Opinions please!

[MrRegieRitmo]

Guys, I've decided I definitely need something modern to take the daily strain. My Renault has been doing an admirable job & it's not a case that it's not coping, it's simply that I'm starting to feel guilty for asking it to do a 60 mile round trip Mon-Fri & I really don't want to run it into the ground. Especially when a member of Joe public reminds me how unusual my daily drive is, for better, or worse! I have to admit, I do miss music in the car & any kind of mod cons & of course my other half is less than complimentary about 'my old heap!' But she knows how much it means to me so she tries not to let her nose point too high in the air when I turn up in it!

 

Anyway, I may be considering a modern car but there are still basic requirements that I simply have to follow. It must never be 'run of the mill', it musn't be on every street, it should be distinctive & ideally sporty and/or powerful. It must not resemble a shopping cart or 'City' car! It must have a respectable image - although not 'up it's own arse' - therefore not German! (I'm saying this because I don't need another shite car, they're my toys, that's the whole point of trying to find something different for daily use!)

 

So, basically there are two cars I wouldn't mind having - 1) post 1996 Mitsubishi Galant 2.0 GLS / GLX / GLDI or 2) Alfa Romeo 146 Ti 2.0

 

Japanese useablity or Italian passion?

[MrRegieRitmo]

For those who can't get a mental image, these are what I'm talking about....

 

This is a very striking car, I love the lines....

 

 

 

But this Alfa is cooking!!....

 

 

They both meet my criteria. They probably have completely different pros & cons, but hey ho!

[Twinspark]

Right..... the 146Ti.Great little cars - the closest thing to a modern Sud you can buy.However.... things to know:1. Cambelts should be done on 36k - 48k miles, despite the manual saying 72k miles. If you're looking at one that's due, you need at least 300 quid off the asking price.2. Depending on the age of it, make sure you get both the burgundy master key and 2 red normal keys. If you don't have the burgundy, you're looking at a bill for a new ECU at nearly a grand, or a 3rd party bodge with a 300 quid alarm / immobiliser. You can, however, duplicate the transponder in the red key, but can't get an aftermarket remote key - Alfa won't give you a new red key without a burgundy key. This does not apply to facelift models.3. Any 'diesel' rattle from cold (even if only for a few seconds) tells you the cam variator is on it's way out- see point 1.4. Listen for knocks and squeeks from the front suspension as they can go through bushes quickly. Not expensive or hard to replace - it's usually the drop-link bushes at fault.5. Finally, any rust signifies accident damage as they're galvanised from new.Actually, just to add.....When you have a potential purchase nice and warm, sit in it and hold the revs. at 2700-2900 rpm. If the engine speed dips to 2200 or so rpm for a few seconds and then recovers, then don't buy it - our 156 is doing this at the moment which is playing hell with the MOT emissions testing kit - we now need to find out which sensor is playing up before it can be used again..... Argh!

[r.welfare]

Oooh, I'm in the minority here, but the Galant has better 'shite' credentials than the 146, which is a lovely soul-stirring machine.Having said that I will stick my head on the line and say that I would expect a Galant (or similar-age Honda Accord) to be more painless to own, if not so emotive. I put 50k on a '99 Accord in just under 2 years and the only issue was a blown bulb in the digital clock. Sold it last September for £1,800 with 67k miles on it, and it was mint. Criminally cheap cars at the moment. If anything Galants are even cheaper, but I understand from my man in the repairing trade that they aren't quite as bulletproof.Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice - but if you found an absolutely-mint 146Ti for the right money, with a cast iron history, you'd be a fool to turn it down.

[wuvvum]

I love the Galant. That front end is so wonderfully aggressive for a family car. One day I will own a VR4. I'd choose the Mitsu over the Alfa for a few reasons: firstly I'm a bit old fashioned and believe that a small Alfa should have a flat-4, so if I had a 146 it'd be an early 1700 Boxer. Secondly there is the reliability issue - I know it sounds like a cliché but Alfas, even relatively modern ones, are not as reliable as Japs. The flip side of course is that if something does go wrong with the Galant it'll cost you an arm and a leg for the bits. The third reason, and this is purely personal, is that I don't particularly like the driving position in the 146. It's not as bad as in the 33, but I find it less comfortable than the Sud, and definitely less comfortable than a Galant, which being Japanese should be ergonomically perfect. Obviously a Galant will be slightly more expensive, but I think it'll be a better investment in the long run. Plus, as someone has already said, it is likely to become shite at some point in the future, and that's what it's all about really...

