Project Allo Allo, Topless French fancy or Pug deux-zero-cinq or how to fix fuel injection without resorting to fire or insanity

[Tamworthbay]

No response, who would have thought it?

 

And the Renner stereo appears dead just sits there saying code and then beeps no matter what button I press.

[purplebargeken]

Quelle suprise!

[Tamworthbay]

Tried again using every internet trick going but the Renner stereo refuses to play. So off to the tip shop, doubtbthey will have anything so beautifully old though.

[Scruffy Bodger]

is it a Clarion? Some need to sit for longer and longer before you can input more codes, literally hours after too many attempts. Even if it's locked out there are places about that can blow the chip to bring them back to life. Whether you want to  blow 20 quid on a 5 quid but impossible to find stereo is up to you.

[Tamworthbay]

is it a Clarion? Some need to sit for longer and longer before you can input more codes, literally hours after too many attempts. Even if it's locked out there are places about that can blow the chip to bring them back to life. Whether you want to  blow 20 quid on a 5 quid but impossible to find stereo is up to you.

I tried leaving it on all night and no go, I then tried opening it up and shorting the connections as per internet people I have never meta bets advice and still nothing. It owes me nothing and isn’t original to the car, I am just pathologically averse to throwing things away without tried far too many times to fix them.

[paulscavalier]

Just messaged two more, I must like wasting time..........

Not just me then .. I have tried several different people breaking 405s for pieces and most didn’t reply then one said yes so I thought great. When it came to posting it he didn’t want to know and asked if I would get them. I declined as it would be too expensive in fuel to go get them. So that was that. Another person basically kept stalling saying yes will get back to you soon and he didn’t after being reminded. Waste of my time and effort

[Tamworthbay]

Not just me then .. I have tried several different people breaking 405s for pieces and most didn’t reply then one said yes so I thought great. When it came to posting it he didn’t want to know and asked if I would get them. I declined as it would be too expensive in fuel to go get them. So that was that. Another person basically kept stalling saying yes will get back to you soon and he didn’t after being reminded. Waste of my time and effort

Still no replies one is particularly annoying as I took pics and sent them, he removed the part and sent pics back, I said yes and asked for payment details, then nothing......... It’s not big sums of money but a tenner here and there helps and they soon add up if you are breaking a car.

[Tamworthbay]

Being a tightwad I haven’t taxed the Pug yet as didn’t want to give the government all that cash for a weeks driving. Forecast for next week is shite but I will still be top down from Monday!

[Tamworthbay]

There was an advisory on the MoT for corrosion so this morning seemed a good time to have a look. The soundproofing was sodden and disintegrating when I lifted it so that has been binned. The cover was wet but OK so is drying in the sun as we speak. I am not sure whether to bother with a replacement piece of sound proofing as it will only trap more moisture. The edges of the boot have been previously welded to an OK standard so I will just clean them back and repaint. I plan to get new shocks so will do the underside at the same time as I do them. All looks ok otherwise though. It’s a common grot spot for 205s so not surprising it’s seem some work in the past.

[Tamworthbay]

Its taxed! I did it this morning so I could use it for work. It's a lot of fun but I had forgotten what dicks some people are when you are in a small car. Just had to verbally rip a second arsehole for a cock in a transit that nearly took me out then came out with the great line' sorry mate thought you were a woman' so that would have made it ok?

 

Idle still isn't right despite my best efforts. It was sat around 3k (guess as no rev counter) but I disconnected and reconnected the icv with the engine running and note it's lower but erratic. I have put some fresh fuel in bit that doesn't seem to have made a difference yet. It also seems to get hot really quick, no temp gauge on these but rad was hot after three miles and heater 'smelt hot' if you know what I mean. Any ideas of this is normal from the 205 owners on here? Once you are rolling it's great fun and so many people have been asking me about it at work today.

[Tamworthbay]

Looks like bleeding the system is a job for tonight as the fan was on when I got back after a gentle three mile dual carriageway drive.

 

The ICV seems central to the problematic idle issue. When I unplug it and then plug it back in the idle returns to normal bit will then go high at a later time. Does anyone know where the two temperature sensors are? I think one is in the throttle body, the other in a hose somewhere but not sure where.

[Marm Toastsmith]

It also seems to get hot really quick, no temp gauge on these but rad was hot after three miles and heater 'smelt hot' if you know what I mean. Any ideas of this is normal from the 205 owners on here?

 

Mine smells slightly of hot/burning oil once warmed up. I think it's where oil blown from the leaky breather hose sits on the manifold. I did clean it up and replace the hose (with the help of Ken and Jack) but it still smells... Should have a look really but I generally accept it as old car character...

 

No temperature guage as you say, but there is a warning light... which has never come on despite extended idling on a sunny day in heavy trafic. I don't think I've ever heard the rad fan come on either come to mention it. I'd feel happier if it had a temperature guage but I guess no news is good news.

