Manchester clean air zone May 2022

[Minimad5]

I hear Wigan is introducing a clean air zone at a similar time.

I hope they don't enforce similar around here (Wirral), as i don't understand how they expect folk to just be able to afford the newer and 'cleaner' cars

[Ghosty]

1 hour ago, Matty said:

Is that above the Whitehouse in Littleborough?

No, Denshaw.

[Ghosty]

1 hour ago, Minimad5 said:

I hear Wigan is introducing a clean air zone at a similar time.

I hope they don't enforce similar around here (Wirral), as i don't understand how they expect folk to just be able to afford the newer and 'cleaner' cars

Wigan would be the GM CAZ. Do they have plans of their own?

[SiC]

9 hours ago, Minimad5 said:

I hear Wigan is introducing a clean air zone at a similar time.

I hope they don't enforce similar around here (Wirral), as i don't understand how they expect folk to just be able to afford the newer and 'cleaner' cars

Plenty of cars meet CAZ. E.g. My sub 1k Fabia petrol does quite happily. 

Basically any post 2005 petrol and some before then. Just loads of smelly diesels are the ones that will become verboten. 

[Wack]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Plenty of cars meet CAZ. E.g. My sub 1k Fabia petrol does quite happily. 

Basically any post 2005 petrol and some before then. Just loads of smelly diesels are the ones that will become verboten. 

Vans, trucks and motorhomes in greater manchester, cars aren't included, YET

 

Expect any work you want doing on your house in greater manchester to increase by £10 a day or £20 upwards if it's a big job with multiple contractors

[AnnoyingPentium]

2 hours ago, SiC said:

Basically any post 2005 petrol and some before then

All the pez Fabs do from 2000 onwards I think. Even the 1.4 8v OHV. There's obviously Rover petrols that get in too.

[sierraman]

A bit crap if you travel a long distance to a city by car though, you’ll have picked the diesel because of the economy but you can’t take it into the city centre. 

[SiC]

2 hours ago, Wack said:

Expect any work you want doing on your house in greater manchester to increase by £10 a day or £20 upwards if it's a big job with multiple contractors

Only if they're driving a pre 2015 van. Most trades I've seen around in Bristol are running new/nearly new lease and financed vans put through the company. Older vans end up being Hermes fodder.

27 minutes ago, sierraman said:

A bit crap if you travel a long distance to a city by car though, you’ll have picked the diesel because of the economy but you can’t take it into the city centre. 

If it's a one off then it's just another one off expense. It commuting then they're already likely paying through the nose for car parking and will be another expense they have for the decision they have to drive in. The train becomes a much more practical method of commuting in on longer journeys. Especially if into city centres. 

[sierraman]

3 minutes ago, SiC said:

Only if they're driving a pre 2015 van. Most trades I've seen around in Bristol are running new/nearly new lease and financed vans put through the company. Older vans end up being Hermes fodder.

If it's a one off then it's just another one off expense. It commuting then they're already likely paying through the nose for car parking and will be another expense they have for the decision they have to drive in. The train becomes a much more practical method of commuting in on longer journeys. Especially if into city centres. 

Or fucking it off and finding a better job. Life’s too short for spending your life waiting for trains and getting home at 8pm.

[SiC]

6 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Or fucking it off and finding a better job. Life’s too short for spending your life waiting for trains and getting home at 8pm.

Thing is, the Train is often the quicker route in and out of many cities at rush hour. For the simple reason there isn't road traffic to contend with. 

It's why I catch the train in and out of Bristol. Depending on the train its a 10 to 15min journey on train to my nearest station. Same journey by car is 15mins when quiet or 30mins+ rush hour and if an accident (surprisingly often) then even longer. I have a friend who lives on the outskirts of Manchester and commutes into the city for similar reasons. 

[angle]

I know that no one likes facts in these threads, because conspiracy theories are more fun. But hey, why not?

- CAZs aren't about CO2 and climate change, they're about NOx, PMs and asthma. Greta is sort of irrelevant. 

- They're required by central government, councils don't have a choice about putting them in or not.

- But, they're only a requirement where air pollution is above legal limits. If you're not above legal limits (or if, like Leeds, you get below them) you don't need one. 

- While councils have some choice over how they implement a CAZ, if they test a few options and find that some get air pollution below legal limits faster they have to pick one of those options. That's why Bristol has dragged on for ages at least - they were trying to go with one of the slower options because they were worried about the impact on people in poorer areas in the east of the city. They weren't allowed to. That's also the issue Andy Burnham appears to have too. 

- In practice, what that means is that councils have a choice between a big CAZ that doesn't apply to private cars (Manchester) or a smaller one that does (Bristol). You could argue the pros and cons of either I guess, but that's the answer to 'why is the Manchester one so big?' On a quick look, if they went with a CAZ that also covered private cars it wouldn't go much past the Inner Ring Road. 

[Ghosty]

1 hour ago, angle said:

- In practice, what that means is that councils have a choice between a big CAZ that doesn't apply to private cars (Manchester) or a smaller one that does (Bristol). You could argue the pros and cons of either I guess, but that's the answer to 'why is the Manchester one so big?' On a quick look, if they went with a CAZ that also covered private cars it wouldn't go much past the Inner Ring Road. 

The small one could work in principle and is probably the right way to do it (MCC would love it if they got all the private cars out of the centre and turned the city into a giant bus lane, pedestrianising any and all roads that weren't strictly necessary).

However, it won't work in practise, and Burnham probably wouldn't consider it - in 2008 Manchester rejected a congestion charge proposal by referendum - there was a massive public backlash and congestion charging/road pricing is still a very sore subject here - a CAZ affecting private car users would most probably be considered backdooring in a congestion charge against the people's will, and the media (especially the MEN et al) would cook up a storm. Burnham has to keep reiterating that he doesn't want to charge private car owners and that it's not a congestion charge.
Also, to go to that from the current proposals would just make things worse - they have to seriously think about damage control for any new proposal.

[Wack]

On 2/25/2022 at 12:18 PM, SiC said:

Only if they're driving a pre 2015 van. Most trades I've seen around in Bristol are running new/nearly new lease and financed vans put through the company. Older vans end up being Hermes fodder.

If it's a one off then it's just another one off expense. It commuting then they're already likely paying through the nose for car parking and will be another expense they have for the decision they have to drive in. The train becomes a much more practical method of commuting in on longer journeys. Especially if into city centres. 

They weren't all euro 6 until September 2016 , 2015 is hit and miss , some are euro 5 even on 16 plates 

There must be thousands of vans in GM older than 2015 , the reason it's been suspended is there aren't any reasonably priced 2016 on vans to buy even if they could afford it and as there's probably 20 pre 2016 diesel cars for every van it's a pretty pointless exercise.

One bus company already said they won't be changing their buses , just putting the fares up .

Improve public transport and make it cheap and people will use it , when it's crowded and unreliable they won't 

[UltraWomble]

On 2/25/2022 at 12:33 AM, HarmonicCheeseburger said:

What happens if some insane mother fucker put a Detroit 2-stroke diesel into a Tesla ?