International motoring laws

[FredTransit]

I don't know how many people on here are not from the UK, but I was just wondering what the laws relating to car owning and driving are in other countries. For the none UK members, here's the basics.you buy a car, you get a document called the V5, commonly called a log book. You fill this out and send it to the DVLA, who keeps record of the registered keeper. The registered keeper and owner are usually the same person or company, but the V5 alone doesn't make you the legal owner.When a car reaches 3 years old, it has to pass an inspection called the MOT test. This has to be done/passed every year from then onTo drive on the road, a driver has to have insurance by law. The legal minimum is third party insurance.Once the car is insured, and has (or doesn't need) and MOT, to be used and kept on the road it needs road tax. This can be bought online at the DVLA's website, or in person at the post office. Now somebody tell me what's involved in getting a driving license these days, as all I did was take lessons, do a brief road sign/theory test (in the car) and pass the actual driving bit of the test.I am hoping that forum members from or living in other countries can fill me in on what's involved in owning and driving a car there.

[Pillock]

I'll fill in the licencey bit.You need to be 16 to apply for a provisional, but must be 17 to actually get behind the wheel. The provisional entitles you to drive a car when accompanied by a responsible passenger who must be aged 21 or over with three years driving experience. The car must display "L" plates front and rear when being driven by a driver on a provisional licence.Once you have your provisional, you may then apply for a theory test. It's computer-based, they ask you 50 questions and you need to get 43 right. Bizarrely, the time limit is 57 minutes.Then you sit the second part which is Hazard Perception. Computer-based again, they show you 14 video clips and you need to click the mouse when you see a hazard. One of the clips has two hazards, the rest just one. You get a maximum of five points for spotting the hazard early and thus you get scored out of 75, with the pass mark being 50.Then, you can go out and do your drivey-drivey test once you've passed both parts of the theory. Note that failing one part of the theory means you have to sit the lot again, not just the part you failed! The practical test hasn't changed much in decades, you get about 30 minutes of driving around a route chosen on the fly by the examiner. It'll include two maneuvers from reversing around a corner, turning in the road (three-point turn to the oldies) and reverse parallel park. You'll also do an emergency stop, but the rest is just normal driving.You can get 15 'minor' faults and still pass, but the 16th results in a fail. You will also fail for a 'major' fault which is stuff like overshooting junctions.As soon as you pass both theory and practical, you get your licence and are free to cause mayhem. The only stipulation is that your points allowance is halved to 6 for the first two years.

[pogweasel]

Christ, all sounds a bit complicated these days!Much easier when the only 'theory' element was when they showed you a stop sign & asked what it meant (I kid you not). Do they still pick random parking manoevres out of a hat? I got parallel parking, for which I was well chuffed, cos it's piss easy, and to this day I still can't reverse around a corner properly without either mounting the kerb and running over old ladies & kittens or ending up 6ft from the kerb...

[Pillock]

Haha, the Stop sign is a good choice since it's one of the few that says what it means :)They pick two from the three listed, I got reverse park (aced it) and 'turning in the road using forward and reverse gears' where I stalled twice and got two minors as a result.I got two more minors for taking the racing line around the A38 - dual carriageway on a bend. I thought starting in lane two, clipping the apex in lane 1 and then back out to two was genius, but all I got was one cross for each time I crossed the line. Bitch. There was no way a Rover 114 was staying at 60 without some ingenuity.

[r.welfare]

Christ, all sounds a bit complicated these days!Much easier when the only 'theory' element was when they showed you a stop sign & asked what it meant (I kid you not). Do they still pick random parking manoevres out of a hat? I got parallel parking, for which I was well chuffed, cos it's piss easy, and to this day I still can't reverse around a corner properly without either mounting the kerb and running over old ladies & kittens or ending up 6ft from the kerb...

IIRC (I passed my test in '94) the "theory" bit happened after the road test, in the car park of the test centre, where the examiner would show you some signs and ask their meanings, plus (if you were unlucky) braking distances.8 minors I had I think, 4 for being too cautious. Nothing at all to do with the gutless wonder of a 55bhp Polo 1.3 that the AA instructor had provided!

[mattblack]

The car must display "L" plates front and rear when being driven by a driver on a provisional licence.

But 99.9% of people just leave the 'L' plates on all the time...

[Pillock]

The car must display "L" plates front and rear when being driven by a driver on a provisional licence.

But 99.9% of people just leave the 'L' plates on all the time...

Yes, and that royally hacks me off. Seeing a car with L plates on, and just the driver in.... are they a learner? Are they likely to do something daft? Do I need to call the cops if they're out on their own?I had a motorway lesson after I passed my test, and used the same AA instructer who'd got me through my test. First thing he did was ceremonially remove the L plates and put them in the boot, since I had my full licence

[VWPowered]

in france get caught spending can = big $$$$and they can ban you instantly

[FredTransit]

So how do you buy a car? What do you need to keep it on the road? Does it have a yearly or bi yearly check? Tell me cos I have wondered.

