A good reason to run old sh1ters if ever there was one

[Guest]

I'm still not taken much by these modern diesels either, I'm yet to drive one where you can drive it in a balanced way - reasonable acceleration and smoothness. I like to go in such a way that I'll keep up with other traffic, but won't feel the gearchanges - a bit like you're transporting a priceless vase on your parcel shelf, but you've still got to get to work on time.I just can't seem to do that on a modern diesel unless I go ridiculously slow, or way too fast. I just can't find that "sweet spot", I try to drive it like I would anything else and it's an irritating mixture of coming on/off boost and dropping out of the torque band, rabbit-hopping down the road, it does my nut in.Having said that, I can't say I dislike diesels completely - was tooling around in an old Rover 418 Turbodiesel and that seemed to work well enough - bit unrefined and not massively quick, but you could get a good rhythm going and the mpg is probably really good. I wouldn't object to doing some minicabbing in one, but I think I'd still pay that bit extra for a petrol motor to be honest.I'll drive anything though, so I'll keep giving them a go. Bruvva-Vicsmiffy has a new-ish Seat Toledo diesel auto and that's meant to be good to drive, seems smooth enough anyway. We will see!

[garbaldy]

I'm still not taken much by these modern diesels either, I'm yet to drive one where you can drive it in a balanced way - reasonable acceleration and smoothness. I like to go in such a way that I'll keep up with other traffic, but won't feel the gearchanges - a bit like you're transporting a priceless vase on your parcel shelf, but you've still got to get to work on time.I just can't seem to do that on a modern diesel unless I go ridiculously slow, or way too fast. I just can't find that "sweet spot", I try to drive it like I would anything else and it's an irritating mixture of coming on/off boost and dropping out of the torque band, rabbit-hopping down the road, it does my nut in.Having said that, I can't say I dislike diesels completely - was tooling around in an old Rover 418 Turbodiesel and that seemed to work well enough - bit unrefined and not massively quick, but you could get a good rhythm going and the mpg is probably really good. I wouldn't object to doing some minicabbing in one, but I think I'd still pay that bit extra for a petrol motor to be honest.I'll drive anything though, so I'll keep giving them a go. Bruvva-Vicsmiffy has a new-ish Seat Toledo diesel auto and that's meant to be good to drive, seems smooth enough anyway. We will see!

i know what you meen about not being smooth i have let a few mates drive my car and they drive it like they would a petrol which is the wrong way im sitting there in the passenger seat and me heads going like a nodding dog they are meant to be driven with higher gearing hence the economy, this satt is not like other diesels ive owned i came through a 40 limit in 5th gear and then gently press the throttle and straight upto 70 with no noddy syndrome it may have faults but it is smooth and a nice drive.

[oldford]

We had a customer in who said 'If you can't fix it, I'll scrap it'. He was referring to a six year old Skoda Fabia with a running fault which had been looked at previously by a few garages and he had already spent a lot of money on it.That's modern cars for you, too complicated by far. The Japanese seem to make a much better job of their electronics.

[Pete-M]

I find keeping the newer stuff running properly to be remarkably easy.All you need is decent diagnostic equipment and half a brain and it's a piece of piss to keep something modern running as it should. It always amazes me that there are so many garages out there who're apparently clueless with cars yet stay in business.Ok, diagnostic stuff isn't cheap, but you can buy proper stuff for under £1500 and it'll pay for itself in weeks. If I buy a car with OBD I get it read as soon as possible, find out what is wrong and fix it. Hardly rocket science. If you fix things asap then you don't tend to get a chain reaction of stuff breaking. The number of times I've read codes for people and told them about knackered lambda sensors / air flow meters etc and they've just left it "Well, it runs fine other than the light being on" and then 6 months later they end up scrapping a good car because it needs £500 of bits, when they could have kept it going for another 3 years for £60 if they'd not tried to skimp when they were told about the fault.That's what's killing modern cars, people being cheapskates.Modern cars will take one hell of a lot of abuse before they die, but because they keep running people keep running 'em until they die. Old stuff would just die until you fixed it, or wear out before you got the chance.

