Chinese Carbs

[AMC Rebel]

Depending on the model, Ali-Express throws up a few 2 barrel holley clones.

Thanks - interesting

[DaveDorson]

I've had a card telling me I've missed a delivery.  I'll collect it Thursday.

 

Could it be?

 

Or perhaps it's the rest of the parts for the ECU I'm building for when the carbs are utter dog turd and I end up giving up on that and going EFI with bike throttle bodies instead?

[DodgeRover]

I've had a card telling me I've missed a delivery. I'll collect it Thursday.

 

Could it be?

 

Or perhaps it's the rest of the parts for the ECU I'm building for when the carbs are utter dog turd and I end up giving up on that and going EFI with bike throttle bodies instead?

Is this the speeduino? I have a goldfish memory sorry.

Will it do spark only to try it with the carbs?

[DaveDorson]

Is this the speeduino? I have a goldfish memory sorry.

Will it do spark only to try it with the carbs?

 

I've got a speeduino yes.

 

It does fuel and spark if you need it to, you can do ignition only though yes.

[rusty_vw_man]

I had a set of Chinese Empi HMPX which I ran on a 1.9 WBX in a VW T25. 

 

I was told they would never work, that kittens would die and I was an idiot. At least 66% of this proved to be untrue. 

 

After some playing with jetting, I found that the biggest issue with them was that all jets and calibrated orifices were not in fact calibrated at all, but more of a rough guess. All four main jets as provided were slightly different sizes for example. Quality control is not that good.   

 

Replacing these with higher quality jets made the world of difference, and they ran really well in the end, gave around 23mpg on a 2 tonne camper with high top doing 12,000 miles a year.

 

 Be interesting to see how you get on with yours....

[DaveDorson]

I had a set of Chinese Empi HMPX which I ran on a 1.9 WBX in a VW T25. 

 

I was told they would never work, that kittens would die and I was an idiot. At least 66% of this proved to be untrue. 

 

After some playing with jetting, I found that the biggest issue with them was that all jets and calibrated orifices were not in fact calibrated at all, but more of a rough guess. All four main jets as provided were slightly different sizes for example. Quality control is not that good.   

 

Replacing these with higher quality jets made the world of difference, and they ran really well in the end, gave around 23mpg on a 2 tonne camper with high top doing 12,000 miles a year.

 

 Be interesting to see how you get on with yours....

 

Cheers.

I suspect mine are from the same place as the EMPI ones, there can't be that many people making knock off weber IDF's after all.

 

I know a few people who've done OK with the EMPI kits, after taking them apart and cleaning them out a bit, then actually setting them up.

 

To be honest, even a brand new weber IDF should have all that done before fitting in my eyes.  Nothing is ready to bolt on, especially after market air cooled VW stuff.

[rusty_vw_man]

To be honest, even a brand new weber IDF should have all that done before fitting in my eyes.

 

This is so very true. There appears to be a myth that you buy twin carbs 'ready jetted' and just bolt them on - I've seen people who haven't even attempted to balance them start slagging them off as unsurprisingly they run like crap. 

 

After some fiddling with them, I did find that linkage setup played a huge part in how well they balanced and performed, but this has nothing to do with them being Chinese. The generic hex bar linkage is not that great and I did have issues with my balls wearing down a bit quick (no sniggering at the back). Depending what you are bolting it too there may well be better linkage options - I really wanted the cable sync linkage (https://www.limebug.com/product/view/2128/sync-link-throttle-linkage-ida-idf-delortto) but it cost more than the carbs!

 

Here's mine built and awaiting fitting - unlike the web pictures they are entirely unbranded and come in a discrete plain brown box, so I reckon they all come out the same factory:

 

[DaveDorson]

That limebug linkage looks easily replicable with some push bike cables and motorbike parts .

[Faker]

The Chinese downdraught carbs used by the bug tuners over in N.I. seem to be a good job.

[DaveDorson]

I've got some carburettors, but I've also got a load of stuff I need to do before I can unbox them.

 

 

I've also got a full speeduino ECU now too.

[DaveDorson]

I should have some time to do a bit of an unboxing and initial impressions tonight.

 

And yeah, my life really has been that hectic of late.

 

You'll be glad to know both have arrived though, and from the first one I removed from the packaging, they actually look very reasonable.  They're not on par with a good Italian casting, but I don't think I'll see an OMG POURUS CARB FAILURE from first impressions.

[DaveDorson]

Right then... No jet measuring kit in the house so no strip down but here's what about £100 buys you.

 

IMG_20181023_204824961 by davedorson, on Flickr

 

 

IMG_20181023_204847958 by davedorson, on Flickr

 

IMG_20181023_204922779 by davedorson, on Flickr

[Jim Bell]

Well it looks the part!

[DodgeRover]

Do they come with an assortment of jets?

