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DaveDorson

MK3 Mondeo ST 2.2 FTP, a Dave saga with a fair bit of swearyness.

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Bastard cunting, shitting fucking poxy bastard diesel fucking ford shite.

 

*breathe*  Pulled into a customer site on Thursday and the car cut out, restarted, managed to park, then it refused to start..

Called breakdown, and it's lapsed, so had to renew.. can't call them out for 48 hours.. fuck.

Ordered a new fuel filter, went down on Sunday to the site (couldn't get the part Friday, so had to amazon prime it and get raped full price for a filter...), there's a guard there who won't let me in, car park is barriered, obviously I'd told the site that I'd planned to recover it at the weekend, and told work I'd work from home on Friday.

As you might remember... there was some weather yesterday.. I got down there at 7am ish to get it out the way, purged the new filter in diesel, topped it up, and fitted it.

 

Failed to start, flashing coil plug light after cranking.

 

Opened the filter and sucked diesel through.. yuk.. still failed to start.

 

Gave up and rang breakdown, who confirmed with easy start that the engine is fine but it's not getting fuel.. no shit sherlock. Can you at least try and bleed the diesel out the lines as I don't have the tools to do it here, what the fuck do I pay these muppets for..


Man one fucks off, man two arrives with the low bed, wants to take me to "the nearest garage", fuck you son, I'm paying for a "premium service", you'll recover me to where I want to go within 25 miles or take me home.

After much arguing, he rings control, and then we set off to my workshop unit.. the storm is getting worse.


We arrive...

Can't load it into the unit as there's too much shite in the way, so I move the van out the way, open the unit and start to get my tools ready to try and bleed the bastard, the van needs an air filter fitting, I've got the part in the unit, and it's got a puncture, so I pull the front of the van into the unit, get the wheel off it and repair the puncture while he minces about unloading the car in the space I'd cleared moving the van.

He's gone and abandoned it half way across two spaces, I grumble, he grumbles, it's a Sunday, it's fucking dangerously windy by now and it's looking increasingly unlikely that I'll get the car sorted today, I sign the paperwork and bid him farewell, miserable fucker....

 

Well fuck it, I'll use the van for work then, even though it really needs a steering rack.. loaded some steering fluid into various bottles and loaded it into the van, tie wrapped some absorbent pads to the bits where the fluid weeps a bit, usually it's working past the rack ends and unto the subframes and front suspension arms.. to try and mitigate staining the ground wherever she parks until my shoulder is less fucked and I can change the steering rack out.

That storm starts being a right bastard, like proper hooli.  The yard is full of shite blowing around and I'm nearly taken out by a tree branch which has broken free from a nearby tree.. my route home goes through some wooded roads near Wittering, and I don't fancy getting stuck because this bastard storm, in defeat, I take the stuff from the Mondeo and load into the van, empty what I can from the van into the unit, and strap what I can move from the van down securely so I can use the van for work.

 

If you've made it this far, well done..

 

Now, anyone got any tips of diagnosing a car that doesn't show any engine codes, but doesn't seem to get getting fuel to the rail.

 

54 plate Mondeo ST 2.2 Diesel.

I assume I should unplug the injectors next and then crack the pipes open to see if fuel is getting past the pump and into the rail?

I know, never work on it running, don't even go near the pressure side of it as it'll kill me.  Is there any way to test the pump, diesel is getting as far as the pump as I've sucked it through the filter.

 

 

 

 

 

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These are a bit notorious for pumps, but a v.quick internet search suggests it could be the EGR. I'd have thought that was absolute horse excrement, but one or two suggest it is a thing...

 

 https://www.stdrivers.co.uk/forum/topic/32822-starting-problems-on-mondeo-st-diesel/

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cavcraft said:

These are a bit notorious for pumps, but a v.quick internet search suggests it could be the EGR. I'd have thought that was absolute horse excrement, but one or two suggest it is a thing...

 

 https://www.stdrivers.co.uk/forum/topic/32822-starting-problems-on-mondeo-st-diesel/

 

 

I may well have disabled that feature on this particular engine previously, but not if my MOT tester is reading this post...

