Pajero: Pikey or passable?

[Justin Case]

if not 4wd how about one of those giant Volvo hearses with the rear bearer seats and huuuuge load area. (or even a 6 door limo, keep the division up and the kids/dogs can fight in the back and you can be oblivious in the front)

Such as :http://www.zenithclassics.co.uk/cars/fo ... imousine-2Not too funereal and boot looks big enough for the kids bikes

[Guest]

There's a funeral place near here still cracking on with one of those.

[Talbot]

There is, I think, 4" of difference between FWD and RWD Transit floors. I'd gladly lift stuff 4" higher if it meant I could pull away from junctions in the wet. Or even the dry.

Park a 1990 Transit next to a 1990 Talbot Express and you'll notice several things:There's more rust in the Transit.The floor in the Express is at least 6" lower, possibly more.The Express is a much nicer vehicle to drive, andThe Express can pull away just as well as the Transit. Better in the case of an unladen van as there's actually some weight over the driven wheels.I'm not rubbishing Transits, it's just that they were popular for a good reason: They were cheap. Unfortunately it shows! Buy a van that was expensive when it was new and you're getting a much better quality vehicle for a lesser price, as most people look at anything other than a transit, worry about parts availability etc and then go and buy a Transit, thus making the cheaply built van expensive, and the higher quality van cheaper.

[mirafioriman]

Land cruisers are the best 4 X 4 by far in my opinion. However, they do hold their value, they are heavy on fuel (petrol and diesel) and if you buy a cheap one it is likely that it will be pretty well worn and cost you lots of money unless you are really lucky.The Shogun/Pajero is not as good, but then it is not as expensive to buy either.Nissan patrols seem to be rarer are huge and in my opinion better than a shogun but not as good as a Cruiser.Then there is the Isuzu Trooper which to me is similar in quality to the Shogun.I'm not a fan of any of them particularly but have driven quite a few of the Trooper/Shogun/Cruiser and the odd patrol. If I had to have one of them it would be a Cruiser every time.

[Rusty Pelican]

Wifes sister lived in Tanzania for a few years , land crusers are the only thing that stayed in one piece out there , land rovers fell apart.

[Dukestar25]

TBH Pog, I'm amazed you are contemplating a grey import diesel, given that HGF is a regular feature on such motors as the Town Ace, Delica, Serena FX and the like.Sorry if the idea has already been put forward but did you consider something other than a 4X4?Ford Galaxy or similar?My current hack is a 97 Citroen Synergie. It has seven seats (or five and a huge boot) seats can be re-arranged/removed as required and although mine is the petrol 2.0i and quite thirsty, it's sooo reliable there are diesel versions too and you can have them with Peugeot 806 or Fiat Ulysse written on them if you prefer . just a thought...

[Pete-M]

I'm a bit sad that the idea of a 4x4 is getting such a caning here. I love 4x4s, think they're brilliant, and to be honest I expected them to get a better reception from Autoshiters. Looks like there have been a fair few victims of the tabloids anti-4x4 bullshit... I do hope I'm wrong.

[mirafioriman]

I just don't like to drive them. I don't like to sit so high up, don't like the way they feel like they will fall over when you go round a corner and basically if you don't go off road, tow a heavy trailer or drive in lots of snow on a regular basis you don't need one. It's just my personal opinion based on driving them and a large variety of cars.They are also all poor on fuel. I have heard some people say I get 40 to the gallon out of my Cruiser etc and it just aint true, you don't.

[wuvvum]

They are also all poor on fuel. I have heard some people say I get 40 to the gallon out of my Cruiser etc and it just aint true, you don't.

That is true. I used to get 28mpg out of my diesel Trooper on a run, and that was driving it sensibly. I thought that was rather pants for a diesel. The only 4x4 I've ever managed to get more than 30mpg out of was the SWB diesel Fourtrak, but that was also painfully slow.

[gearoil]

SWB diesel auto Trooper - like driving a big soft chair. I liked it.However, for maximum shite the ex post office LDV minibus is a winner.