[VWPowered]

buy a car fill of a certificate de cession (abit like a overgrown logbook filling in session designed to take as long as it takes to consume a bottle of cognac) just yours and the sellers details and the vehicles of cause..its actually illegal to buy a vehicle without a CT (it must have over 18 months left since it was done last) and you wont get the paperwork in france into your name unless it has a CT, it is also illegal to keep a vehicle and not have assurance, whether the vehicle works or has been in a field for 20 years as in the eyes of the law, it could still get stolen....)vehicle tests... for a car over 4 years old and under 30 it is every 2 yearsover 30 is now every 5 years, motorbikes still don't need a CT insurance is cheap, some insurers will write you out a ticket there and then if your taking a contract (but if the contract comes and it err didnt arrive you get a free months insurance ) its how i move most of my cars about...

[pogweasel]

The car must display "L" plates front and rear when being driven by a driver on a provisional licence.

But 99.9% of people just leave the 'L' plates on all the time...

Mostly as they are all now stuck on (or at least magnetic). As a lifelong shiter, mine were fastened to the car with string, usually not quite square either. Long time ago now though.

[andrew e]

So VWP, you find a car (or Merc!) ina field with CT - how do you buy it?

[Guest]

So VWP, you find a car (or Merc!) ina field with CT - how do you buy it?

You fill out the carte gris and send it off?The CT is the 'controle technique' or French MOT isn' it?

[FredTransit]

Yeah I was wondering that, is CT an MOT or V5? If it's V5 (registration) how does it have time left on it? Do registrations expire in France?

its actually illegal to buy a vehicle without a CT (it must have over 18 months left since it was done last)

If the CT is proof of road worthiness, why is it illegal to buy a car without one? If a car has been left unused for years, how do you get a test done on it? What happens if you want to sell a car that's not got a test? Do you have to scrap it?

[VWPowered]

it highly unlikey to have a CT (yes Controle Technique) but you can still buy it, it's just to get the paperwork into your name it HAS to have a CT but i know alot of people who have old cars who keep them in there previous owners names and rattle around.. you hav 10 spots for the CT sticker on the Carte Gris before you'd have to get a new one..

[FredTransit]

Ah right, so the CT is like out

[Richard]

When I passed my test in 1987 the examiner wasn't permitted to discuss details of the test. If you passed you got a certificate with no indication of minor faults. If you failed you got a checklist. It would tell you what you failed on but not where or when. I failed for driving at the wrong speed but it didn't even say whether I was too fast or too slow.

[VWPowered]

yes but unless you live here you wouldnt need to do that, i'm sure an up to date carte gris along with bill of sale is enough for beginning the proceedings of getting a french vehicle onto uk plates??..happens alot too, alot of the 'tuners' send vehicles to the uk, reg them up, get the work done VR6 transplant etc being it back to france on its 'UK' plates then go through the DRIRE to register it (its actually easier than doing the paperwork in france for changing an engine... total madness..

[VWPowered]

When I passed my test in 1987 the examiner wasn't permitted to discuss details of the test. If you passed you got a certificate with no indication of minor faults. If you failed you got a checklist. It would tell you what you failed on but not where or when. I failed for driving at the wrong speed but it didn't even say whether I was too fast or too slow.

i failed the first time, kinda forgot he was sat next to me, came up to a roundabout saw a space, dropped it down afew clogs and booted it over the roundabout... he wasn't amused...

[Andrew353w]

I'm so old I took my test is 1977, when you still had to do hand signals-no, honestly! The examiner pulled me into the side of the road (somewhere in rural Barnstaple!) and informed me he wished me to use hand signals for the next part of the test. I did so and DIDN'T use the car's indicators, although I couldn't exactly stop the brake lights coming when I slowed! You do feel a bit silly doing these, as even in 1977 they weren't that common.A year or 2 ago I applied to be an driving examiner with the D.S.A. On the 2 HOUR driving test (phew!) I had to use hand signals again; the first time I'd done so in some 30 years!Andrew353w

[r.welfare]

Interesting insight into car ownership in France, VWPowered. Why do I see so many RHD cars on French plates here - presumably they belong to ex-pats who are back in the old country, but why not just buy a French secondhand motor instead of re-registering their Sierra (or whatever)?I seem to recall someone telling me that if you live in Italy and you're not an Italian resident (so that covers the retired ex-pat community, basically), you can't even buy an Italian reg'd car, so you have the hassle of running a UK-plated car (usually LHD) all the time, and have to bring it back once a year for an MOT.

[dollywobbler]

I think the main reason is cost. Second-hand values are much stronger en France, or so I've been told. Wisely, the French seem to value cars that are perfectly useable, just a little bit older than new, unlike us Brits, who seem to clamour for the latest thing, and then move on.

[FredTransit]

When I passed my test in 1987 the examiner wasn't permitted to discuss details of the test. If you passed you got a certificate with no indication of minor faults. If you failed you got a checklist. It would tell you what you failed on but not where or when. I failed for driving at the wrong speed but it didn't even say whether I was too fast or too slow.

That's odd, I failed my first test and was told - positioning at junctions and slightly crossing the the broken white line with my back wheel (nothing coming). I don't know what was up with him, I didn't hit anything!!