[Tamworthbay]

Had a complete result tonight. Walking the dog, I was chatting to a guy I have known via dogs for a few years. He has projects, I have projects, you know how it goes. He had spotted the CJ on the drive and asked about it so I mentioned the good bits and the idle issue. I knew he used to work for Rover, it turns out he was responsible for making the Bosch single point injection work on Rover cars! So we had a quick 30 minutes diagnostic session which allowed him to rule out a few things and point strongly towards the Throttle pot being at fault and throwing everything else out. He is going to drop by later in the week for a full on fault finding session and I have laready bought a spare throttle body before I got the car so with any luck I will have the bits needed. With any luck we can finally get this problem nailed!

[purplebargeken]

Yay.

 

Does it have a new thermostat by any chance?

[Tamworthbay]

Yay.

 

Does it have a new thermostat by any chance?

No idea to be honest, I haven’t fitted one. Is this a known issue? I bled it earlier and not much air came out.

[purplebargeken]

Might be worthwhile lobbing in a new one as a matter of course mate. 

[strangeangel]

Yay.

 

Does it have a new thermostat by any chance?

 

Not by my hand it hasn't.

[Tamworthbay]

A flush was on the to do list anyway so will do that at the same time.

[purplebargeken]

Flush and new thermostat are probably very good ideas, especially with summer just around the corner*.

[Tamworthbay]

Quick update on where I am with the fuel injection. I now understand how the system works which is very helpful for diagnosis and after spending a bit of time checking things I think we are within touching distance of a solution. What is happening is that the ICV will continually adjust, much more than normal, and this causes the erratic idle. There are a few possible reasons for this but they mostly point to three components with two, and their associated wiring, being most likely. This system doesn’t have a MAF of any sort and determines air flow by the throttle potentiometer and the crank sensor. The throttle pot tells the ecu where the butterfly is and the crank sensor tells it how fast the engine is going. The temp sensor in the throttle body could also be at fault, but less likely as it wouldn’t produce the fast errors in the ICV. The crank sensor is also unlikely to be at fault as the fuelling is ok at speed, were it failing you would expect rough running further up the Rev range. When I unplugged the throttle potbthe ICV stopped its chattering and it idled ok until I plugged it back in. So it appears that the ICV doesn’t know what the throttle position is and the ECu is struggling to work out what is going on. It could be the throttle pot, the wiring, or the ECU. Luckily I have spares of the throttle body (the pot isn’t available separately as is matched to the body) and the ecu. On Friday the injection genius and myself are going to have a go and see if we can sort it out. For the first time though I feel I am going at it from a position of knowledge which always helps!

[purplebargeken]

^^ Brilliant news mate.

[Tamworthbay]

Thanks to Njgleeds a nice package arrived today:

 

Not brakes discs but a nice stereo for the Pug. Now fitted and worked but I need to fiddle about and route the cables better to get it sitting perfect.

[Marm Toastsmith]

 Now fitted and worked but I need to fiddle about and route the cables better to get it sitting perfect.

 

 It's tight back there!

[Tamworthbay]

It's tight back there!

Sure bloody is!

[Tamworthbay]

Crap ECP have failed to deliver so no new air filter to stick in (it seems a cursed item as had two wrong ones from different places) and can’t do the coolant change as no thermostat to swap out but will be having a go at the fuel injection after getting a bit of food.

[Tamworthbay]

Much technically stuff woz dun, graphs an evryfin. As suspected the throttle pot was the issue but in a complicated way that made it a beggar to diagnose. I will do a full explanation when I have time. Having a spare throttle body I dropped the bottom half only to find the new one has a smaller butterfly. Using the principle of ‘what’s the worst that could happen?’ We worked out that with less air going through than the injector was mapped for it would run rich but otherwise should work. A few minutes later we were proved right and it belted off up the road and idled happily. Result! Well almost, it’s flat as a witches tit below about 1500rpm so a bit more clutch is needed to get going. I will source the correct sized body ASAP and also sort a couple of or leaks we identified and all should be good! My Scottish expert Ronnie was fantastic and thought the name of our beloved forum was hilarious. I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns up on here with his old defender.

[The Moog]

Yo TWB any chance of a photo of where your horn is located?

[Tamworthbay]

Yo TWB any chance of a photo of where your horn is located?

Will get one for you in a bit, no idea where it is though! Guessing down by the rad somewhere?

[Tamworthbay]

Yo TWB any chance of a photo of where your horn is located?

There was me thinking it would be simple! The horn is tucked away under the light unit and pretty much impossible to get a pic of. Every attempt just shows a random jumble of wires. The Haynes book of lies says you need to remove the light to access it that's a bit stupid.

[Tamworthbay]

Did an idle reset and went for another drive, it's ok but not as good as it should be. Looking for another throttle body the danger size as mine as that should sort it properly. Finding one may be fun though.