[Twinspark]

Believe me, you wouldn't want a 146 with the 1.7 boxer. It was a really bad install in the 145/6 and was largely underpowered in comparison to the TSpark lumps.The 33 16v was the pinnacle of Boxer engined Alfas.

[wuvvum]

The 33 16v was the pinnacle of Boxer engined Alfas.

Yep, had one of those. Glorious engine, dreadful gearbox, back-spasm-inducing driving position. I preferred my Sud 1.5 Ti, but there's no denying the 33 was quick, and made a glorious noise thanks to a blown silencer. By the way, what's a Hongdou GY200? Is it one of those Chinese replicas of the Honda XL?

[bigstraight6]

Well, A 60 mile a day hike means an oil burner is needed Any Mercedes Benz diesel will do the job with consummate grace and are indeed favoured by taxi owners the World over, mind you BMW do a rather excellent straight6 diesel also.......

This is the 325TD Mrs BS6 drives, it is a BEAST

[r.welfare]

Or same engine, more comfort, less money = Omega 2.5TD

[MrRegieRitmo]

Thinking about it that comparison may not have been 100% fair because the 2.0 Galant is not as powerful as the Alfa however the 2.5 Galant is probably more so & seeing as there were only 2 engines on the Galant, I can't win!

However I'm not thinking about the 2.5 Galant because although the insurance is around the same as on the Alfa (the 2.0 Galant being a lesser insurance group) it would surely be even thirstier at half a litre bigger even though the Alfa is highly tuned.

 

Perhaps it would turn the situation on it's head if the comparison was with one of these!......I'd gladly disappear into the sunset in one of these never to be seen again. So much more civilised & classy than as Evo yet still carved out of the same rip snorting rally material! Wow what a car!

 

 

[Twinspark]

The 33 16v was the pinnacle of Boxer engined Alfas.

Yep, had one of those. Glorious engine, dreadful gearbox, back-spasm-inducing driving position. I preferred my Sud 1.5 Ti, but there's no denying the 33 was quick, and made a glorious noise thanks to a blown silencer.

 

By the way, what's a Hongdou GY200? Is it one of those Chinese replicas of the Honda XL?

We had a 33 16v and a 1.7IE at the same time, in matching colour.....

 

Yes, the GY200 is a kind of replica of the Honda XL.

 

 

It's 2-wheeled Autoshite.

[mouseflakes]

Galant - just for that shark-nose front end. Great looking car (for a modern).

[MrRegieRitmo]

Yes, it kind of rips off the BMW 5, 6 and 7 series of old in the same way that the Audi 100 Coupe ripped off the Mustang or Aston Martin (I can't remember which!) in the 70s.

 

But in my opinion, in doing so created an even more strikingly aerodynamic shape which actually slants front & back in both directions! It's almost shark nosed AND shark arsed! The best view is definitely side on where the car is unbelievably sleek for a family saloon.

 

Does that mean they went an 'arse about face' way with it?

[mk2_craig]

Mister Regie, the Galant would be the sensible choiceAlfa reliability is miles ahead of what it was in the 1970s/early 1970s but still can't compare to J-engineering.Then again, I can't help but think that you want something like a late 1990s Toymotor Camry (all over the place in Dublin, but practically unspottable in mainland UK) or perhaps even a Hyundai XG30 (tons of toys and probably bulletproof but so nondescript that nobody would know/care what it is and therefore ultracheap motoring and superb Shite credentials).... or Sigma estate?

[Baz]

The Mitsubishi is the sensible choice....So I'd probably go for the Alfa!

 

For the record....I've owned two Alfas....A '99 156 2.0 Twinspark Lusso, and a '90 Spider 2000 Veloce....Both were very reliable, but quite expensive to maintain PROPERLY....But that doesn't matter, because they were the two most BEAUTIFUL and SATISFYING cars I've ever owned!

 

Wish I still had them both!

[tux]

Another vote for the Galant here. Experience dictates that although the Alfa is pretty to look at, you don't buy one unless you wish to sit on the hard shoulder in a cloud of steam and smoke.