[DaveDorson]

Initial impressions, they're a good stater for 10, but they need a strip and clean. The mating surfaces aren't fabulous however a gasket would help it out.

 

IMG_20181023_204945092 by davedorson, on Flickr

 

IMG_20181023_205023255 by davedorson, on Flickr

 

IMG_20181023_205000863 by davedorson, on Flickr

[DaveDorson]

A finer details shows some pretty poor finishing to be honest.

 

IMG_20181023_205037740 by davedorson, on Flickr

 

IMG_20181023_205128947 by davedorson, on Flickr

 

IMG_20181023_205137611 by davedorson, on Flickr

[DaveDorson]

IMG_20181023_205104063 by davedorson, on Flickr

 

IMG_20181023_205333982 by davedorson, on Flickr

[DaveDorson]

So that's what a £100 copy of a £500 Weber IDF looks like folks. I reckon with some cleaning up, provided the jets and stuff are all correct, they could be made to work as well as a set of proper Weber's and will probably out perform a worn out set. The chrome on the trumpets feels awful, which is fully expected. As said, they're not as nice as Italian bodied stuff but they're not awful. The Spanish made Weber's you can buy now seem to have a lot of the same shoddy machining and casting imperfections that these have too. The real acid test will be seeing if I can make them work on an engine and if that then makes power comparable to Italian carbs.

[DaveDorson]

So that's what a £100 copy of a £500 Weber IDF looks like folks. I reckon with some cleaning up, provided the jets and stuff are all correct, they could be made to work as well as a set of proper Weber's and will probably out perform a worn out set. The chrome on the trumpets feels awful, which is fully expected. As said, they're not as nice as Italian bodied stuff but they're not awful. The Spanish made Weber's you can buy now seem to have a lot of the same shoddy machining and casting imperfections that these have too. The real acid test will be seeing if I can make them work on an engine and if that then makes power comparable to Italian carbs.

[DaveDorson]

Do they come with an assortment of jets?

Nope, just the same stuff that the kits for air cooled engines come with, which is about right for the 1679cc Porsche 914 engine I'm going to slap them on.

[DaveDorson]

Just to point out, these are a 40mm carb but like the other Chinese copies of Weber's that the VW aftermarket enjoys, they're actually based on a Weber 44idf casting. The only difference being venturies. The jets are all interchangeable with Weber IDF ones

[DodgeRover]

I'm fully expecting you to be able to get these set up and working just as well as an original set. Most of the moans re Chinese carbs on bikes were due to people just slapping one on and expecting it just to work with no thought for actually jetting it something like...

[N Dentressangle]

Nothing like as complex, but the Chinese Zenith copy on my old Land Rover Series works a treat. For £40, smooth idling, decent^* mpg, and 10 mins to fit.

 

The LR forums were also full of woe - death by tidal tsunami, all relatives mysteriously killed etc - but I think it's done 2 years now and gives no trouble.

 

You'll be fine.

[tooSavvy]

Well it looks the part!

.... Question is = do they come apart (...and go back OK)

[DaveDorson]

.... Question is = do they come apart (...and go back OK)

 

 

I did take the top off one last night when I couldn't sleep, but I didn't have my phone with me to take any pictures.

 

To be honest, they're absolutely what I expected.  Full of machining oil, need a good clean, and some signs of swarf, but nothing I've not had with "new" Italian carbs too.

[tooSavvy]

Might I make an obvious statement...

 

Who buys *all these carbs

 

*assuming a 'not getting bigger' pool of ICE drivers and volumes??

[DaveDorson]

Might I make an obvious statement...

 

Who buys *all these carbs

 

*assuming a 'not getting bigger' pool of ICE drivers and volumes??

 

these ones specifically?  The Volkswagen and Porsche 914 after market.

 

Italian webers and dellorto supply dries up and buying kits new from Weber is expensive.  Dellorto are NLA, and you don't find Alfa 33's in scrap yards like you used to.

They also get used by ford guys making RS2000 recreations, and people who use them for banger racing who want to eek additional performance out of a car, but can't use EFI because safety.  As this bygone performance stuff gets older, it gets rarer, but people that tinker with this stuff are usually so scared of electronics, they won't use fuel injection, even though Megasquirt and others have made this firmly a DIYable option.

[tooSavvy]

Agreed.... We don't actually know the 'Chinese model' of a decent break even price.

 

They may use lost wax but on a massive scale... Rather than a pressure die casting system.

[martc]

 

 

'Maxpeeding Rods (also known as maxspeeding rods) Taking Leaps Into Your Vehicle' - that's just fantastic.

 

And here he is - Max P Dingrod...

 

[1duck]

I've had a few Chinese carbs for garden stuff, they seem OK plus they were about 6 quid instead of 30 quid for the real deal. It was about 2 quid more than a rebuild kit so I thought why not.