[garbaldy]

I find keeping the newer stuff running properly to be remarkably easy.All you need is decent diagnostic equipment and half a brain and it's a piece of piss to keep something modern running as it should. It always amazes me that there are so many garages out there who're apparently clueless with cars yet stay in business.Ok, diagnostic stuff isn't cheap, but you can buy proper stuff for under £1500 and it'll pay for itself in weeks. If I buy a car with OBD I get it read as soon as possible, find out what is wrong and fix it. Hardly rocket science. If you fix things asap then you don't tend to get a chain reaction of stuff breaking. The number of times I've read codes for people and told them about knackered lambda sensors / air flow meters etc and they've just left it "Well, it runs fine other than the light being on" and then 6 months later they end up scrapping a good car because it needs £500 of bits, when they could have kept it going for another 3 years for £60 if they'd not tried to skimp when they were told about the fault.That's what's killing modern cars, people being cheapskates.Modern cars will take one hell of a lot of abuse before they die, but because they keep running people keep running 'em until they die. Old stuff would just die until you fixed it, or wear out before you got the chance.

thats so true but this car is a little different as its going to vw main dealer and comeing up on the computer as no fauls so far its had two handbrake switches a fuel pump throttle intake control discs pads abs takeoff exhaust temp sensor software upgrade and now just waiting for the next warning message on the dash. all i can say is thank god its still under warrenty.

[Milford Cubicle]

£1500 of diagnostics kit?That's handy for home mechanics.

[Pete-M]

£1500 of diagnostics kit?That's handy for home mechanics.

Well yeah, but it's hardly out of reach for the average garage. The garages I know seem to be happy enough plugging in and reading codes for a minimal fee, say £5 or £10. Then you normally know what's wrong and can fix it. Cheaper than replacing a load of bits and then getting the codes read.I use a little generic job that cost £50 a couple of years ago, it reads most cars and has paid for itself probably 10 times over. Doesn't read VAG stuff, but I have access to a VAG-com machine so it's not an issue.You can more often than not buy a lead and software for not much money from the various forums, I know the chaps on the Audi forums have VAG com and don't mind reading codes for people.

[Milford Cubicle]

I'm a luddite and I love my prehistoric engine. It has no electronic control at all apart from the stop solenoid on the mechanical fuel pump. I'm put off buying anything more modern because they started bringing in ECUs, electric throttles and all kinds of complexities after my crock was built.Having said that, the relatively simple multipoint EFI systems found in a lot of '90s petrol cars seem to be very reliable.But ECUs and electric throttles in a diesel? It's missing the point.

[Cavcraft]

Modern cars don't bother me. Mostly.'99 Ashtray Mk4: never had anything other than service items, would drive absolutely anywhere in it and be confident it would get me there and back.'99 Pug 206: reminded why I don't bother with Peugeots if I can help it. Turned out to be unreliable shonky wank.Aren't most modern cars just hastily cobbled together crap though full of shite electrical gremlins, ECU realted faults and fuck all character?Pete-M makes a lot of sense here imho. I reckon a lot of people think a new(ish) car means they never have to actually service it or look after it because it's a fair few years newer than whatever heap of old crap they part-exchanged against it.

[Claypole]

I'll put up with any slowness and turbo lag in a daily:

 

 

Polo 1.9 TDI.

[Albert Ross]

Modern diesels.....The price of an injector for a 1.9 Vauxhall/Fiat/Alfa unit.....about £190 each.......plus gaskets, and "coding" the injectors to the ECU......LAnd Rover 2286 diesel, 1961 to 1985........Injectors £48+vat. For the SET!!! Including seal rings etc. Exchange. What the fuck is all that about? Who has 800 quid sitting around for a set of injectors, which to be honest are a serivce item......?

[Milford Cubicle]

I wish I could get replacement injectors for an XUD at that kind of price! I doubt think they're any more complex than your Land Rover ones.Claypole, is that a genuine economy figure? I'm never sure whether to trust those read-outs.

[dollywobbler]

Another reason to hate moderns - those fuel consumption things are never that accurate. We've got a Mini at work that allegedly manages 60+ to the gallon. Bollocks does it.

[Pete-M]

Modern diesels.....The price of an injector for a 1.9 Vauxhall/Fiat/Alfa unit.....about £190 each.......plus gaskets, and "coding" the injectors to the ECU......LAnd Rover 2286 diesel, 1961 to 1985........Injectors £48+vat. For the SET!!! Including seal rings etc. Exchange. What the fuck is all that about? Who has 800 quid sitting around for a set of injectors, which to be honest are a serivce item......?