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Apparently the 2.2 is unique in not having a lift pump, which seems a bit shit.

There's a relay as well, that I think has no impact on the 2.2 (k4) that a few people have said I should replace, but again, that's for the non existent lift pump as I understand it.

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7 minutes ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

Cranking whilst a hero fires easy start down the EGR eventually gets the bastard going. Not having a lift pump is madness.

It's a fucking stupid design that reminds me why I've tended to steer away from fords in the past even though I do actually quite like them.

So, I can't actually do anything with the car at the moment because I'm doing my day job and it's at the workshop that I only tend to go to evenings and weekends.

But, I've downloaded the Torque app on my telephone device (I paid for it ages ago, so get the full version) and I've asked the wife, who's off work at the moment due to having skilfully booked the week off when the most work will need doing (she amongst other things, arranges tree works for a number of local assets), to turn the house upside down looking for one of the many ELM 327 Bluetooth things I've bought over the years and forgotten I owned.

The Torque app does a number of live readings, the Mondeo has a fuel rail pressure sensor, which if it's failing or doesn't feel there's adequate pressure in the rail, will cause a non-start and the flashing coil light but won't log an EML in the conventional manner.

It'll also tell me what the MAF and other sensors are reading, which given I had a MAP sensor issue a few weeks ago that's not returned after resetting the code (the injector delivery apparently needs some MAF interpolation to figure out correct injection pulsing), so that's a potential fault that might be causing a non start too.

When will 5pm happen so I can take a look at the cunting thing again...

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As said, we can make it run on easy start into the airbox, but it's not dragging any fuel into the injectors from the rail;  this may well mean the pump has failed to put the diesel from the filter into the rail, it may mean the injectors aren't firing;  if the rail isn't making enough pressure to fire the injectors, they won't fire, so I need to see what's going on in the rail really..

I'd usually just crack a pipe open to see if diesel is coming out, but given the post pump pressure of these engines, that idea can fuck right off into the nearest oceanic expanse.

 

 

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Got home to the Mrs demanding we go to homebase so she can get some wood for making stuff in the garden while she's off work.

 

This frustrated and annoyed me to the point of me not looking at the car last night, or hunting out my ELM devices, but I did borrow one off a friend, so that's something I guess.

 

Perhaps an update tonight.. perhaps not.

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In fuel tank filter or pick-up blocked? 15 year old car. My AX had diesel fungus - a kind of cream gunk completely blocking the in-tank sieve and the pickup pipe. Luckily it was removable from the tank and with lots of washing up liquid and an old coat hanger to rod it I got it out - was like chewing gum. Might be worth a check if your pick-up and tank are accessible as it was a fairly simple thing to look at.  It completely blocked any diesel getting to the pump and the car would not run to the extent that the diesel pump was creating a vacuum in the fuel pipes!

Weather is still pretty poor alas - good luck with this  one. 

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14 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

In fuel tank filter or pick-up blocked? 15 year old car. My AX had diesel fungus - a kind of cream gunk completely blocking the in-tank sieve and the pickup pipe. Luckily it was removable from the tank and with lots of washing up liquid and an old coat hanger to rod it I got it out - was like chewing gum. Might be worth a check if your pick-up and tank are accessible as it was a fairly simple thing to look at.  It completely blocked any diesel getting to the pump and the car would not run to the extent that the diesel pump was creating a vacuum in the fuel pipes!

Weather is still pretty poor alas - good luck with this  one. 

I can blow back the lines and suck diesel to the filter alright.

 

I suspect it's post pump/the pump at fault, or there's air in the rail stopping the injectors opening and the pump drawing fuel from the filter to the pump itself.

If the weather wasn't so grim, I'd go up one evening and take all the low pressure side apart and use one of them priming bulbs to make sure I've got dino juice all the way to the pump, then slowly with a big spanner and three pairs of thick gloves crack the post rail injector pipes to try and bleed some air out, cranking it over when stood out the way to make sure I'm getting fuel at least as far as the rail, then try and get some sort of ecu rail read out.

Oddly, it was running, then cutting out with the old filter in, which is why it got swapped, we suspected that was a bit blocked off.