[scooters]

I really approve of the variable speed limit on french Autoroutes which I seem to recall is 130 kph (about 80ish) in the dry and 110 kph in nast weather/visibility.very sensible - with my 30k odd iles a year it never ceases to amaze me how some drivers just don't get that just because the sppedlimit is thus doesn't mean it is safe to drive at it!

[nigel bickle]

Agree with VWP. Its near impossible for my French mate to register half his cars (London Cab, Figaro,Skyline,Caterham & numerous modified 2cv's) without importing them to UK; registering them here then returning (-with V5c) to France. They HAVE to register them then, under EU law; but there seems no mechanism in France to dealwith 'misfits'.CT's a scam too. Bejesus -the stuff that can get through that on an ''advisory''- making it road legal for 2years! I own a few....& thats without 'opting out'-as long as you keep it local (finally being phased out-I understand)Finally-I love the CG (CarteGris/grey card -V5c). If you've 'lost it' - you're stuffed - cant have another without producing yours. Noduplicates....So- vehicle becomes effectively worthless (spares only)- unless you bring it to the UK-of course!

[Rocket88]

On Jersey, the test is based on UK lines, but car ownership is completely different. We don't have an annual MOT test, and we don't pay road tax. That was scrapped in the early nineties, and the price of fuel was increases accoringly [we pay about 10p less per litre than in the UK] Instaed, you have to display a windscreen insurance disc instaed of a tax disc [issued by the insurance company when you pay your premium] The lack of an MOT doesn't seem to cause many problems, we have very few accidents/injuries/deaths due to defective vehicles.

[VWPowered]

Interesting insight into car ownership in France, VWPowered. Why do I see so many RHD cars on French plates here - presumably they belong to ex-pats who are back in the old country, but why not just buy a French secondhand motor instead of re-registering their Sierra (or whatever)?I seem to recall someone telling me that if you live in Italy and you're not an Italian resident (so that covers the retired ex-pat community, basically), you can't even buy an Italian reg'd car, so you have the hassle of running a UK-plated car (usually LHD) all the time, and have to bring it back once a year for an MOT.

yes french secondhand cars hold their values very well around here (no public transport so a car is a necessity so alot of english bring their crusty astras/mondeos etc over here, funny thing is cars that age fetch about the same money here i mean my polo was only 300notes with full 2 years ticket by law here you shopuld re-register a vehicle onto french plates after six months (change headlights, letter of confirmatly from the manuafcter, get it CT's then get the paperwork changed, but i know plenty of uk cars here sat without a valid tax disc (fair dues as its not needed here) and no green assurance sticker etc in the windscreen, which means its proberly being driven illegally, which is great till you have a accident or get pulled by 'les flics' and they take your license there and then..

[r.welfare]

On Jersey, the test is based on UK lines, but car ownership is completely different. We don't have an annual MOT test, and we don't pay road tax. That was scrapped in the early nineties, and the price of fuel was increases accoringly [we pay about 10p less per litre than in the UK] Instaed, you have to display a windscreen insurance disc instaed of a tax disc [issued by the insurance company when you pay your premium] The lack of an MOT doesn't seem to cause many problems, we have very few accidents/injuries/deaths due to defective vehicles.

There's no MOT in Guernsey but you do pay road tax (or you did, in 2002-04 when I was there). But it was a lot less than the UK equivalent. Policing of roadworthy vehicles is performed by the local constabulary via random roadside stops, which increase in frequency around Christmastime. I'd say that the lack of injuries/accidents/deaths is more down to the lower speed limits (25mph in town, 35mph outside) than anything else...As a UK resident on a fixed-term work contract there, I was required to swap my UK licence for a Guernsey one after 12 months - a simple procedure that required a visit to their equivalent of the DVLA. Failure to do this can result in having your UK licence confiscated and being forced to take a Guernsey driving test - this happened to one of my colleagues.Incidentally Guernsey used at that time (and maybe still do) gloriously antiquated, handwritten V5s.Car prices there seem to bottom out at £500 or so (or they did when I was there, going through non-trade methods i.e. the local classifieds!), but new/nearly-new prices are much lower than the mainland, mainly due to the lack of VAT. I nearly bought a brand-new Saab 9-3 2.2TiD when I left for £14k (about £4k less than the UK list). In order to get out of paying import duty and VAT, you need to be able to prove that you owned the car for >6 months in Guernsey, and cannot sell it within 12 months of your return to the mainland. Re-importation is a faff, requiring a UK Certificate of Conformity from the manufacturer in my case, despite the fact the Accord was built in Swindon to UK spec...Due to the size of the island (9 miles by 5) it was not unusual for most people I knew to clock up less than 1000 miles per year, particularly as most people walked to work. All the major manufacturers have a dealership, but Japanese imports (particularly Kei-cars and vans) were very popular, as were LHD supercars (due to the closeness of the islands to France).

[r.welfare]

One oddity of the Channel Islands is the "filter in turn" principle applied to mini roundabouts and other box junctions. In effect, the first person to reach it goes first, then the next person to reach it from another direction, and so on and so on. Bloody good idea when you get used to it, but mostly it really confuses the bluehairs in hire cars

[FredTransit]

How long does the Guernsey license last? Have you got the photocard yet?