[dollywobbler]

Sorry, I don't get 4x4s either. I had a Mk1 Trooper swb and it was the biggest sack of shit I've ever owned. Horrible to drive, crap off road (limited axle articulation and no built in towing points! Useful!) drank fuel like a dragster and climbed hills with all the grace of Bernard Manning.If you want to carry people, a people carrier has to be the way forward. Galaxy/Sharan/Alhaveyerhat are pretty dire though. LDV Pilot the best bet. They even still have a farting exhaust note, just like a Minor!

[Milford Cubicle]

A Mk1 Trooper isn't exactly the most sophisticated of 4x4s though, the mk2s are a lot more agreeable.

[dollywobbler]

Oh I know - the mk1 is about as refined as your average Friday night boozed up lass. In Luton. But I'm yet to drive a 4x4 that really appeals. Modern ones are obviously a lot better, but I just can't see the point. If I want to have a commanding driving position, I'll just buy a van.

[Pete-M]

Sorry, I don't get 4x4s either. I had a Mk1 Trooper swb and it was the biggest sack of shit I've ever owned. Horrible to drive, crap off road (limited axle articulation and no built in towing points! Useful!) drank fuel like a dragster and climbed hills with all the grace of Bernard Manning.If you want to carry people, a people carrier has to be the way forward. Galaxy/Sharan/Alhaveyerhat are pretty dire though. LDV Pilot the best bet. They even still have a farting exhaust note, just like a Minor!

Galhamraxys aren't that bad.. LDVs are the ultimate in shite though, I drove a few 54 plate ones recently and it was like driving a knackered old A reg Transit.As for 4x4s, I'm a huge fan of Range Rovers (I've had about 10) but I've not found many others I've liked. The Jap ones seem to be uniformly dull and the Yank ones are bloody huge and nasty inside.I got close to 35 mpg from a diesel Cherokee a few times, but it was a bloody horrible thing to drive.

[dollywobbler]

I'm probably being a bit mean about the Galaxy family as I've only driven a shagged out Sharan diesel auto and a Galaxy facelift with the 2.3 petrol and a slush box. Horrid!Surely the best shite way to move people is a Kia Sedona?

[FredTransit]

LDVs are the ultimate in shite though, I drove a few 54 plate ones recently and it was like driving a knackered old A reg Transit.

How very dare you sir! Even a knackered A reg transit is far batter than an LDV, the seats are much much nicer.....

[Pete-M]

LOL, yeah, but you must have driven a few really shagged out old ones where the diff whine drowns out everything. Including your thoughts.These LDVs were true shite. Ex parcel delivery jobs with one seat and bugger all else. No power, no direction changing apparatus appeared to be fitted - the steering wheel was apparantly just for decoration because the thing handled like a greased puppy on a laminate floor.

[Albert Ross]

Late into the fray, but I still can't believe nobody recommended a Nissan Serena yet.................slow, ugly, uneconomical, etc.....normally rusty/dented etc, but you just try to prise one out of the hands of the local Asian community..............!

[dollywobbler]

Toyota Space Cruiser! WINmobile!Serenas are truly awful. Drove a Vanette Cargo for a job once. Mind you, it was entertainingly tail happy in the wet! GR8 4 SHITE DRIFTING!

[Dukestar25]

Toyota Space Cruiser! WINmobile!Serenas are truly awful. Drove a Vanette Cargo for a job once. Mind you, it was entertainingly tail happy in the wet! GR8 4 SHITE DRIFTING!

You'd be lucky to find an original Space Cruiser these days (especially an MOTable one)The Serena is ok, but it's van-derived so has the virtues (and vices) of the Vanette Cargo. It's noisy at speed, slow in diesel form, not as refined or practical as, say, the Galaxy as the seats are not removeable without a spanner. In it's favour though, it is very well balanced when cornering (my 1.6GX was anyway), uses reliable Primera engines and can carry a considerable weight thanks to the cart springs at the back. Rust is their main enemy as the Spaniards that assembled them didn't tetrosyl them properly...

