'FolkUs' Family-Bike Xsara Picasso...

[maxxo]

8 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

That's a good point, it's certainly holding up better now compared to its right wing competitor, the Zafira and left wing competitor, the Tacuma of which there are virtually none left!

Even still, I see far more Xsara Picassos about than Renault Scenics (the MPV one) which I would consider to be it's direct competitor at the time

Among all the neglected, rusty sheds out there, I see far more tidy Picassos than Zafiras. Citroen must have done something right with them

I've also noticed a lot of parts for them are pretty cheap

As a side note, I noticed today that the Aux belt is  exposed through the drivers side wheel arch, I don't think that's how it should be, surely should be a guard there.. I'll get a picture when I'm next near it

they have quite a following for what they are, certainly a lot more than their competition

i can see them being classics, certainly the early ones are almost there

as i always say, quite simply, they are very good

[RoverFolkUs]

7 minutes ago, maxxo said:

they have quite a following for what they are, certainly a lot more than their competition

i can see them being classics, certainly the early ones are almost there

as i always say, quite simply, they are very good

Well they're certainly an iconic piece of my motoring history. Citroen managed to pull off selling a car that looked like an egg! Had it been Ford or similar, they'd have been laughed at probably..

I think so too that clean early ones will be sought after before long. Among the owners groups I see people quite frequently offering to pay good money for a clean, low mileage petrol Xsara Picasso

[RoverFolkUs]

So on a bit of a whim decided to wash and polish the Picasso today. Very pleased with how it came up. 

Annoyingly the horizontal dent along the door is perfectly in line with the crash reinforcement bar on the inside so I can't get behind it to push it out. With the door card removed, access was perfect to most of the outer door skin apart from that area which was sods law 

So will need to think of another plan to pull that dent out. It's a bit too deep to just slap filler over it really. I don't really want to get another door as the colour match will be off since the car has been painted on that side before, (I believe, due to the heavy orange peel) 

Anyhow, my mains powered machine polisher went phut so I decided to use a vintage 12v one I got from the car boot sale and a bottle of Halfords finest* polish. It was ok, and did a decent initial job but it's going to need another going over with a mains powered polisher and some decent polish when I get some 

Here's a before and after pic. You can see the tiny surface scratches and bush rash that have been removed, but it didn't touch any of the paint transfer. 

Before:

After:

It doesn't change the fact this car needs extensive paintwork repairs to make it mint, but at least I now know what I'm up against. 

Unfortunately by the time I was done I couldn't get a decent picture of the whole car that would give it justice, but take my word that apart from the deep scratches it has come up really well as I thought it would

[RoverFolkUs]

Forgot to mention this yesterday...

Call me a saddo, but I inadvertently discovered that it is not possible for the wipers to stay parked halfway through their sweep. 

Unlike most other cars where if you take the key out of the ignition before the wipers finish doing their thing, they will stop halfway, no, not on the Picasso. They have engineered it so the wipers still park themselves even after you remove the key from the ignition, presumably due to the BSI staying awake for a short while 🤦

Only Citroen!

[Amishtat]

On 5/15/2022 at 9:49 PM, maxxo said:

they have quite a following for what they are, certainly a lot more than their competition

i can see them being classics, certainly the early ones are almost there

as i always say, quite simply, they are very good

I'll happily second your last sentence. In need of a roomy machine after the deeply disappointing Transit Connect shat the bed again  we picked ours up from  a local garage last winter (elderly owner had passed away,widow didn't want to see it sitting on the driveway apparently) and it's been a great investment.  Spacious, comfortable,decent economy for a petrol auto and quite a bit more thoughtful design than I'd have expected. I freely admit I expected to dislike it but it's certainly grown on me and been an impressively useful tool,well worth the £250 asked for it. Still plenty of them knocking about locally too,which says something.

[RoverFolkUs]

I said there wouldn't be any updates for ages... I lied! 

I've sussed my previous headunit debacle. 

Set to installing my new bargain JVC headunit today. It came with the ISO adaptor, so all I had to do was remove the old adaptor from the faulty Sony unit and plug it in. 