In Czech they're having a nightmare with modern common rail diesel stuff as the Czech Gubbermint decided that to keep the eco-wankers happy all diesel sold there has to have about 15% biodiesel. No choice in the matter, you run a diesel, you get biodiesel from the pump. Now, this isn't an issue if you're smoking about in an old Pug 405D, but pretty much everything with a common rail lump is suffering badly and the Czechs don't tend to have £800 for a set of injectors every couple of years. The biodiseasel issue combined with diesels not being fond of starting when the temperatures really drop means that most of the newer stuff you see out there is petrol engined, and the big stuff tends to run on LPG.Sensible people, the Czechs.Oh, as for the fuel consumption thing, I can get the A6 to read 200 mpg. It averages 25ish. (And yes, I know that Polo gauge is set to avg)

[garbaldy]

I'll put up with any slowness and turbo lag in a daily:

 

 

Polo 1.9 TDI.

what age and model polo do you have as if my sat sells i might get something like that for the misses and treat myself to a new shape nav

[oldford]

I find keeping the newer stuff running properly to be remarkably easy.All you need is decent diagnostic equipment and half a brain and it's a piece of piss to keep something modern running as it should. It always amazes me that there are so many garages out there who're apparently clueless with cars yet stay in business.Ok, diagnostic stuff isn't cheap, but you can buy proper stuff for under £1500 and it'll pay for itself in weeks. If I buy a car with OBD I get it read as soon as possible, find out what is wrong and fix it. Hardly rocket science. If you fix things asap then you don't tend to get a chain reaction of stuff breaking. The number of times I've read codes for people and told them about knackered lambda sensors / air flow meters etc and they've just left it "Well, it runs fine other than the light being on" and then 6 months later they end up scrapping a good car because it needs £500 of bits, when they could have kept it going for another 3 years for £60 if they'd not tried to skimp when they were told about the fault.That's what's killing modern cars, people being cheapskates.Modern cars will take one hell of a lot of abuse before they die, but because they keep running people keep running 'em until they die. Old stuff would just die until you fixed it, or wear out before you got the chance.

The car cuts out and will restart within 5 to 10 minutes and then repeatedly cuts out. The oil pressure light is giving a warning, though the engine sounds perfectly normal and the speedometer has just packed up. There is evidence of wires to the headlamp adjuster been repaired/by passed. The customer does not want to spend any 'real' money, unless it will cure the problems and then the budget will be £250 ish + VAT.An initial scan of the vehicle shows:Chassis Type: 6Y - Skoda Fabia IScan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 17 19 25 37 44 46 55 56 76 VIN: TMBJB16Y Mileage: 84260km/52356miles-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail! Part No: 047 906 033 C Component: 1,4l SIMOS3PA 00HSSJ4C Coding: 00021 Shop #: WSC 13765 TMBJB16Y SKZ7Z0A6 Faults Found:17635 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 3 (N32): Short to Ground P1227 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent17636 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 4 (N33): Short to Ground P1228 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent17633 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 1 (N30): Short to Ground P1225 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent17634 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 2 (N31): Short to Ground P1226 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent16885 - Vehicle Speed Sensor: Implausible Signal P0501 - 35-00 - - 16502 - Engine Coolant Temp. Sensor (G62): Signal too High P0118 - 35-10 - - - IntermittentReadiness: 0000 0000-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 6Qx-937-049-B.lbl Part No: 6Q1 937 049 B Component: BORDNETZ-SG. 1S31 Coding: 09242 Shop #: WSC 13765 1 Fault Found:01598 - Drive Battery Voltage 07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl Part No: 1C0 909 601 C Component: 01 AIRBAG VW51 0004 Coding: 12337 Shop #: WSC 13765 No fault code found.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Address 17: Instruments Labels: Redir Fail! Part No: 6Y2 919 860 C Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDO V11 Coding: 16441 Shop #: WSC 24072 TMBJB16Y SKZ7Z0ANo fault code found.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl Part No: 6N0 909 901 Component: Gateway K<->CAN 1S31 Coding: 00012 Shop #: WSC 13765 No fault code found.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 6Q0-423-156.lbl Part No: 6Q0 423 156 M Component: LenkhilfeTRW V210 Coding: 00140 Shop #: WSC 13765 No fault code found.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 6Q0-959-433.lbl Part No: 6Q0 959 433 E Component: 31 Komfortgerát 0001 Coding: 00067 Shop #: WSC 13765 Part No: 6Q2959802 Component: 31 Tõrsteuer.FS TFK 0002 Part No: 6Q2959801 Component: 31 Tõrsteuer.BF TFK 0002 No fault code found.End ---------------------------------------------------------------------What does it take to fix this car?