[Spottedlaurel]

I've tipped things further in the favour of the Galant, but agree that a pointy-nose 2.2 Camry Sport would also be a good choice.Do be prepared for big parts prices however - pattern parts often don't exist because of the scarcity of models to fit them on, so you're stuck with mean dealer prices - Camry £200 sump pan, £280 rear silencer, for example. Obviously there are ways around both, but it just takes a bit longer or some searching on eBay. Keep your R14 available all the time.......As a compromise, are there no 80's cars that appeal to you? Several Accords like mine on eBay right now, and they can easily take regular use. for example, a 24k miler 3dr in beige, one elderly owner, £250 classified ad and will take an offer (hopefully R-Rer Grizz will go for this).Edit: Lots of other stuff springs to mind, Bluebird Executive maybe?

[pogweasel]

I've tipped things further in the favour of the Galant,

And I've just redressed it.I vote Alfa all the way. Sure it will probably kipper itself in a huge way shortly after purchase leaving you bankrupt, but by christ is it a stylish and fun way to burn money. That Galant thingy, whilst cast-iron futureshite is pretty bland, and I'll bet as interesting to drive as a double-dose of valium.Get the Alfa, listen to it howl and your mind will be made up.I'm groovin' on Alfas right now, espesh as my mate has just aquired a 155 Silverstone off Paul Wakely for the price of a bag of chips.

[Guest]

I like those Galants but I prefer the wagon version (aka Legnum in import form). My problem is that I'd want the VR-4 because I get myself really wound up about trim specs. Nice looking motor though.

 

As for the Alfa, I'd say no to a 146 but yes to a 155 - the prices on them are rock bottom at the moment and they're absolutely fantastic cars. My mate has had a widebody 1.8 TS for about 10 years as a daily driver and the only thing that ever went wrong with it is the battery went flat once.

 

Looks exactly like this one, stunning car, wish I could buy it off him but thanks to the sports suspension I can't get it down my sloping driveway!

 

[wuvvum]

I know I'm contradicting my own advice here, but this is so ridiculously cheap it'd be rude not to.http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBI%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330100030650&rd=1&rd=1

[Baz]

I may be considering a modern car but there are still basic requirements that I simply have to follow. It must never be 'run of the mill', it musn't be on every street, it should be distinctive & ideally sporty and/or powerful. It must not resemble a shopping cart or 'City' car! It must have a respectable image - although not 'up it's own arse' - therefore not German!

Mr.Regie....You haven't specified a budget, but have You considered....

 

 

....They can be had for from a grand (choose carefully!) upwards, and so long as they have service history, and recent cambelt/tensioner change in the case of the Twin-Sparks, make a great buy IMO....Seems to fit all the criteria above anyway....

 

....And if anyone's produced a better-looking four-door saloon, I've never clapped eyes on it!

 

My opinion obviously....

[r.welfare]

Bloody hell, are 156s that cheap these days? Lovely, lovely looking car. 159 looks slab-sided and squinty by comparison.

[MrRegieRitmo]

Wow thanks for the enthusiastic response everyone. Always good to spark a debate, brings everyone to life!

 

Well as far as the other suggestions go, as I said I don't want something common because I haven't owned a common car yet! Even my MkIII Fiesta had to be a rare big bumper Si ! My Budget is upto £2000 but ideally no more than £1500.

 

Yes the 156's are very nice, although for an Alfa they're also very common & I would think that the ones in my budget would be a bit 'bottom of the barrel'?

 

Beemer's, Merc's & Audi's are all very common and also the ones in my budget would be 10+ years old & I wanted something within 10yrs old.

 

As far as it being shite, I suppose I was asking the wrong people because that's what we're all about whereas I was actually looking for as modern, cool, unshite, most socially acceptable car I could possibly get for the money. I don't need a shiter because I'm trying to preserve the one's I've got by not using them everyday hence the search for something decent that can take the strain!

 

I've hand picked the two best examples of the cars I was looking at from Auto Trader, what do you think, objectively, on these particular two & can you highlight why either of these are good / bad choices? This time I'm talking about these particular two rather than Galant's & 146's in general because I may well go ahead with one of these unless there's a very good reason not to! Thanks

 

Galant

 

146

[MrRegieRitmo]

FAO: MouseflakesTim, That Alfa I've highlighted is at a dealership in Bristol! Sensing de ja vu! Feel I could end up looking at it when we go to my nan's next week!Know anything about Colin Ludwell Cars? I.e. where they are in relation to things, whether I should touch them with a barge pole, etc?Also if this is the "right" car for me do you think I should be ok to ask to see it next weekend or should I do something about it before then? Do they have a high turnover (assuming you know them!)?Thanks in anticipation.Richard

[mk2_craig]

I was actually looking for as modern, cool, unshite, most socially acceptable car I could possibly get for the money.