It worked, except for the fact it kept resetting after pulling the key out the ignition. A very annoying issue I couldn't be arsed to fix on the Focus but will not be letting it slide this time. 

Examined the wiring diagram, the JVC's permanent live is yellow and switched live is red. The Picasso's switched live is yellow and permanent live is red. So swapped them around. 

In any normal car, this would solve the issue. But because French, the switched live seems to be BSI commanded rather than position 2 of the ignition.

More so, if the radio was left on, it will be commended on by the BSI whenever it wakes up. This, I believe, is what was causing the battery drain. 

It seems very well known that aftermarket headunits in these aren't the best idea. 

My plan is to investigate the wiring and if possible, snip the BSI wires so that the switched feed is strictly from the key only. Alternatively I could intercept the switched feed via the cigarette lighter instead 

The easy option would surely be to remove the permanent live, but I don't even think that'll work with the switched feed being commanded with the BSI rather than the key

Why do French cars have to be so different 🤦

[maxxo]

1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said:

I said there wouldn't be any updates for ages... I lied! 

I've sussed my previous headunit debacle. 

Set to installing my new bargain JVC headunit today. It came with the ISO adaptor, so all I had to do was remove the old adaptor from the faulty Sony unit and plug it in. 

It worked, except for the fact it kept resetting after pulling the key out the ignition. A very annoying issue I couldn't be arsed to fix on the Focus but will not be letting it slide this time. 

Examined the wiring diagram, the JVC's permanent live is yellow and switched live is red. The Picasso's switched live is yellow and permanent live is red. So swapped them around. 

In any normal car, this would solve the issue. But because French, the switched live seems to be BSI commanded rather than position 2 of the ignition.

More so, if the radio was left on, it will be commended on by the BSI whenever it wakes up. This, I believe, is what was causing the battery drain. 

It seems very well known that aftermarket headunits in these aren't the best idea. 

My plan is to investigate the wiring and if possible, snip the BSI wires so that the switched feed is strictly from the key only. Alternatively I could intercept the switched feed via the cigarette lighter instead 

The easy option would surely be to remove the permanent live, but I don't even think that'll work with the switched feed being commanded with the BSI rather than the key

Why do French cars have to be so different 🤦

basically you can't do it to function like a normal radio

either they turn off and lose everything or it turns on whenever the BSI wakes up

2000s era PSA cars utterly hate aftermarket head units

sacked the one off in my C5 before i even bought it, told the previous owner to keep it

[Jazoli]

You can do it and it's fairly easy, you just take a permanent live using a tap fuse from the fuse box and leave the switched live in place, I've done it loads on 2000 on Peugeot stuff, did it last week on the wife's 308. 

[RoverFolkUs]

1 hour ago, maxxo said:

basically you can't do it to function like a normal radio

either they turn off and lose everything or it turns on whenever the BSI wakes up

2000s era PSA cars utterly hate aftermarket head units

sacked the one off in my C5 before i even bought it, told the previous owner to keep it

Yes, from what I gathered, not conventionally no.  

That's what I discovered today, it was resetting itself with one configuration or switching on when the BSI woke up (i.e after locking the car) if I swapped the yellow/red wires around.

I'm still pressing to make this aftermarket unit work, as I would like Bluetooth and Aux. I know solutions are available to add those into old dumb headunits, but they're usually a bit crap. 

31 minutes ago, Jazoli said:

You can do it and it's fairly easy, you just take a permanent live using a tap fuse from the fuse box and leave the switched live in place, I've done it loads on 2000 on Peugeot stuff, did it last week on the wife's 308. 

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but this is surely going to cause it to lose its memory every time? I'm thinking of a solution to keep the permanent live but have the switched live operated by 2nd position of the key and not whenever the BSI wakes up. (Utterly stupid setup if you ask me, and that's what was causing the battery drain previously) 

I was thinking of putting the switched feed with the cigarette lighter, which is switched by the ignition and not the BSI. I (will) never use the cigarette lighter, infact happy to remove the wiring from the socket and have the radio pinch it's feed instead so no risk of too much current through that circuit

Although please do tell me if the method you describe will keep the radio memory and also operate it only when the key is in the ignition?

