The Honda may live ? - Cookie's adventures in shiteing

[Cookiesouwest]

Weird. Tonight the sensors started working again, after a long run.

Maybe rain is getting in. Forums seem to suggest that can be the problem.

Will probably replace all of them and ensure connections are water tight.

[High Jetter]

1 minute ago, Cookiesouwest said:

Weird. Tonight the sensors started working again, after a long run.

Maybe rain is getting in. Forums seem to suggest that can be the problem.

Will probably replace all of them and ensure connections are water tight.

Maybe let it dry out first? My ZTT's window switches don't like getting wet

[Snake Charmer]

11 hours ago, rantingYoof said:

An engine and 'box combo that'll be running about post-nuclear winter, along with XUDs, PDs and perhaps one or two of the better straight six BMW lumps.

OM648 seems to be missing off that list..... .😀

[Cookiesouwest]

So CRV was presented for MOT at 9am.

It seems as though you don't actually need a shock top mount to pass !

Garage now sorting the suspension and checking if the AWD system actually works.

 

[Cookiesouwest]

It also turns out that the shock bolt at the bottom was sheared.

Still passed mot though.

Gotta love a blind MOT tester

New shock and top mount fitted. Picking it up, later today.

[Sunny Jim]

Whilst this is good news I'd be a bit concerned about what else they might have missed.

[Tickman]

I'm assuming that the tester knew the shock mount and stuff was getting swapped before it went on the road.

Still wrong obviously but possibly why.

[Sunny Jim]

Ah, that probably makes more sense than my glass half full interpretation.

[Cookiesouwest]

I have now spoken to the mechanic.

Weirdly, when using the prybar to test the bushes and bottom of the shock, there was no play. None. Despite the bottom shock bolt being sheared.

This is why it passed the MOT, plus you can't see the top of the shock as its internal to the body.

So I was being a bit harsh, calling the MOT tester blind. I was surprised as the MOT garage is not noted for being kind.

My mechanic thinks its one of the weirdest things he's ever seen. Even though he knew why I had booked it in, he didn't believe me, until he started taking it all apart.

Also this is a 2wd CRV. Officially, rather than suspected.

Power is going to the rears, they are turning, until you apply any force. One finger can stop the rear wheel from turning.

So the inner workings of the diff (LSD ?) clearly knackered.

Oh well, its not like snow is forecast

Will have to use the RWD merc instead.

[Honey Badger]

Does the rear diff just need a fluid change, they don't like the fluid getting mixed with moisture from the breather.

https://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2007-2012-cr-v-oils-fluids/genuine-honda-cr-v-rear-differential-flushing-kit/?srsltid=AfmBOopa5mW7lA_4CRb071ITAPzlQDrfP-0hTnf_bzn-lqJuzHydOBfg

It's not an LSD it's a multi clutch system, the service kit above is for the later model but I believe that they have the same rear diff, cox's normally check for you if you order through them.

This is for the next model of CR-V but I believe your rear diff works the same way?

https://www.hcrv.net/system_description-1766.html

If the clutches are not engaging due to not sensing the front overspeeding that might be the reason why your mechanic can stop the rear wheel with one finger?

 

 

 

 

[Cookiesouwest]

27 minutes ago, Honey Badger said:

Does the rear diff just need a fluid change, they don't like the fluid getting mixed with moisture from the breather.

https://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/2007-2012-cr-v-oils-fluids/genuine-honda-cr-v-rear-differential-flushing-kit/?srsltid=AfmBOopa5mW7lA_4CRb071ITAPzlQDrfP-0hTnf_bzn-lqJuzHydOBfg

It's not an LSD it's a multi clutch system, the service kit above is for the later model but I believe that they have the same rear diff, cox's normally check for you if you order through them.

This is for the next model of CR-V but I believe your rear diff works the same way?

https://www.hcrv.net/system_description-1766.html

If the clutches are not engaging due to not sensing the front overspeeding that might be the reason why your mechanic can stop the rear wheel with one finger?

 

 

 

 

In my ownership, I did change the fluid last year.

Of course, no idea if previous owners did. Suspect not.

