Going to the Main Dealer out of desperation....

[Guest]

Okay, I know you're all sick of hearing how much my C4 pisses me off. Today I checked my books and the agreement is up in July, not March.I took stock last night and realised that I do still like it, I just want to get to the bottom of the problems it has.CIH has tried his damndest to sort the problems out for me. He balanced all four wheels for me on his day off, FOC, and refused the sortings out for it.To recap, the problem is wheel wobble. Lots of it. I'm taking it to the main dealer in desperation because everywhere else I've taken it to denies it's there (it fucking is there) or comes out with the classic 'your wheels need balancing mate'. Well yes I've tried that, this is the 6th time now, and every time it's got worse.CIH is convinced the balancing machine at work is on the piss, because every time he spun it up the readings came up different, and hilariously out of balance each time. He tried balancing on the centre bore visually, and then using the hub adaptor. The amount of wobble with the latter method was comical. But CIH doesn't think my wheels are buckled.So I'm asking you fine Autoshiteists two things:1. What the fuck's up with my car?The facts are that there's some play in the bottom ball joints. Not sure if that would contribute. Track rod ends are recent.The back tyres are now on the front, but after a week driving on them they're actually worse then when the fronts were on.With the fronts the car was fine up to 70-75 mph. After that, you got a fucking nasty judder through the wheel. Car has Goodyear Eagle GSD 3 F1s all round, stock size. Fronts have lots of meat, rears are almost on the TWI.The rears make the steering mega twitchy, and wobble at 40 mph upwards. It bump steers quite badly. Also, there's a low rumble under braking when passing up through 25-30 mph. Discs and pads are 30k old, I had them replaced with Brembos when the OEM rotors wore out at 20k and Slough refused to replace them under warranty or make a contribution.Any ideas? Sidewalls too stiff? Disc run out?I've been told French cars are a pig to balance the wheels on, hence why Mr CIH tried the hub adaptor.2. How do I get it through to the dealer that I just want the problem diagnosing and not a ridiculous load of crap spouted \ hatchet job of faults foisting on me? I'm not going to go to the garage in Sale, it'll be Warrington I go to, because I've fallen out spectacularly with my local dealer over previous faults the car had under warranty. Any help appreciated, so I can get back to liking the damn thing, rather than wishing it made contact with something solid.

[bones96]

take it into the dealers and say that if the problems not sorted you will get trading standards involved my bro in law had a problem with his fiat multipla jtd when my sister filled it up with petrol (doh) the garage recovered the car from motorway and in doing so managed to rip half the mountings of the tank so when they eventually sorted the fuel problem out they tried saying that the mountings snapped before the recovery took place so t s got involved and problem was sorted foc

[Station]

I'm betting the dealer will give an even worse prediction of the solution, including 'your wheels need balancing'! They're only good for decent quality parts, but the mechanics are often mostly skilled in replacing things like EGR valves and resetting the OBDII thing, and servicing.You need someone with a laser measuring device to check the geometry of the suspension etc.

[trigger]

Have you had it since new?.

[Cavcraft]

Have you had the wheels balanced whilst still on the car? When I used to work for a tyre house many moons ago that had an 'on car' balancer you'd be surprised how many times it sorted problems out.

[seth]

Have you had the wheels balanced whilst still on the car? When I used to work for a tyre house many moons ago that had an 'on car' balancer you'd be surprised how many times it sorted problems out.

I was just about to say the same thing. Balancing on the car is superior to off it since it takes allowance for variations in the hub as well.

[whitevanman]

It may be off the wall but I cant help thinking the camber fecked............

[trigger]

That's why i was asking if you have had it since new, Maybe it's been in a accident before you bought it where it's had to go on a jig to be straightened and it hasn't been aligned correctly so the geometry is incorrect, the car could be out of shape only by a few mm's so it's not running true.

[woolleyiain]

The on the car balancing thing makes a huge difference, we do that at work. It's loads better than an off the car balance. This might sound a bit odd - but check the control arm bushings or get the dealer to do this if you haven't already. If they are worn your alignment could be out. That would contribute to the strange tire wear. It does all sound a bit odd, though...

[Richard]

I think you need to swap the wheels with another car and see if the wobble stays with the wheels or the car. It doesn't need to be another C4, as long as the wheels fit and clear the callipers.It does sound very much like the wheels are faulty in some way.

[garethj]

That's why i was asking if you have had it since new, Maybe it's been in a accident before you bought it where it's had to go on a jig to be straightened and it hasn't been aligned correctly so the geometry is incorrect, the car could be out of shape only by a few mm's so it's not running true.

What he said.When I visited the Peugeot factory building 307s (or something, some blob-like hatchback anyway), they weld all the body panels together and then pull the bodyshell into shape with laser measuring. The body is actually straight to within 0.1mm or better Compare that to most of our old snotters where the wheelbase left and right is within half an inch....You won't get far without the balljoints being in good condition so if they're worn they need to be replaced. Some cars are very sensitive to worn bushes, I think even the Capri strut front end was the same with its control arm bushes.To see if the wheels are running badly out of line, jack up one corner and hold a nail at the rim, keep it still by bracing it against a block or your leg or something. Then spin the wheel and see if it goes up and down or in and out. Do the same for all 4 to see if they're running true.Have you tightened the wheel nuts up with a torque wrench and done them up in diagonals, like tightening a cylinder head?