[Pete-M]

I'd be suspecting a short on the engine loom, quite probably where it's rubbed against something. An intermittant fault on all four injectors, combined with the temp senders giving 'impossible' readings suggests that the injectors and temp sender are probably fine, but the loom isn't.The speedo will pack in because it's not getting a reading from the VSS.It's the loom, there's a short. It'll run for a few minutes until the wires get hot and the insulation is failing, sending the signals all over the shop. That'd be my diagnosis.Mk5 Golfs are buggers for it, normally the ABS loom on those.

[oldford]

That's a spot on diagnosis, it was the loom, the only sticking point was that a new loom was approaching £800, with around a months wait to have one made. We were lucky in that we managed to get a used loom for £200.

[carlo]

What's with that gory signature video 109landys3?(Has this been discussed?) Looks disturbingly realistic to me.

[j-j]

What's with that gory signature video 109landys3?(Has this been discussed?) Looks disturbingly realistic to me.

Isn't it the expoding head scene from 'Scanners' ?

[brammy777]

Yes it is. Never seen it, but i recognise the scene from websites!

[j-j]

I have seen it but yonks ago I can't recall what happens. Something about aliens that look like ordinary folk bus some of them are 'scanners' or something - I recall a bit in a shopping mall where a scanner is located or something - just wanted to get to the exploding head bit!

[Vin]

When I last had my daily driver Brava serviced, the garage said it was running flat and there wasn't much oomph. I agreed, as it was pretty shit when pulling away from roundabouts and junctions, as it would take ages to get to 50/60 mph. They said it could be the turbo (I have a reconditioned spare in the shed, so not the end of the world...) or it could be the AFM, which they recommended I look at first, as they said you can get them cheaply on Ebay. I got one for £25, it took 15 minutes for me to change and it made a world of difference. The performance is just as it was when I got it 5 years ago at 40k miles. It's now done 178k miles and that was the first 'engine' fix I've had to do on it.Some modern shite is OK

[chester drawers]

Replacement used engine loom for my S series-engined Montego 4 quid. Fuel & ignition ECUs (one of each on the Austin badged ones) a similar amount. Car back on the road after loom burn up in several places (inlet manifold heater dead short) for less than a tenner. A fire like this would write off most moderns.Replacement new (genuine) Lambda probe for my B5 series 1.8T Sport £89.12 + VAT (retail), air flow meter £75.50 + VAT (retail). OK, so I could have used second hand or patterns but I’m told by someone whose opinion I trust that the patterns don’t last and there was no guarentee used items would be any better than the knackered ones on the car.Old school car electronics for me ta!

[Pete-M]

Replacement used engine loom for my S series-engined Montego 4 quid. Fuel & ignition ECUs (one of each on the Austin badged ones) a similar amount. Car back on the road after loom burn up in several places (inlet manifold heater dead short) for less than a tenner. A fire like this would write off most moderns.Replacement new (genuine) Lambda probe for my B5 series 1.8T Sport £89.12 + VAT (retail), air flow meter £75.50 + VAT (retail). OK, so I could have used second hand or patterns but I’m told by someone whose opinion I trust that the patterns don’t last and there was no guarentee used items would be any better than the knackered ones on the car.Old school car electronics for me ta!

Bugger all you can do about Lambda sensors, got to have 'em really. They do last 80k miles on average though, so that's not too bad. Don't forget, all those extortionately priced bits on your Passat will have been equally as expensive on the Montego when that was current.

[chester drawers]

Bugger all you can do about Lambda sensors, got to have 'em really. They do last 80k miles on average though, so that's not too bad. Don't forget, all those extortionately priced bits on your Passat will have been equally as expensive on the Montego when that was current.

Fair dos! But at 9 years old the Audi's not really current either and when you factor in the other numerous and expensive failures it's had it just doesn't add up for me. Or rather it does - to too much money!Still I do see your point. I'd also wager that the demise of many a smaller independant could be at least partly attributed to a failure to invest in contemporary diagnostic equipment. Unless they're a marque specialist in something old (risky in itself as business proposition) I can't see how anyone operates without it.