wear and tear they won't want to pay, irrespective of what the law states. I've no idea how they'd make that law work either tbh - I've seen a few cases of people buying a new car and burning the clutch out within a couple of hundred miles - you can't expect the dealer to be responsible for that.

[boobydoo]

Hmmm, I just did a Lynn Faulds Wood type investigation and phoned Trading Standards.Basically, if the consumer feels that they have recourse to recompense for a fault on a car purchased from a trader, and it is within 6 months of purchase, the onus is on the TRADER to PROVE that the Sale Of Goods Act has NOT been broken. If it is longer than 6 months, the onus is on the consumer to prove the Sale Of Goods Act HAS been broken.The age, mileage and price paid for the car will be factors in someone deciding if the car was , under the terms of said Act deemed to be:a. fit for purpose, b.of merchantable quality orc. "as described".As an "03" plater , depending on the mileage, I would suspect that it would not be hard for the trader to justify a worn clutch as being acceptable on this age of car.

[Mr H Sceptre]

For reference, the car was purchased 4mnths ago, and the clutch went last week.Cheers for all your help with this by the way chaps.

[Cavcraft]

I fear the worse in this case then Mr S. I just can't see them standing the cost of this after 4 months.It'd be nice if the garage offered a token one off payment towards the cost but there probably isn't much chance of that by the sound of it.

[Guest]

I fear the worse in this case then Mr S. I just can't see them standing the cost of this after 4 months.It'd be nice if the garage offered a token one off payment towards the cost but there probably isn't much chance of that by the sound of it.

+1. Sorry Mr. S, I think Cav's right on this one. 4 months is too long and there's too many variables in the equation for her to get it repaired gratis.

[Guest]

Four months on a consumable item?If I was the person supplying the warranty, I'd tell her she's got the wrong number and give her the one for the motor factors instead.Probably why I'm not in any position to supply a warranty.

[FredTransit]

I would say 4 months is too long too, in the first month OK, I would say the dealer knew about it. But not knowing how your mate drives or what mileage she's doing, it's hard to tell. It would be nice if the dealer would make a token offer, but I bet they won't.

[Ratdat]

You'd only really be able to tell if a clutch is worn if it's on it's last legs and either the pedal is right at the top or it's actually slipping. If it's a self adjusting system you probably wouldn't be able to tell anything until it actually starts to slip. Unless the seller has sixth sense I doubt they could have predicted the clutch would be worn out in four months time so I fear they may not have much comeback.But apart from that, what's all this about bearings and camshaft sensors? That all sounds a bit fanciful as I've never known a worn out clutch do anything other that cause a failure to proceed. I'd love to know what the details of this are. It sound like the car has been driven with the clutch slipping like buggery and if that's the case the other issues are not the responsibility of the vendor.

[meggersdog]

What has just been said.It is fair wear and tear on a clutch after four months.Also what RATDAT says does seem strange to cause a bearing and sensor to go aswell

[sporty-shite]

Sorry, OP, but I'm with the others, too.

 

I would guess that the car has been driven with the clutch slipping like buggery, which has caused a DMF to melt it's bits and slip the crankshaft (as opposed to camshaft) sensor out of time, thus causing the breakdown.

 

Therefore, even if you went with the previously stated six month rule, it would probably still be argued that the driver should stop the car as soon as a fault presents itself, in order to prevent any further damage.

 

The absolute best, I would think, would be a payment equal to a proportion of the clutch based on actual mileage and projected life of an average clutch.

[Gompo]

What car was it?

[Parky]

Slightly off topic the clutch went on my Leon. Two years old with 12000 on the clock. Clutch itself was vibrating, turned out it was a shot centre bearing whcih broke up and mashed the flywheel. Expensive in other words. Dealer apologised profusely and wanged in a new clutch and flywheel free of charge! That behavour gets repeat business although had he blamed me for it, the car would now be sitting on the trade-in area of the local Honda dealer. I would definitely argue the toss here, arm yourself with the exact wording of the trading standards six month rule, and have a reasonable conversation with the dealer. If he wont play ball or show any sympathy whatsoever, escalate it. Eventually he may decide its worth paying the 4/500 to get it sorted and you off his back. Or he may be within his rights to refuse of course, in which case its a harsh and unfortunate occurence...

[wilko]

It's not beyond the realms of possibility for a buggered clutch to damage the crankshaft sensor - but I can't see how it could bugger a camshaft sensor Not sure about the legalities, but I assume the position is different between a car bought with a "used car warranty" to one bought without? Or is it?