In that case you might as well buy a Mondeo. Dirt cheap for anything over about six years old, millions around so scrapyard parts supply is easy, and nothing really goes wrong with them. Save for the egg-shell thin bumpers, iffy rear light seals and front lower arms that need replacing more often than the spark plugs.Clutch is apparently a bitch of a job on a manual, though

[r.welfare]

A quick comment - if your budget is £1,500, you'll get much better value if you buy from a private seller. I would have thought a dealer's markup (i.e. the difference between what he gave in part-exchange and what he's got it up at) would be as much as £500. Far better to find the private seller who's been offered a grand p/ex from his dealer, and offer £1,100...I should also have thought that any warranty on a £1,500 motor from a dealer ain't going to be particularly comprehensive...

[MrRegieRitmo]

Don't shoot me down, but just incase - for the uninitiated - click the words above in red (Galant, 146) & it'll open up what I'm talking about!

[mk2_craig]

That Galant admittedly does look pretty nice and with any luck should never go wrong. But if it does then you may find difficulty in sourcing replacement parts, not much call for them therefore spares are expensive!

[MrRegieRitmo]

Right..... the 146Ti.Great little cars - the closest thing to a modern Sud you can buy.However.... things to know:1. Cambelts should be done on 36k - 48k miles, despite the manual saying 72k miles. If you're looking at one that's due, you need at least 300 quid off the asking price.2. Depending on the age of it, make sure you get both the burgundy master key and 2 red normal keys. If you don't have the burgundy, you're looking at a bill for a new ECU at nearly a grand, or a 3rd party bodge with a 300 quid alarm / immobiliser. You can, however, duplicate the transponder in the red key, but can't get an aftermarket remote key - Alfa won't give you a new red key without a burgundy key. This does not apply to facelift models.3. Any 'diesel' rattle from cold (even if only for a few seconds) tells you the cam variator is on it's way out- see point 1.4. Listen for knocks and squeeks from the front suspension as they can go through bushes quickly. Not expensive or hard to replace - it's usually the drop-link bushes at fault.5. Finally, any rust signifies accident damage as they're galvanised from new.Actually, just to add.....When you have a potential purchase nice and warm, sit in it and hold the revs. at 2700-2900 rpm. If the engine speed dips to 2200 or so rpm for a few seconds and then recovers, then don't buy it - our 156 is doing this at the moment which is playing hell with the MOT emissions testing kit - we now need to find out which sensor is playing up before it can be used again..... Argh!

Twinspark, what do you reckon to this one? Could this be a 'good'un'?http://www.colinludwellcars.co.uk/vehicle-details.asp?new=&region=&order=&Model=&Make=&notMake=&notModel=&BodyType=&FuelType=&Transmission=&intMin=&intMax=&RSpage=1&ID=225786&popup=

[Twinspark]

Hard to tell from photographs, but initial impressions:It's a facelift model, which is good, they look a bit more up to date than the earlier ones.It has aircon, which I say is essential in a daily driver these days.It's Alfa red, the best colour for one of those.They say it has service history.Things to check:The 'Tipo clonk' from the front suspension - usually indicates worn drop-link bushes. Cheap and easy to fix, but don't tell the dealer Cambelt changes. Despite what the service book says, this should be done on 36k miles, not 72k. Or 3 years, not 5. If it was done on schedule at 72k miles, you only have 8k miles left on it. You'll be wanting £300 off to have it done properly, or have it done before buying. Make sure that it gets tensioners, both the cambelt and balance shaft belt and a variator.The variator.... if it clatters like a diesel when started from cold (make sure the dealer doesn't know you're on your way to look at it....) then the variator needs replacing. This controls the variable timing. It doesn't usually damage anything when it fails, but it makes the car sound like a shonky old diesel and you'll be missing a chunk of power. Even if it only does it for a few seconds, you'll want money off to get it fixed, as it will eventually fail - which is why you always replace them when you do the cambelt.Other stuff.... any sign of rust means it has been cheaply repaired after a scrape / accident - they're very well galvanised, so I've never seen a rusty one that hasn't had a repair.Make sure *all* the electrics work, including alarm and aircon.Don't get overly worried if it only has one key - you can get duplicates from Alfa, but they're not cheap - £200 off the asking if a key is missing, though.Erm, that's about it.I'd have offered to help you check it out if it wasn't for the fact that I have to collect my 75 this weekend. Shame I'm not doing my Bristol store visits until sometime next week, really.