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3 minutes ago, Skut said:

Isn't banging on the tank with a mallet supposed to resurrect some defunct fuel pumps. 

It’ll only stand a chance if there’s a pump there in the first place.

Ford in their infinite wisdom decided they could manage perfectly well without one.

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21 minutes ago, NorthernMonkey said:

It’ll only stand a chance if there’s a pump there in the first place.

Ford in their infinite wisdom decided they could manage perfectly well without one.

The AX has no pump. Just the one at the engine.

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1 hour ago, DaveDorson said:

I can blow back the lines and suck diesel to the filter alright.

 

I suspect it's post pump/the pump at fault, or there's air in the rail stopping the injectors opening and the pump drawing fuel from the filter to the pump itself.

If the weather wasn't so grim, I'd go up one evening and take all the low pressure side apart and use one of them priming bulbs to make sure I've got dino juice all the way to the pump, then slowly with a big spanner and three pairs of thick gloves crack the post rail injector pipes to try and bleed some air out, cranking it over when stood out the way to make sure I'm getting fuel at least as far as the rail, then try and get some sort of ecu rail read out.

Oddly, it was running, then cutting out with the old filter in, which is why it got swapped, we suspected that was a bit blocked off.

And a dud filter or slightly wrong part or in the wrong way in or crap in filter housing take-up? Frustrating. Take the filter out and try starting briefly? I always try the obvious stuff first and 50% of the time its something like that - I'm not sure if these are a screw in or in a housing - though so may not apply but you could try bypassing if the tubing allows. 

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57 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

And a dud filter or slightly wrong part or in the wrong way in or crap in filter housing take-up? Frustrating. Take the filter out and try starting briefly? I always try the obvious stuff first and 50% of the time its something like that - I'm not sure if these are a screw in or in a housing - though so may not apply but you could try bypassing if the tubing allows. 

There's no way in hell, given the shitty reputation these pumps have, that I'd even consider removing the filter from the pump feed.

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Have a look at the camshaft sensor, the injectors use it to know when to fire. It won't store codes either if it's broken.

Don't buy a cheap one as it won't last long, talking from experience here.

Got to be worth a go before getting involved in injectors and pumps etc...

I found this really useful when I had my MK3 tdci.

https://www.fordwiki.co.uk/index.php/Category:Mondeo_Mk3

Edited by Jds1
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17 hours ago, Jds1 said:

Have a look at the camshaft sensor, the injectors use it to know when to fire. It won't store codes either if it's broken.

Don't buy a cheap one as it won't last long, talking from experience here.

Got to be worth a go before getting involved in injectors and pumps etc...

I found this really useful when I had my MK3 tdci.

https://www.fordwiki.co.uk/index.php/Category:Mondeo_Mk3

Cheers, oddly it did fire up then die before we swapped the filter out, which leads me to think it's something fueling/rail related.

I've still not managed to get to it since Sunday, work gets in the way somewhat.

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52 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Are you sure the pump relay and associated fuse hasn’t gone? Is it clicking when you engage it? 

I've not looked at that yet;  looked at the fuses in the box by the engine and that all seemed OK, I'm not sure the High Pressure pump has a fuse, as it's common rail, it just makes a load of pressure in the rail and returns what it doesn't use I think.. could be wrong though.

The 2.0 TDCI has a pump fuse but I think that's for the lift pump, mines the 2.2 155PS one, which I don't think has.

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3 hours ago, sierraman said:

I’ve not had anything to do with that unit but I would say it should have a pump relay and a fuse. 

probably, I'll wave some spanners at the fucking thing at the weekend I guess.

 

However, it did run then cut out, now it's failing to start, if the pump wasn't working, it'd just have failed to start and not run at all, even before swapping the filter.

 

I'm still hoping it's an air lock in the fuel system, or some silly sensor playing stupid buggers.

 

 

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Normally when I’ve changed the fuel filters on my 2.2s I’ve pre filled the filters and away they go. If I don’t fill them fully they may cough and splutter but once enough cranking has been done it fires and runs. They normally sort any air locks out themselves. 🤔

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