[pompei]

Just a thought - has it got the original wheels and not aftermarkets? My Honda CRX came with 15" alloys and was a pig. I got some original 14" rims and it was perfect. Even manufacturer's own rims can cause problems if offsets etc not the same - the Fiat Cinquecento wouldn't run properly on slightly bigger Uno Turbo alloys which looked the same.

[Mr Lobster]

Another vote for getting the wheels balanced on the car here. I'm not entirely sure that taking the car to a Citroen dealer is the answer tbh as from experience I'm not sure they'd make the effort / have the equipment to actually diagnose and solve the problem. You might be better with someone more specialised.

[r.welfare]

The website http://www.alignmycar.co.uk may be some use here, to identify your nearest source of a laser alignment machine.

[andrew e]

Yep another vote for 4 wheel alignment here.

[mnde]

^^ What they said, plus I'm going to put in a vote for a tyre beginning to delaminate as another possibility.I had a rear wheel on my BX that couldn't be balanced and the car exhibited the juddery symptoms of an out of balance wheel... bad around 65-70 mph. It shook the dashboard.It was only when my garage had the car up on a lift and showed me what they'd found. Chap said "watch the tread grooves" and span the wheel by hand. Sure enough, they tracked from side to side like the stylus on a warped record.Hope you get it fixed. C4 is my favourite new Citroen next to the C6 and the first model C3 without the big ugly grille.Mark.

[Guest]

Some boss suggestions here.To answer your questions:Wheels are standard. My unit mate has a set of 205 GTI alloys which we're going to try on it.Have I owned it from new? Yeah I have. Has it ever been in an accident? Yes it has, I hit a patch of (unsignposted) standing water at 30 mph which spun me round and shoved me into an earth bank. This was in torrential rain on a blind corner, I hit the brakes at 50 but it wasn't enough, the water went over the roof, I twatted the bank so hard the car went over on two wheels, and I then smacked into the B pillar and everything white for a second. I came to with my foot jammed on the accelerator.The body shop assured me that an alignment check had been done and that the wheels weren't fecked, otherwise they'd have replaced them.

[Guest]

There's a place near me in Oldham that's an alignment and Citroen specialist. I'm going to have a word with them I think.

[garethj]

Has it ever been in an accident? Yes it has, I hit a patch of (unsignposted) standing water at 30 mph which spun me round and shoved me into an earth bank. I twatted the bank so hard the car went over on two wheels

Big question here: was it ok before the accident?

[Guest]

Has it ever been in an accident? Yes it has, I hit a patch of (unsignposted) standing water at 30 mph which spun me round and shoved me into an earth bank. I twatted the bank so hard the car went over on two wheels

Big question here: was it ok before the accident?

No it jiggled a bit before the accident 'hactually.

[Guest]

There's a place near me in Oldham that's an alignment and Citroen specialist. I'm going to have a word with them I think.

Booked in on Monday, hurrah.

[Alpineandy]

Some one hasn't left a tyre lever inside the tyre have they?

[warren t claim]

Are you sure you the salesman didn't sell you a Hillman Avenger by accident? Your problems sound somewhat familiar...

[Guest]

Are you sure you the salesman didn't sell you a Hillman Avenger by accident? Your problems sound somewhat familiar...

Funny looking Avenger if it is, last time I checked Avengers didn't have a fixed hub steering wheel.....

[Rusty Pelican]

Had this once on my imp , turned out to be the hub badly machined , on car balancing helped a great deal but changing the hub solved it completely

[Guest]

Had this once on my imp , turned out to be the hub badly machined , on car balancing helped a great deal but changing the hub solved it completely

It's daft but one of the technicians from the main stealer said it needed a new hub when I starting getting grief off it when it was 8 months old.

 

'Fine' I said, 'will I get this under warranty?'

 

'No' quoth Citroen UK. 'Because in our view you've thrashed the car.'

 

Yes of course, and your salesman \ test pilot garage staff drive like fucking angels.............

 

Thus began the hate \ hate relationship with Slough when they refused 8 out of my 9 warranty claims.

 

They very grudgingly replaced a door rubber on the NS front door because it bowed out of shape. Did they adjust the door that's never sat right since the PDI kid was off having a wank? Did they bollocks.

 

It took them an entire day to do that as well, and then I had to get chief bummer boy out to have another crack because it still didn't fit right.

 

Yay piece of mind OEM warranty.

[UglyAmerican]

Sounds like the first step is to try your mate's wheels on it and see what happens. At least the only cost is your time and some elbow grease. And perhaps a few beers. Did I say beers? I mean cups of tea/coffee.

[Richard]

Some one hasn't left a tyre lever inside the tyre have they?

Not such a ridiculous idea actually. It's not unknown for balance weights to find their way into a tyre when it's being fitted.

[Albert Ross]

Is there not a post on here about you having steering issues with the very same car? What was the outcome?

[Guest]

Is there not a post on here about you having steering issues with the very same car? What was the outcome?

Hey I'm trying to cut down. We'll see what the alignment place has to say. All bets are currently still on.