Dual mass flywheels

[Barry Cade]

Whats the point? I've got 3 cars lying at work waiting for replacements, 55 Laguna, 55 Citroen C1 and a 52 Focus tdci.. all well under 100k with knackered flywheels... managed to get a solid flywheel kit for the Focus, bt not for the others... Ford wanted nearly 500 sovs for a flywheel, plus £££ more for a clutch, plus concentric cylinder plus a starter....If there was a huge benefit I'd understand, but all I see are big bills and unreliability.Does anyone know why?

[hotford00]

Absolutely no point to these things,I recently changed a clutch on an LDV convoy with one originally fitted, got a clutch kit from Unipart with a solid flywheel.The kit was cheaper by a long way than fitting a new dual mass flywheel and its made no difference to the vehicle whatsoever. Bin the dual mass crap and fit solid flywheels.

[Minimad5]

My dads reliable barge (97' Audi A4) has one of these dual mass flywheel thingie (So we both believe)Kinda worries the both of us as its done 112k and to our knowledge the clutch is standard Anyone know why its dual mass instead of solid "NORMALL" clutch

[Barry Cade]

Yup, A4's have them too, did a TDi one a while back. Changed a gearbox on a 400,000 mile A4 v6 2.5 tdi quattro a few weeks ago. It was on its 2nd engine, 2nd gearbox and 4th dual mass flywheelTriggers brush came to mind.. drove beautifully though!Valeo are making a whole range of DMF replacement flywheel kits, selling like hot cakes. many factors aren't even aware of them yet, but out there for Foucus,Mondeo and Octavia/VW group. Fit and forget..

[Minimad5]

Yup, A4's have them too, did a TDi one a while back. Changed a gearbox on a 400,000 mile A4 v6 2.5 tdi quattro a few weeks ago. It was on its 2nd engine, 2nd gearbox and 4th dual mass flywheelTriggers brush came to mind.. drove beautifully though!Valeo are making a whole range of DMF replacement flywheel kits, selling like hot cakes. many factors aren't even aware of them yet, but out there for Foucus,Mondeo and Octavia/VW group. Fit and forget..

Just out of curiosity how hard are they to replace on the A4 ?Any special tools needed ?And roughly how long would it take to do ? Thanks mate !

[Barry Cade]

Not a bad job at all, spline keys to remove the driveshafts,otherwise similar to an old fashioned RWD box.all done from underneath, so get it up as high as poss,half a day should do it,even in the drive.

[Minimad5]

Not a bad job at all, spline keys to remove the driveshafts,otherwise similar to an old fashioned RWD box.all done from underneath, so get it up as high as poss,half a day should do it,even in the drive.

Thanks mate appreciate the knowledge ;)Autoshite ... Not Just A Forum, But A Community

[shite_meister]

Duel Mass Flywheels are something to do with Turdo Denzils and the huge dollop of torque they produce in quite a small window as it were so they're there to make it smoother, would be interesting to see if they really do make a difference or whether its just there to stop the general punters whinging because its 'A little bit rough' I work in a garage (parts) that doos Lorreez and commercial shit (also have the LDV agency) I've seen bills for shit-loads on transits etc because the starter had worn the flywheel...which was all modified along with the DMF.

[Barry Cade]

I find the TDCi Fords the most embarrasingly easy cars ever to stall- especially Mondeo's for some reason... I'm considering a whiplash claim against uncle Henry . Call that smoothness?

[Richard]

I've read that some cars are unbearable to drive with the solid flywheel conversions. I think the VAG diesels were specifically mentioned.For a while I had a Citroen Xantia and C5 with the same engine- the HDi 110. The Xantia had a solid flywheel and the C5 a DMF.I can report that the Xantia's power delivery was perfectly smooth and extremely lively. The C5 just doesn't seem to go as well and I do partially blame the DMF. Half the power goes to compressing the springs instead of turning the wheels. I did consider breaking the Xantia for its flywheel, its current owner wishes I had.

[Mr Lobster]

I find the TDCi Fords the most embarrasingly easy cars ever to stall- especially Mondeo's for some reason... I'm considering a whiplash claim against uncle Henry . Call that smoothness?

I worked for Ford when they brought the TDCi engined Focus & Mondeo out. Huge numbers of customers came back complaining there was something wrong with the car and that it kept stalling. When you explained that it was just a characteristic of the car, nobody ever believed you either and were insistant it was defective

[mouseflakes]

DMF = arse gravyWe have a Multipla JTD with one. As the rubber has become tired the thing is more and more likely to stall when pulling away. Also, from what I understand, the increasing 'looseness' of the flywheel knackers the clutch as things go out of alignment - requiring a new clutch and massively expensive new flywheel when a car equipped with a solid flywheel might have another 50k left on the clutch.

[MrRegieRitmo]

I thought diesels were supposed to be harder to stall than petrol cars? I do find the Galaxy at work stalls easily, even when you know that it does & think that you've revved it hard enough. That's a diesel, not sure what engine though.