I don't understand the inner workings of the diff, but the wheels do turn, so clutch must be engaging. But then wheels can be stopped easily. 

Maybe the clutches are slipping?

[Honey Badger]

If it's not sensing any speed difference between front and back wheels the clutch wont engage?

It's not a constant mesh 4WD so are the wheels turning through a small amount of mechanical drag, only noticeable when the wheels are jacked up?

This is from the link I posted earlier.

Dual Pump System (DPS) Operation

For non-slippery roads (no slipping): DPS not operating

When the front and rear wheel speeds are equal (no slipping) as in normal driving, the oil discharged in the front wheel and oil drawn in the rear pump are equal, so a hydraulic pressure that pushes the wet-type multi-clutch is not developed, and the rear wheels are not driven.

For slippery roads (with slipping): DPS operating

When the front wheel speed is more than the rear wheel speed such as in starting, acceleration, and driving on a slippery road surface, the amount of oil discharged by the front pump exceeds the oil drawn by the rear pump, thus producing hydraulic pressure that presses the wet-type multi-plate clutch, and transmits driving force to the rear wheels.

When the speed of the front wheels becomes even greater than the rear wheels, the torque limiter mechanism (relief valve) limits the hydraulic pressure that pushes the wet-type multi-plate clutch, and transmits only the necessary driving force to the rear wheels as needed by 4WD driving.

[2flags]

When you stop the rear wheel, are you applying pressure to one wheel or both? If only one wheel, then the rear diff will allow the other wheel to spin. The center diff/clutch will lock, sending power to the rear, but unless it has a limited slip or locking diff, that diff will be open.

[Spiny Norman]

The  best way to check if the rear wheels are cutting in when they should on a CRV is to get it on a wet road or wait till it snows and provoke the system into engaging while a willing accomplice watches from outside. It can take a second or so to kick in, it really is a temporary assist rather than a 4wd but with the right tyres they can be quite capable in snow.

[Cookiesouwest]

8 hours ago, 2flags said:

When you stop the rear wheel, are you applying pressure to one wheel or both? If only one wheel, then the rear diff will allow the other wheel to spin. The center diff/clutch will lock, sending power to the rear, but unless it has a limited slip or locking diff, that diff will be open.

He may have had help, but as far as I know, he was on his own, so would have only been stopping one wheel.

[Cookiesouwest]

9 hours ago, Honey Badger said:

If it's not sensing any speed difference between front and back wheels the clutch wont engage?

It's not a constant mesh 4WD so are the wheels turning through a small amount of mechanical drag, only noticeable when the wheels are jacked up?

This is from the link I posted earlier.

Dual Pump System (DPS) Operation

For non-slippery roads (no slipping): DPS not operating

When the front and rear wheel speeds are equal (no slipping) as in normal driving, the oil discharged in the front wheel and oil drawn in the rear pump are equal, so a hydraulic pressure that pushes the wet-type multi-clutch is not developed, and the rear wheels are not driven.

For slippery roads (with slipping): DPS operating

When the front wheel speed is more than the rear wheel speed such as in starting, acceleration, and driving on a slippery road surface, the amount of oil discharged by the front pump exceeds the oil drawn by the rear pump, thus producing hydraulic pressure that presses the wet-type multi-plate clutch, and transmits driving force to the rear wheels.

When the speed of the front wheels becomes even greater than the rear wheels, the torque limiter mechanism (relief valve) limits the hydraulic pressure that pushes the wet-type multi-plate clutch, and transmits only the necessary driving force to the rear wheels as needed by 4WD driving.

Thank you for this.

The test that was done, as explained to me, was car was put on a two poster. Started and then run in gear.

The rear wheels started to turn, so the system is sending power to the back, as it senses front wheel slip.

Then with rear wheels turning, he could stop the wheel easily.

What I don't know, is whether he had someone else stopping the other rear wheel.

The reason I asked for the test was that last time it snowed, (couple of years ago), the car failed to get up a moderate hill and just had front wheel spinning and traction control kicking in. No forward progress and the hill defeated me.

Following that I did get the diff oil changed. But had no opportunity to test, whether it made a difference.

I will wait for snow and take it out to see what happens. More in hope than expectation.