Cheers!

[Noel Tidybeard]

i think you need to re-read the reply- Jazoli does state permanent live

[RoverFolkUs]

31 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

i think you need to re-read the reply- Jazoli does state permanent live

I will hold my hands up if it's me being thick, but the permanent live isn't the issue. It's the switched live being switched by the BSI waking up rather than with the key as with any other car? 

Unless Jazoli is saying to take the permanent live from something that is switched with the ignition, which would still reset the radio every time?

It's entirely possible I'm being dense this late in the evening and I do apologize if that's the case!

I.e - if the switched live stays as it is, then it's still going to come on when the BSI wakes up? Then if the permanent live comes from something else, it either stays live constantly and wakes with the BSI or only comes on with the key but loses its memory every time?

I appreciate the thoughts, just hope that I'm understand everyone correctly!

[Jazoli]

I fitted a permanent live from the fusebox with a tap fuse to the ISO harness and left the original switched live connected, the radio maintains its memory due to the permanent live providing constant power and the switched live powers it on and off with the key. 

It really was as simple as that. 

[RoverFolkUs]

21 minutes ago, Jazoli said:

I fitted a permanent live from the fusebox with a tap fuse to the ISO harness and left the original switched live connected, the radio maintains its memory due to the permanent live providing constant power and the switched live powers it on and off with the key. 

It really was as simple as that. 

Cool thanks, I'll give it a go

[RoverFolkUs]

So it's been a minute and I've left this thread hanging for quite a while. I've tended to keep updates in the news 24 thread but here's a summary of what's been going on since the last update, in no particular order. 

So the headunit debacle is solved. I've used the aforementioned JVC, I've slept since the installation but whatever I've done has enabled it to work properly, remember all settings and most importantly, not cause a battery drain any more. 

Sent it for its MOT a few weeks ago and it went straight through bar an advisory for a defective exhaust mount. Obviously I had to sort that, so 15 quid and a bit of loose change later I've sourced a new band clamp. 

Citroen don't sell them alone any more and only list the silencer. I thought it would be ridiculous to waste the exhaust box just because of the clamp and luckily was able to source a replacement from eBay, otherwise I'd have fabricated something because a replacement exhaust box wouldn't last anywhere near as long as the original one that's still on it. 

I know it's slightly misshapen but that's the best I could get by crawling underneath it. I can readjust when it's next up in the air. 

For some reason the coolant cap won't tighten down and will just pull off, I can't see any damage to the threads on the bottle so I'm hoping a new cap that's just set me back a whopping £5 will cure that

Starting it up this afternoon, I was greeted with a BEEP - oh no I thought, but it was just the service reminder helpfully informing me that I should service it in 150 miles. I've noticed some slight oil sweating underneath from what I assume to be the sump plug so hopefully I should be able to resolve that at the same time. 

I keep meaning to phone up the garage that the previous owner used to look after it to confirm if the cambelt has been done. There's a handwritten note, presumably by the late giffer owner, among the paperwork with a date and mileage denoting cambelt replacement but I'd like the peace of mind of a garage confirming it's been done. I might well just treat it to a new one anyway, because what's £50 to keep such a low mileage healthy engine in good order. 

I think that's it for now. I've still done nothing about the bodywork..

TLDR; it's being totally fantastic with only minor niggles cropping up here and there. 

[JMotor]

Top work. 

Totally worth doing the belt again. Specially if it saves aggro later on as you know. Easier than trying to deal with the mess after the belt went. Sadly most won't see the point of doing these jobs and most will be binned due to expensive work needed due to neglect. 

Sad story this. But a friend of mine is using a 1.6 Picasso gearbox for his Peugeot 106 rally car build. It's a BE gearbox but with the same bellhousing pattern of the MA boxes. So fits his 1.6 16v perfect and is waaay stronger.