[dollywobbler]

I find the TDCi Fords the most embarrasingly easy cars ever to stall- especially Mondeo's for some reason... I'm considering a whiplash claim against uncle Henry . Call that smoothness?

I worked for Ford when they brought the TDCi engined Focus & Mondeo out. Huge numbers of customers came back complaining there was something wrong with the car and that it kept stalling. When you explained that it was just a characteristic of the car, nobody ever believed you either and were insistant it was defective

Wow. I'm so glad the above has been written! They're utter shite and very easy to stall yet whenever I say this, I always get shouted down as being 'wrong.' Some people do seem to think that the Blue Oval can do no wrong, despite much evidence to the contrary!Easy to stall, really peaky and utterly dead off-boost. They're shit. As has been said, the whole point of a diesel is that it has grunt, and doesn't stall easily.

[Mr Lobster]

No, they really are easy to stall. If you drive them everyday you get used to them but it is still easy! I quite liked the 115ps 1.8 TDCi lump installed in the last old shape Focus. That was quite nice and quite rapid in that installation but they have seemingly discontinued it with the 1.6 TDCi being the motor of choice now which is an all or nothing heap of junk.

[dollywobbler]

Yeah, with you on the Focus. For some reason, the 1.8 in the old shape was much nicer. I've driven Mondeos with the TDCi and TDDi and even the STD (nice one Ford!) and all were crap. In fact, the owner of the STD was one of those who took it back thinking there was something wrong with it...

[FredTransit]

The DMF on the transit is notorious. Another good reason not to have a new van! Bad enough in cars, but when your van is your livelihood you don't want the sensitivity of a rally car! Average replacement cost is £600 on the transit, but the Valleo solid replacement seems to have been well received with van owners....

[Station]

Golf dual-mass. I think take clutch out is a pain in the ass anyway and another few hours fairly insignificant!!

 

 

 

 

It says they have the slave cylinder on the INSIDE of the gearbox! GENIUS!

 

 

Interesting thread here:

 

http://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbt ... _days.html

[Barry Cade]

Most cars seem to have the slave inside the box now, seems daft,as the box has to come out for a leaking seal... I remember Saab 9000's being like that in the 90's.. first I saw of it.Finished the Focus today with the solid flywheel conversion, sweet as, no extra vibration, starts much better,and no more DMF worries.Cheaper too!

[Pete-M]

Yup, A4's have them too, did a TDi one a while back. Changed a gearbox on a 400,000 mile A4 v6 2.5 tdi quattro a few weeks ago. It was on its 2nd engine, 2nd gearbox and 4th dual mass flywheel

I had a 200,000 mile A6 V6 TDi that I had to replace the DMF on. That was its first replacement, so I must have done well.

[pogweasel]

I don't even know what a dual mass flywheel is. Is that wrong?Who was it asked about being harder to stall a diesel? Well the modern ones are shit. Old dizzlas let the clutch out at tick over and off you go. New ones need some welly to get moving. If this is because of this DMF, then it's a cack retrograde step. The heap of shit Astra I had last year was terrible for stalling if you weren't enthusiastic enough pulling away, and my current Kangoo is wank too. I managed to stall it about 4 times in a minute the other day. However the old TDDI thing we have had in both the Focii are marvellous - 800rpm with 1000kg of trailer grot on the back and your rolling. Admittedly you never go anywhere very fast and they are about as refined as a kick in the bollocks, but who cares. We tried a TDCi version and it was poo. Great on the motorway, but you needed to be wellying it all the time to get it moving round town or to gain momentum. Toss.

[Barry Cade]

Yup, It was a TDCi 115 Focus, went like stink on boost, but pretty dire off it.

 

A Dual Mass flywheel is where instead of having springs on the clutch plate, you have springs,gear and some magic inside the flywheel itself,with a solid clutch plate. Its these springs etc which let go, giving about an inch or so of movement between the crankshaft side and the clutch side, sounds horrible and obviously leads to problems taking up drive etc. On the A4 I did, the 2 sections were not really connected anymore, leading to loss of drive sometimes...

 

On the Focus,the crank sensor runs off the flywheel, and with this movement the timing was all over the place,and it was a reet bugger to start...

 

STOOPID BLOODY THINGS!

 

[Volksy]

Heres an animation of how they work.

 

[pogweasel]

Cripes!

[Barry Cade]

and a short video of how they dont...

 

 

Thats 3 or 400 quids worth of scrap...

[Barry Cade]

£344.94 to be exact... + 170 quid for the clutch

 

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Skoda ... 498a8496b6

 

OR £141 for a solid conversion kit, including the clutch...

 

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Skoda ... b0dd2603dc

[Richard]

No justification for them at all- just design the fucking engine properly in the first place.

[ayd]

glad this came up, mate brought round his Octavia Estate last week, after a quick drive I suggested the Dual Mass Flywheel and Skoda have confirmed it today and offered to pay 70% of the cost even though the cars 2 months out of warranty.