[Guest greenvanman]

Park a 1990 Transit next to a 1990 Talbot Express and you'll notice several things:There's more rust in the Transit.

First of all you'd have to find a 1990 Talbot Express. They were utter rust buckets, just like most other French stuff of that era. I've driven both and I wouldn't say the Talbot was in any way superior even to Transits earlier than 1990. As you say there are reasons why the Talbot didn't sell as well as the Transit, they're just not the ones you've given.

[Talbot]

First of all you'd have to find a 1990 Talbot Express. They were utter rust buckets, just like most other French stuff of that era.

The Talbot Express, like the Peugeot J5 it is badge engineered from, is a Spanish vehicle...You're right though.. you'll have difficulty finding one now, as they were rare enough in their day (1.5 times the cost of a new Transit) and are now completely unloved, as people don't understand them. Spend £900 on a new clutch*? Nope, I'll just buy a buggered old Transit instead.*This is mainly labour. The entire engine and box has to come out, and it's a bitch of a job.

[pogweasel]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LDV-Pilot-2001-da ... 0357916736

 

I have got to stop looking at these.

See they really tick alot of boxes: 5/6 seats (5 are 3-pointed belts and that's a must), space enough for the dogs' cage in the back AND anything else you need to carry, 1.9 PSA dizzla for not-too-horrible economy, plus you could easily bosh one of those pull-out awning / canopy affairs on the side...

 

Of course they rust horribly, are dog slow and are utterly vile to drive, plus you look like a cheap-ass peasant plodding along in one, but all of these are 'virtues' on this forum. Plus they are a fraction of the price of anything similar, almost to the point of disposability....

 

Luckily, I'd never get one past the domestic manager in a million years!

[Guest greenvanman]

Spend £900 on a new clutch*? Nope, I'll just buy a buggered old Transit instead.*This is mainly labour. The entire engine and box has to come out, and it's a bitch of a job.

Would this be an example of the superior design then?

[FredTransit]

Spend £900 on a new clutch*? Nope, I'll just buy a buggered old Transit instead.*This is mainly labour. The entire engine and box has to come out, and it's a bitch of a job.

Would this be an example of the superior design then?

I think you will find that's about the cost of a clutch/DMF kit on the new transit. THEN the labour! The last clutch I bought was £50, and took half a day to fit..... 900 quid would kill me. I love the way people think old vans and cars will be expensive on parts.....

[Talbot]

Spend £900 on a new clutch*? Nope, I'll just buy a buggered old Transit instead.*This is mainly labour. The entire engine and box has to come out, and it's a bitch of a job.

Would this be an example of the superior design then?

It would indeed. The Auxilliaries are all mounted on top of the gearbox, and driven from an extended in-block camshaft which goes through the bellhousing. This means that there is no crankshaft pulley, and so nothing to get in the way when doing a timing belt.Actually, it's a hang-up from the design of the engine, which can trace it's roots back to the Citroen Traction Avant. Because the engine was behind the front axle, driving through a transaxle with the timing end of the engine up against the bulkhead, there was no space for auxilliaries there, so they were all mounted on top of the gearbox instead. Same in a DS, same in a CX (from which the engine is actually taken)It makes the engine remarkably compact, allows the spare to be under the bonnet and gives you more passenger space.Like FredTransit though... £60 for a clutch and a day to fit it. Easy Peasy.

[mnde]

Hmm... Talbot Express, Citroens... I do believe I've finally put two and two together, Talbot sir

 

(It's bloody taken me long enough, seeing as there's no member list on here...)

 

 

Mark.

[marcus]

Have you tried 'Pajero' in a Spanish to English dictionary?

[FredTransit]

It's exactly the same, or were you getting a rude result?

[marcus]

Well, collins came up with 'sexual tosser' and it's, erm, equivalent.