[maxxo]

the 1.6 16v petrol engine is a good lump in these

recently serviced my grandparents example, first time in many many years

check out the colour of that oil 

lovely to see yours is still going and treating you well, i really liked mine

[RoverFolkUs]

7 minutes ago, maxxo said:

the 1.6 16v petrol engine is a good lump in these

recently serviced my grandparents example, first time in many many years

check out the colour of that oil 

lovely to see yours is still going and treating you well, i really liked mine

The oil is still golden in mine! It's been so well looked after, the fella only did 2k or so a year and it looks like he had a "Gold" service done every other year. 

Feels like a waste of time but for the minimal cost of oil I might as well do it, then I can address the sump leak at the same time anyway. 

Mine is so unbelievably rust free underneath. I'll get some proper photos of it eventually, both outside and underneath, but you can see how clean it is just from this photo I posted above. 

That box section of chassis or whatever you may wish to call it is immaculate

Even that little bit of the exhaust, which is original, doesn't have a spec of rust on it 😅

I've never seen a Xsara Picasso as clean as this one underneath. The paintwork is damaged but I can sort that.

It sounds daft but I'm trying to somewhat preserve it by only using it sparingly 😅

[RoverFolkUs]

Another few months have passed, another update: 

Since the well documented Focus incident, this has seen a lot more use. In fact they have swapped around, the Picasso is now seeing daily usage and has racked up another 1000 miles in the past 6 weeks or so, with the now-repaired Focus sitting as a spare. 

A couple of little bits have cropped up on it as follows:

It's started making a fairly concerning "pop" noise, it happens when first starting, without moving the car, and seems to come and go at lower speeds, particularly when steering at any position other than dead ahead, at roundabout speeds, intermittently over harsh speed bumps, always during 3 point turns. It's not a CV joint click, it's just a single "POP".. I'm not sure what could cause it as it does it sometimes when you just start the engine so it can't be suspension related 🤔 - further investigations required!

The original rear tyres have REALLY started to deteriorate all of a sudden, cracks are forming around the tread and it's starting to lift unevenly, and the outer sidewalls are getting too cracked for comfort so I am going to be replacing those ASAP. They've still got about 5-6mm of tread on them! But they're from 2005... 

The wiper blades have got progressively noisier so it's time for a new pair of those. Obviously I had forgotten about this until a 70 mile journey the other day in the rain...  🤣🤣

REALLY need to give it a full service

Still done sod all about the bodywork

That's about it, basically need to service it, replace 2x tyres and investigate this noise ASAP

If anyone has experienced that noise on one of these or these engines, (TU5JP4) - I'm all ears as to any suggestions of what it may be. 

I haven't had a chance to get it up in the air yet but now the Focus is finished I should have time to soon..

[RoverFolkUs]

Finally gave this beast a major service today, it's obviously been looked after as the filters that came out weren't horrific but I've done oil, air, fuel, cabin + spark plugs to bring it all up to date. Replaced the leaking o/s/r wheel cylinder and offside track rod end which had a torn dust cover. 

So it's pretty much 100% now. 

The power steering leak which I was fretting about appears to be coming from the pressure switch which is a relief because that's pretty much the best case scenario. The centre silencer is getting extremely rusty along the seams so I imagine that's the next thing that will need some attention. 

Aside from those 2 bits, it's now pretty much mechanically perfect.

Managed to address a little bit of the bodywork damage. A splash of tar and glue remover managed to remove a lot of paint transfer so I'd say it looks about 30% less shit now

[RoverFolkUs]

As alluded to in the news thread, this passed its MOT with only 1 minor pesky advisory: 

I knew about this leak so figured it's time to do something about it. I already ordered a switch to have on hand a little while back anyway. 

I couldn't see any leaks from anywhere else, so having pulled the connector off and found PAS fluid in it, and the o-ring extremely flat, I decided that I wasn't going too far wrong here. 

Fingers crossed it all stays dry, and if so then it's effectively an advisory free MOT!